Do you believe...

[SHANMAC]

I believe non-believers will be separated from God, which has been called "hell." I also believe that all non-believers will be given a chance to believe at some point(s) in their lifetime.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Not to pick at symantics but is there another definition you can put forth for eternity than a reference to time?

S3V3N

Well, not to answer for him, but to me eternal can mean something besides "for eternity." God is eternal right? So his punishment could be said to be "eternal punishment" because it is God's punishment. Eternal could very well be referring to the fact that it is punishment from God. Who says this has to be punishment that lasts for eternity?

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.
7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.
10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—
11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.
12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

 

[TheKnight]

In this Jew's opinion, there is no hell, at least as such is commonly depicted in western culture.

There is, however, a final Judgment. Let's take a worst case scenario. If a soul is completely evil, that the person treated others with malice and hatred their entire life, atheist or non-believer or believer notwithstanding, then that soul is destroyed. Which is an eternal punishment, even without a place of eternal torture (which is the common concept of hell).

Do you see what I mean? A punishment can be of eternal consequence?

Not only that. But a person who lived their life steeped in evil and wickedness would only be destroyed if they had NEVER done one good deed.

I don't believe that such a person exists that has never done one good deed.

 

[s3v3n]

Well, not to answer for him, but to me eternal can mean something besides "for eternity." God is eternal right? So his punishment could be said to be "eternal punishment" because it is God's punishment. Eternal could very well be referring to the fact that it is punishment from God. Who says this has to be punishment that lasts for eternity?

You're using one thing to support another by calling it something else. God is eternal, so god's punishment is eternal, so when we say eternal we're not specifically talking about eternity being a measurement of time....But aren't you splitting the hair too finely? "I am alpha and omega the beginning and the end", "In the beginning...", etc...also, you're assuming facts not yet in evidence. You assumed I'm conceding that god is eternal, I'll concede scripture as evidence in this discussion because there otherwise we just get to exchange dictionary definitions. But if we are conceding scripture, the first and last passages of scripture dispute your claim of eternity. Beginning, alpha, eternity doesn't begin, omega, end, eternity doesn't end. If you take away the context of time, what remains but conflicting definitions of the reference?

s3v3n

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

You're using one thing to support another by calling it something else. God is eternal, so god's punishment is eternal, so when we say eternal we're not specifically talking about eternity being a measurement of time....But aren't you splitting the hair too finely? "I am alpha and omega the beginning and the end", "In the beginning...", etc...also, you're assuming facts not yet in evidence. You assumed I'm conceding that god is eternal, I'll concede scripture as evidence in this discussion because there otherwise we just get to exchange dictionary definitions. But if we are conceding scripture, the first and last passages of scripture dispute your claim of eternity. Beginning, alpha, eternity doesn't begin, omega, end, eternity doesn't end. If you take away the context of time, what remains but conflicting definitions of the reference?

s3v3n

Well, I suppose I did make some assumptions. With my limited understanding, I take alpha and omega as being eternal. I don't believe there ever was a beginning, or that there will ever be an end. So for me, the beginning and the end means forever. It's like interval notation. His domain is (-oo, oo), he never ends. If he encompasses the beginning and end of eternity, he himself must be eternal. That's just my view. If you want I could pursue the idea further. But it might bore you.

 

[Mister Emu]

I tend to believe that we all end up eternally in God's presence, for some of us this is bliss, for others torment.

 

[Madhuri]

I tend to believe that we all end up eternally in God's presence, for some of us this is bliss, for others torment.

That's a unique view. Would you mind explaining it more? I'm very interested

 

[Zardoz]

Not only that. But a person who lived their life steeped in evil and wickedness would only be destroyed if they had NEVER done one good deed.

I don't believe that such a person exists that has never done one good deed.

According to our traditions, this is exactly what happened to the generation of the flood.

Also, remember that the good deeds of the wicked are rewarded in this life, not the world to come. That is why the wicked sometimes seem to be blessed.

 

[TheKnight]

According to our traditions, this is exactly what happened to the generation of the flood.

Also, remember that the good deeds of the wicked are rewarded in this life, not the world to come. That is why the wicked sometimes seem to be blessed.

Hmm, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I think, when it comes to matters of the afterlife, that it is best to say we don't know. After all, we don't.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

According to our traditions, this is exactly what happened to the generation of the flood.

Also, remember that the good deeds of the wicked are rewarded in this life, not the world to come. That is why the wicked sometimes seem to be blessed.

I would claim that the wicked receive their just reward in this life. I posit that if this life was it, righteousness would still be worth it.

 

[Mister Emu]

That's a unique view.

It isn't truly. It is the teachings of the Eastern Church(Orthodox and Eastern Rite Catholic).

Would you mind explaining it more? I'm very interested

Certainly, though I fear I might not do it proper justice. Being in God's presence is being immersed in God's love eternally... those who love God will find the experience as joy, bliss, whatever... those who hate God will experience this as torment. At least in my understanding.

Imagine, if you will, two children about to be visited by an affectionate grandmother. When she comes in she hugs them, kisses them, maybe pinches a cheek . They spend the weekend with her, going to eat, seeing a movie, at the park, etc.

One child loves being with his grandmother, finds happiness in spending time with his family, he would have gone to the movies, the park, gone to meals with her even had his mother not required it. His weekend was one of joy.

The other child wants nothing to do with spending time with his grandmother, he wants only to get away from her. Even though dinner had been at some of his favourite restaraunts, the movie was one he had been wanting to see, and the park was one of his beloved places, it was a miserable experience because he was forced to be with her.

Kind of like that, but in the extreme.

Alternately:
Hell in Christian beliefs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

According to the Baha'i scriptures Heaven is the spiritual state of nearness to God; hell is spiritual separation. (Some Christian churches teach this exact same thing, please note.)

We all go to the same Next Life, and our circumstances there are the direct result of our own choices and actions, and in particular whether we've acquired the virtues we need both here and then! (Indeed, acquisition of these is one of our purposes in this life, the other being <in aggregate> to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization.)

(Also, please note that Heaven and hell exist here and now as well as after death, and we're in one or the other at every moment as a function of "where our heads are at!")

Please note that our circumstances then are our own doing, not some externally-imposed "judgement" by God! (This is a consequence of the free will He's given us.)

But our scriptures also assure us that even those who have placed themselves into the worst sort of hell will be assisted by God eventually to draw nearer to Him, ultimately also achieving Heaven!

To quote Shakespeare, "'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished!"

Best,

Bruce

 

[Gentoo]

that atheists and non-believers of your religions will got to hell (or an equivalent)? Furthermore, do you believe that their punishment will be eternal?

No and no.

 

[Atreyu]

I like Ann Rice's version of Heaven and Hell in the book Memnoch the Devil, although I still have a few pages left to read.

 

[Herr Heinrich]

that atheists and non-believers of your religions will got to hell (or an equivalent)? Furthermore, do you believe that their punishment will be eternal?

Hell is a state of the mind. We create our own hell and heaven. So it could go either way for both believers and non-believers.

 

[Herr Heinrich]

Greetings!

According to the Baha'i scriptures Heaven is the spiritual state of nearness to God; hell is spiritual separation. (Some Christian churches teach this exact same thing, please note.)

We all go to the same Next Life, and our circumstances there are the direct result of our own choices and actions, and in particular whether we've acquired the virtues we need both here and then! (Indeed, acquisition of these is one of our purposes in this life, the other being <in aggregate> to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization.)

(Also, please note that Heaven and hell exist here and now as well as after death, and we're in one or the other at every moment as a function of "where our heads are at!")

Please note that our circumstances then are our own doing, not some externally-imposed "judgement" by God! (This is a consequence of the free will He's given us.)

But our scriptures also assure us that even those who have placed themselves into the worst sort of hell will be assisted by God eventually to draw nearer to Him, ultimately also achieving Heaven!

To quote Shakespeare, "'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished!"

Best,

Bruce

I love you Bruce!:foryou: For some reason it just seems(to me) like you come out of nowhere. It makes me chuckle.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I love you Bruce!:foryou: For some reason it just seems(to me) like you come out of nowhere. It makes me chuckle.

Not at all!

I assure you: I'm right here!


Bruce

 

[Herr Heinrich]

Not at all!

I assure you: I'm right here!


Bruce

:biglaugh:

 

[Muffled]

that atheists and non-believers of your religions will got to hell (or an equivalent)? Furthermore, do you believe that their punishment will be eternal?

I believe that atheists would have great difficulty escaping Hell but it could happen. I think people who believe in another religion have a better opportunity to escape Hell especially Muslims who believe in the end of the world. (It is a major precept for them) Jews also have an end time concept.

Time does not exist in hell. That does not mean that there is utterly no hope of escape from it.

PS: There is a second alternative to Hell and the Kingdom of God and that is limitless space. Space is also timeless. I suppose the disembodied spirits could hang around the Holy City until it descends and thereby return to time but there would be no hope of re-incarnation since no children will be born in the Kingdom of God. However if being cast into "outer darkness" means so far out that there aren't any star systems nearby, then it would be similar to Hell in the fact that it would be timeless and offer very little hope of escape. I think that concept relies on the possibility that the material universe is not infinite.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

I believe that atheists would have great difficulty escaping Hell but it could happen. I think people who believe in another religion have a better opportunity to escape Hell especially Muslims who believe in the end of the world. (It is a major precept for them) Jews also have an end time concept.

Time does not exist in hell. That does not mean that there is utterly no hope of escape from it.

PS: There is a second alternative to Hell and the Kingdom of God and that is limitless space. Space is also timeless. I suppose the disembodied spirits could hang around the Holy City until it descends and thereby return to time but there would be no hope of re-incarnation since no children will be born in the Kingdom of God. However if being cast into "outer darkness" means so far out that there aren't any star systems nearby, then it would be similar to Hell in the fact that it would be timeless and offer very little hope of escape. I think that concept relies on the possibility that the material universe is not infinite.

What do you think of their punishment? will they burn, be tortured in hell? Do you know of any friends or close family of yours whom you believe will go to hell?