Do you believe in reincarnation ???

[Guitar's Cry]

I disagree strongly with this statement, you have nothing to prove this assertion.

You're right, I don't. But I can assume from behavior that they have an awareness of existing. Beyond that, is anything else needed for consciousness?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Yes, the awareness of their surroundings of humans and dogs is much different.

But this is an assumption. And to me, this doesn't equate to consciousness. Rather--as I said in my last post--it is awareness of existence that is needed, not just of surroundings.

Then, this also depends on how we define "surroundings," doesn't it? Where does awareness of self end and awareness of surroundings begin?

 

[MaddLlama]

Yes, the awareness of their surroundings of humans and dogs is much different.

How much awareness is necessary for "consciousness"? How do you define "consciousness", and is there any precedent or evidence for your definition? Is there a reason that definition is the only correct one?

 

[YmirGF]

How much awareness is necessary for "consciousness"? How do you define "consciousness", and is there any precedent or evidence for your definition? Is there a reason that definition is the only correct one?

Not likely, ML, but I am dying to hear the esteemed opinion.

 

[logician]

"How much awareness is necessary for conciousness"? How do you define "consciousness",




From the dictionary - consciousness:

The state of being conscious; awareness of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc. "


Homo sapiens thinks in terms of language, dogs and other animals don't. Certainly unicelluar life and other lower forms are not aware of their existence and higher animal forms are not from a contemplative point of view. There's a vast difference.

 

[MaddLlama]

"How much awareness is necessary for conciousness"? How do you define "consciousness",




From the dictionary - consciousness:

The state of being conscious; awareness of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc. "


Homo sapiens thinks in terms of language, dogs and other animals don't. Certainly unicelluar life and other lower forms are not aware of their existence and higher animal forms are not from a contemplative point of view. There's a vast difference.

How are animals not aware of their surroundings, sensations, or existence, and how does one determine what animals are thinking? Just because animals cannot communicate with humans or other species? Most animals have some form of communication. Your assertion seems to be that because animals don't act like humans, they must be less intelligent, and I think that's a narrow and unscientific view.
There may be a difference in the way humans and other animals think, but that doesn't mean that only humans experience consciousness.

Sometimes, it amazes me how some atheists who put so much stock in science are simply incapable of thinking outside of the box.

 

[YmirGF]

How are animals not aware of their surroundings, sensations, or existence, and how does one determine what animals are thinking? Just because animals cannot communicate with humans or other species, most animals have some form of communication. Your assertion seems to be that because animals don't act like humans, they must be less intelligent, and I think that's a narrow and unscientific view.
There may be a difference in the way humans and other animals think, but that doesn't mean that only humans experience consciousness.

Sometimes, it amazes me how some atheists who put so much stock in science are simply incapable of thinking outside of the box.

Oh come now, Ms. Llama, if it doesn't chat to humans and moan about the daily "soaps" by the water-cooler, then it is most obviously as thick as a post and not worthy of being called "conscious". I guess our illogical Logician has never had a pet or observed animals to any degree. Pity... Given that we cannot, in our vast genius, communicate with animals and they cannot communicate with us beyond that minor detail called "emotional bond" it is a bit presumptuous of us to think they do not identify with a singular sense of self. We simply do not know, period. Next argument?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

How are animals not aware of their surroundings, sensations, or existence, and how does one determine what animals are thinking? Just because animals cannot communicate with humans or other species, most animals have some form of communication. Your assertion seems to be that because animals don't act like humans, they must be less intelligent, and I think that's a narrow and unscientific view.
There may be a difference in the way humans and other animals think, but that doesn't mean that only humans experience consciousness.

Agreed. Although there are times when I question this when I see my dog eat his own excrement. :cover:




Peace,
Mystic

 

[MaddLlama]

Next argument?

Some people who profess to be atheists and place a high value on science don't know diddly squat about science (or logic) in the first place.

 

[YmirGF]

Some people who profess to be atheists and place a high value on science don't know diddly squat about science (or logic) in the first place.

Fascinating ain't it?

 

[cardero]

Originally Posted by logician
"How much awareness is necessary for conciousness"? How do you define "consciousness",




From the dictionary - consciousness:

The state of being conscious; awareness of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc. "


Homo sapiens thinks in terms of language, dogs and other animals don't. Certainly unicelluar life and other lower forms are not aware of their existence and higher animal forms are not from a contemplative point of view. There's a vast difference.

Maddllama writes: How are animals not aware of their surroundings, sensations, or existence, and how does one determine what animals are thinking? Just because animals cannot communicate with humans or other species, most animals have some form of communication. Your assertion seems to be that because animals don't act like humans, they must be less intelligent, and I think that's a narrow and unscientific view.
There may be a difference in the way humans and other animals think, but that doesn't mean that only humans experience consciousness.

Sometimes, it amazes me how some atheists who put so much stock in science are simply incapable of thinking outside of the box.

I feel a "Do Animals Have Souls" discussion brewing.

 

[Katzpur]

Oops, I accidently voted wrong...

I don't believe in reincarnation...

Whew!

Could a mod fix that thx...

PM one of the super mods or admins, FFH. I'd fix it for you, but I'm not able to.

 

[FFH]

PM one of the super mods or admins, FFH. I'd fix it for you, but I'm not able to.

Even the admins can't change it, Sunstone already tried, he changed my vote, but he can't move my unsername..

Maybe the new onwers can, but I don't want to bug them or Todd, since he seems very busy, but would probably do it if I asked him to...

 

[shadow_fire]

No. I'm an atheist and I believe when you die...you die....the end ^_^

 

[FFH]

No. I'm an atheist and I believe when you die...you die....the end ^_^

Wow, very sad to think this way, I would think...

No doubt you will be surprised when you find yourelf still very much alive when your mortal body dies and your spirit lives on throughout the eternities, later to be reunited with a perfect body, a free gift to all mortal beings, provided by Christ's sacrifice, in which he overcame death and hell..

I have seen a demon, who will never have a physical body, just a spirit body; and have also seen an angel (a resurrected exalted being) for a fraction of a second their images came before my eyes, and they both had perfect faces, yes even the demon, better looking than nearly every male face I've seen on this earth. The resurected being/angel I saw was female and had the most beautiful female face.

There are some beautiful male and female faces on this earth, which are similar, and near perfection, to the ones I saw.

 

[shadow_fire]

Wow, very sad...

No doubt you will be surprised when you find yourelf still very much alive when you mortal body dies and your spirit lives on throughout the eternities.

Not sad at all my friend, hence the cute happy face.

With death comes nothing, you can not perceive happiness or sadness, you are nothing you do not exist. It is the ultimate peace, peace of mind, peace of thought. Life is chaos, and when it ends comes peace.

Too bad when you die you wont be able to perceive how your incorrect ^_^

 

[FFH]

Not sad at all my friend, hence the cute happy face

Yeah, I saw the happy face, and also believe this life is no good, for the most part, so death will be a welcome relief, but life will go on, throughout the eternities, far better and much greater than this one, eventually, for all of us.

Many will have to pass through many sorrows, though, to get to their eventual reward...

With death comes nothing, you can not perceive happiness or sadness, you are nothing you do not exist. It is the ultimate peace, peace of mind, peace of thought. Life is chaos, and when it ends comes peace.

Death is not like sleep, you are still very much alive and conscious of your existance...

We have always existed. There is no beginning or ending of our being.

Too bad when you die you wont be able to perceive how your incorrect ^_^

^_^ funny ^_^

I don't really believe that you really believe this..

Convince me you really believe this...

 

[FFH]

Life goes on after death.

Here are some life after death (NDE) accounts as well as some encounters with resurrected beings, while still alive.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To Remind Me of a Mother's Love Robyn [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Soldier in the Night Bonnie McPhail[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Father's Day with my Dad, "St. Pompeii"[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Herbie J. Pilato[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Seashells and Pearls Zana Cvjetkovic[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Remember Love Eric S.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Life, Jesus, and Fred Mary P.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Breath of New Life Dennis Kelly[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm Fine, I'm Happy Now Jeff McKay and Catherine Hall[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Daddy's Touch P.C.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Lord Had Better Plans [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]J K Langan[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A World So Near [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sandy Holte[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Oklahoma" Surprise [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]J.M.B.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Gratitude for "Embraced" [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Virginia Harris[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My Pepere [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ken Landry[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Other Side of the Bed [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Liz Weyhknecht [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Angel Escort[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Bruce Breauxam[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Meant To Be, Part 2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sandy Dollar Griffin[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To Praise Him [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tim Hill[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quest For Love [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]L.P.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Precious Truth [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tina Kettler[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pennies From Destiny [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Brenda Burnett[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jesus On A Cloud [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Angela Cloyd[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Greater Power [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Melissa Bellaire[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Heavenly High [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]David D.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Two Beloved Dads [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Carol and RW[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My Son Saw The Light [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kim K. Wood[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My Memories of Heaven [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Marilyn Williams[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]His Secret Place [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lynell F.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Awakened By My Mom [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kallie K.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Beautiful Place[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Joan Rae[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Two Who Slip Away [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]B. Langman and Lourdes Casas[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Three With Embraced [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tracy Dankmyer, Dan, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and Carole Lynne McCormick[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]An End to Sadness [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Abagail[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Worried No More[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] L.H.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Living and The Dead Judy[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One LastTime Omahama[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He Was Really There Nanci J. Volz[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My Testimony Donald D. Lewis[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He Never Forgets! Niina Jensen[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Homesick Kim E.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He's with Me Peggy C.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Meant To Be Sandy Dollar Griffin[/FONT]

From this page: Heavenly Encounters

From this website: Embraced By The Light: The Official Betty J. Eadie Web Site

 

[FFH]

Comfort Unending Jane M.
Sacred Paths Two Wolf Dancing
The Big Us Joan Fountain
A Skeptic Receives Assurance L.M.
A Sign from Mother from The Ripple Effect
Jim's Visit Laurel Stark
My Spiritual Journey with Billy Anne W.
And Then They Danced! Carolyn Murphy
The Front Walk Marilyn Zelinsky Syarto
An Angel Among the Azaleas Carol Ruth Resch
No More Tears for Becky from The Ripple Effect
"Mammy" from The Ripple Effect
A Motorcycle Ride to Heaven William Hays
My Baby and The Angel S.B.
Peace and Perfume Diane G.
Visiting Mom G.H.
An Eighty-foot Fall Into Heaven from The Ripple Effect
One Tough Angel Annie
A Heavenly Chapel Janet R.
Healing Hands Phyllis Thomasa Mangrum
"It's all right now, Babe." Carol Christopher
The Most Sweetest Kiss R.L.H.
A Bubble of Perfect Love Linda F.

 

[cardero]

Even the admins can't change it, Sunstone already tried, he changed my vote, but he can't move my unsername..

Maybe the new onwers can, but I don't want to bug them or Todd, since he seems very busy, but would probably do it if I asked him to...

Ha Ha, you believe in reincarnation...um sort of. So if you did FFH, what would you like to come back as?