Do Muslims practice their own form of idol worship?

[Aštra’el]

No learn your history, one of the greatest duties of jihad is to destroy shirk (or what muslims deem as shirk, since they practice their own form of it). It is not individuals or whatever, it is part and parcel of the faith. This is why no places of worship aside from Islam are allowed in SA.

Despite how I might personally feel about it, I also understand that the destruction and culling of other peoples and cultures has been historically proven to be a potentially incredibly effective method in spreading a particular spiritual-religious system and culture.

 

[MD]

Despite how I might personally feel about it, I also understand that the destruction and culling of other peoples and cultures has been historically proven to be a potentially incredibly effective method in spreading a particular spiritual-religious system and culture.

I agree, but it's temporary. Truth is always greater than victory, even if it takes thousands of years to come out.

 

[Godobeyer]

It's holly place,exactly as Jerusalem too, we don't worship it.
it's all about praying practice orientation place, if you don't know orientation,pray to whatever you want .

 

[FearGod]

"Umar looked towards the black stone at Mecca and said 'By Allah, I know that thou art only a stone, and canst grant no benefit, canst do no harm. If I had not known that the Prophet kissed thee, I would not have done so, but on account of that, I do it.'" - Sahih Muslim, Sahih Bukhari Mishkat III, pg 604.

And Umar was ashamed to ask the prophet of the reason that he kissed the stone.

I wonder that such stories are believable to you while others aren't!

 

[FearGod]

You bow everyday, 5 times a day to it. That is not worship? Even if not worship, it is a symbol. That symbol is supposed to be a connection to Allah for some reason. It is associated with Allah. Also it was a pagan temple. How is it not shirk?

How I bow to Kaaba, if I pray in India towards Kaaba, then how that means I'm bowing
to Kaaba, what about all the things all the way between me and the Kaaba, I wonder how
you understand it that if praying towards Kaaba which can be thousands kilometers away
means bowing to the Kaaba.

 

[FearGod]

No it was always a pagan place. Even if it was built by Abraham, bowing to it gives a sense of symbolism with Allah.

It's a direction, what about if we're in a mosque and every one chose to pray in
different and several directions, can't you realize how crazy it would be,
It's all about a good plan, even the way of arranging the rows is well planned,
like everything in this universe is well planned.

 

[psychoslice]

Despite how I might personally feel about it, I also understand that the destruction and culling of other peoples and cultures has been historically proven to be a potentially incredibly effective method in spreading a particular spiritual-religious system and culture.

That maybe so, but it certainly would not be a spiritual religion, the spirit within wouldn't allow that to happen, it would have to be a religion of hate to even think that way.

 

[FearGod]

Nice strawman, either stick to the topic or go find another thread.

Telling facts is strawman to you, No wonder that you think that Muslims
are praying to Kaaba and the quran.

 

[FearGod]

Agreed, I would argue that idolatry is essential to human species, it might be genetic. It gives a material essence to a non material idea. I think flags themselves are a form of idols, as they represent nation states which are in part non physical ideas.

I bring up my point because Islam claims it does not practice idolatry and that idolatry is the gravest of sins. This has been used throughout history as a motivator for Islamic wars of expansion and conquest.

Even now it happens, with the destruction of the ancient cities by ISIS, to blowing up the Buddha statues by the Taliban. Pakistanis are brainwashed through state propaganda that India is a land of idolators, and this happens in other Muslim states as well like Indonesia. These are extremely dangerous ideas, as they are brainwashing generations to hate others for no reason but their religious practice. Imagine hundreds of millions of Muslim children, taught to dislike someone others because they have idols. Pakistan is a prime example of this.

If I can somehow illustrate that idolatry is common in the Muslim world, I would hope it would decrease the fanatic ideal that they do not practice idolatry.

But the problem that Muslims don't really worship idols, believe it or not.

If in a case we buy Kaaba figures and pray towards it then at that moment
I'll agree with you, but the way it's, it can never be.

 

[Rival]

And Umar was ashamed to ask the prophet of the reason that he kissed the stone.

I wonder that such stories are believable to you while others aren't!

I never said I believed it, but it's there and it deserved to be posted.

 

[Aštra’el]

That maybe so, but it certainly would not be a spiritual religion

A history that includes destruction and violence, or the potential to be used for destruction and violence, does not exclude a religion from being "spiritual".

Spiritual

-of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit

-of or relating to sacred matters

-concerned with religious values

-related or joined in spirit

-of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena

Do you define "spiritual" differently?

it would have to be a religion of hate to even think that way.

Why?

There are actions and there are intentions. The intent behind violent or destructive actions is not always hate. Even when it is, the reasons behind that hate might actually be understandable, if you are willing to look at things from someone else's perspective.

Human Nature is complicated. Things are not all white and black as they might sometimes seem.

 

[FearGod]

I never said I believed it, but it's there and it deserved to be posted.

I think a clever person can easily realize that the story doesn't make sense, because
Umar is a very smart and brave man, he can ask the prophet for the reason once he saw
him kissing the stone than being surprised later on for the reason of kissing the stone.

 

[psychoslice]

A history that includes destruction and violence, or the potential to be used for destruction and violence, does not exclude a religion from being "spiritual".

Spiritual

-of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit

-of or relating to sacred matters

-concerned with religious values

-related or joined in spirit

-of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena

Do you define "spiritual" differently?



Why?

There are actions and there are intentions. The intent behind violent or destructive actions is not always hate. Even when it is, the reasons behind that hate might actually be understandable, if you are willing to look at things from someone else's perspective.

Human Nature is complicated. Things are not all white and black as they might sometimes seem.

True Spirituality isn't found in dictionaries or even scripture, its found within each one of us, dogma and fundamentalism isn't being Spiritual at all, I would guess that probably at least 90% of religions are not truly Spiritual, they are nothing but organisations, with no Spirit within them at all, they are in fact dead.

 

[Aštra’el]

True Spirituality isn't found in dictionaries or even scripture, its found within each one of us, dogma and fundamentalism isn't being Spiritual at all, I would guess that probably at least 90% of religions are not truly Spiritual, they are nothing but organisations, with no Spirit within them at all, they are in fact dead.

How then do you define "spirituality"?

 

[psychoslice]

How then do you define "spirituality"?

Through first hand experience, its the only way, any other is hearsay, its only second hand knowledge.

 

[Aštra’el]

Through first hand experience, its the only way, any other is hearsay, its only second hand knowledge.

You are telling me how to find spirituality, but that is not what I am asking you. I am asking you, what is spirituality?

 

[psychoslice]

You are telling me how to find spirituality, but that is not what I am asking you. I am asking you, what is spirituality?

The name is just that, a name, in itself it really means nothing, it cannot be reduced to a mere concept, the name points to that which IS..........so I cannot tell you what the name is.

 

[MD]

So long as they don't attribute divinity to the item, I don't see why you should conflate extreme reverence and worship.

I am aware that in English the terms can be synonymous, but that's a characteristic of English and doesn't detract from the fact that they also have meaning that are not synonymous.

How is a book that is supposed to be eternal, not attributing some form of divinity to it? The Quran and Allah are both meant to be eternal and infallible, thus they have some qualities that overlap.

A stone which is supposed to be a nexus point or whatever for prayer, has some divinity attached to it. How can we decide which meanings are meant to be synonymous and which are not?

 

[Tumah]

How is a book that is supposed to be eternal, not attributing some form of divinity to it? The Quran and Allah are both meant to be eternal and infallible, thus they have some qualities that overlap.

Apparently this is a belief specific to Sunni Muslims. You'll have to take it up with them to have them explain their belief.

But again, have you ever heard a Muslim say, "O Qur'an please save me from the kuffar on RF!"

A stone which is supposed to be a nexus point or whatever for prayer, has some divinity attached to it.

That's not called ascribing divinity to it. They don't pray to the Kaaba, they pray towards it. They aren't asking the Kaaba to help them, they have a belief that their prayers to G-d are more effective there or whatever it is.

How can we decide which meanings are meant to be synonymous and which are not?

I don't know. I guess that's going to be a problem you're going to have to work out. In other languages these words are not synonymous.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

The enemies of Islam might think this is idolworship.
But muslims knows the black stone is a creation, it cannot benefit us and neither harm us.
It cannot give us children, etc etc

When Umar(the Crusher of Crusaders and Persian pagans),who is hated much by the Shia Polytheists, kissed the black stone he said: i know this is just a stone, it cannot benefit me and nor harm me. Had i not seen the prophet pbuh kiss the stone, i would have never kissed it!

It is for the enemy of islam to proof that we worship the stone.

By proof it means we call upon the stone. We make supplications in the name of the stone. We believe it has powers. All these proofs must come from the enemy of islam.


Its laughable that an hindu who worships so many idols and worships even the faeces of cows wants to accuse us of idolworship.
If the black stone is idolworship because we use that as direction(qiblah) of prayers then so too the Jews fall upon shirk(polytheism) for using the wall as direction of prayers.