Do atheist's believe in psychic abilities?

[Inky]

I personally don't believe in psychic phenomena. If anyone had been able to get consistent results in favor of some psychic ability, time after time, in someone else's lab in a double-blind study, they would be ridiculously famous right now and Science magazine would devote an entire issue to it. I just don't buy that people keep proving it and everyone keeps ignoring them.

That said, I do think it's possible to develop a very good sense of empathy and nonverbal signals that can make someone appear to be reading a subject's mind, when really what they're doing is continuing when the subject's face says "right" and changing course when it says "wrong". That probably counts for a good deal of the seeming psychic phenomena that go on.

 

[rojse]

I personally don't believe in psychic phenomena. If anyone had been able to get consistent results in favor of some psychic ability, time after time, in someone else's lab in a double-blind study, they would be ridiculously famous right now and Science magazine would devote an entire issue to it. I just don't buy that people keep proving it and everyone keeps ignoring them.

That said, I do think it's possible to develop a very good sense of empathy and nonverbal signals that can make someone appear to be reading a subject's mind, when really what they're doing is continuing when the subject's face says "right" and changing course when it says "wrong". That probably counts for a good deal of the seeming psychic phenomena that go on.

I posted this previously, not sure if you read it or not.

Actually, I think there is something there that should be investigated, but I don't think it can provide repeatable, predictable and demonstratable results.

Most claims about this don't really earn my attention, but when institutions like Sony (the same company that makes game consoles and electronic equipment) announces after seven years research in their ESPER (Extra Sensory Perception Excitation Research) that the phenomena actually exists, but can not be used in a commerically viable manner, I do sit up and take notice.

It's hard to find a credible information source about this one, but this was the best that I could do: http://www.mindreader.com/articles/Fate0196.doc. Fortunately, it does reference several more credible newspapers in it's article.

And no, I don't credit the people that claim to have psychic visions or tell the future. If people could tell the future, they would be winning a fortune at the racetrack each week.

 

[DarkMaster24]

i don't.

 

[Minor-Royal]

Well the police and oil companies employ them from time to time, im not say that proves anything but there may be somthing to it.
If there is anything to it though, it will likely have a scientific explanation which will be found in due course.
For my money however i reckon 95 percent of it all is pure trickery.

 

[Storm]

Well the police and oil companies employ them from time to time, im not say that proves anything but there may be somthing to it.
If there is anything to it though, it will likely have a scientific explanation which will be found in due course.
For my money however i reckon 95 percent of it all is pure trickery.

I agree.

 

[Inky]

I posted this previously, not sure if you read it or not.

I did read that, and it's actually a good example of what I was talking about. If Sony had found conclusive evidence for ESP that stands up to scientific rigor, we'd be hearing about it on the front page of every major newspaper in the world (or we would have in 1995), not on a site called mindreader.com. They wouldn't have shelved it just because they couldn't use it to sell electronics. (Anyway, the article itself didn't state any actual results that came from a Sony experiment, just that the directors believe in ESP and are doing tests for it. But that's almost beside the point.)

 

[rojse]

I did read that, and it's actually a good example of what I was talking about. If Sony had found conclusive evidence for ESP that stands up to scientific rigor, we'd be hearing about it on the front page of every major newspaper in the world (or we would have in 1995), not on a site called mindreader.com. They wouldn't have shelved it just because they couldn't use it to sell electronics. (Anyway, the article itself didn't state any actual results that came from a Sony experiment, just that the directors believe in ESP and are doing tests for it. But that's almost beside the point.)

Nerd World Media - Sony's PsiStation
Sony senses a market in ESP | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET

Here are two articles slightly better than the original I posted. The first details why the project collapsed - a lack of commercial applications, and (possibly) it's main supporter passing away. The second is an article from the London Independent - surely this is a reasonable enough source for you. Not front page news, certainly, but then, Sony didn't go to a tremendous effort to help in this regard.

As Sony has spent millions of dollars doing research into the field, I can see why they are not going to give their results out to anyone else. They're not a charity, they are a business, and to give these results out is not in the commercial interests of the company. No other company gives out their in-house research results, so I do not see why Sony should.

 

[Panda]

As Sony has spent millions of dollars doing research into the field, I can see why they are not going to give their results out to anyone else. They're not a charity, they are a business, and to give these results out is not in the commercial interests of the company. No other company gives out their in-house research results, so I do not see why Sony should.

For all we know then Sony spent the time and money on giant novelty penises. Like as been said, no credible research has ever found any results from this. If Sony had found something they could have made a fortune just by sharing the results.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Just something that I've wondered.

Haven't found a reason to believe thus far.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Personally, I'm an atheist as a result of being a rationalist. For me, not believing in god(s) is as inevitable as not believing in astrology or telepathy. All things whose existence hav no objective evidence fall under the same category.

Most atheists I've ever known personally, fall into this category. I'm always a bit skeptical of the sincerity and/or actual understanding of someone who claims to be an atheist yet believes in other supernatural things.

 

[Inky]

For all we know then Sony spent the time and money on giant novelty penises. Like as been said, no credible research has ever found any results from this. If Sony had found something they could have made a fortune just by sharing the results.

Yep, my point exactly. Millions (more likely billions) of dollars and instant global fame would be the reward of any person or group who repeatedly and consistently demonstrated ESP in a scientifically rigorous setting. They wouldn't keep it under wraps.

 

[rojse]

For all we know then Sony spent the time and money on giant novelty penises.

What does Sony gain from lying? Some other companies do the same research, lose a few million dollars, and they gain respect from some fringe groups that most likely do not have large disposable funds to purchase their products, and probably would not do so unless they were directly related to this supposed research.

In contrast, they could lose a lot of credibility if their claims are found false. I think that this alone would ensure they wouldn't knowingly lie about something like this.

And the fact that there was quite little publicity to this research detracts from the cynical viewpoint in this regard - lying about a matter like this and going to little effort to publish it does sound self-defeating, particularly since few people widely lused the internet at this time (1997).

I usually take an attitude resembling yours in regards to matters like this, but Sony gains little, and stands to lose a lot from these sort of claims.

 

[Inky]

The profit wouldn't result from manufacturing products that use ESP. It would result from the massive fame and positive publicity the company would gain for proving the existence of psychic powers, and from the millions or billions in awards and grants they would recieve from the scientific community.

 

[rojse]

The profit wouldn't result from manufacturing products that use ESP. It would result from the massive fame and positive publicity the company would gain for proving the existence of psychic powers, and from the millions or billions in awards and grants they would recieve from the scientific community.

Do you think that Sony gained the publicity that you speak of, particularly since they did not release research notes, information about the participants or the like?

 

[Panda]

I think what is most likely is Sony investigated it found nothing and tried to keep it quiet so as not to get laughed at by the scientific community, a lot of which will be its customers.

 

[rojse]

I think what is most likely is Sony investigated it found nothing and tried to keep it quiet so as not to get laughed at by the scientific community, a lot of which will be its customers.

If this reasoning is true, then why publicise their findings at all, then?

 

[Panda]

If this reasoning is true, then why publicise their findings at all, then?

If it was leaked by employees etc the media uproar would be much bigger than if they quietly put it out there.

 

[Nepenthe]

It's difficult to give much credence to a field like parapsychology where nothing, literally nothing, new has been discovered to add to our scientific knowledge, much less any practical applications.

The scientific approach with it’s methods: demands for replication, susceptibility to being falsified, etc., are quite young. Yet in the mere four centuries and a handful of decades since we’ve cracked atoms, described DNA, unfurled the human genome, released humans from Earth’s gravity- all using these simple yet incredibly accurate and powerful scientific tools, yet we've found no hint of the supernatural.

What have inquiries into magical realms dredged up? Absolutely nothing in all of human history has anything that would violate the scientific evidence been found frozen in amber, exposed in quantum packets, or found pulsing away in the mitochondria of a cell. No ghosts in the machine, no extension of electromagnetism beyond the brain- nothing.

You'd think that if even a subtle rare form of, say, psychokinesis did exist it'd be substantiated or we'd see a real world impact- like say some kind of mysterious external influence occuring withing Drift Chambers where particles would be tweaked in unpredictable ways. Instead we get RNGs that generate ambiguous data at best.

 

[Storm]

Psychic abilities needn't be "magical," Sugriva.

 

[Nepenthe]

Psychic abilities needn't be "magical," Sugriva.

Oh definitely. But even if they fall under some as yet unknown application of physics or open up a whole new field, I still don't see any evidence to validate it. I used supernatural/magic/paranormal/etc. colloquially when there are certainly distinctions I should make amongst them.

But I'm lazy and the post was rambling enough as is.