Did You Choose Your Truth?

[LuisDantas]

Once we finally accept the fact that we do not know the truth, we can then choose from among the various options, and change it at any time. But then it stops being a ‘belief’ and becomes a matter of faith.

Perhaps to some people under certain circunstances. That may even have happened to me at some point.

But what I was talking about was something else entirely.

Truth isn't a consumer good (although many a consumer good is labelled as "truth, ready to use"). Of particular pragmatic and practical significance is that having the goal of tapping into some sort of cosmic truth is infantile and harmful. We can't in good faith expect protection out of the sincerity of our beliefs: that would spiritual fraud of a considerable intensity. That would be (and is) cowardly abuse of our own ability to believe and have faith, with a side dish of misguided social expectations to boot.

All the same, it happens so often and so widely that it really harms one's faith in humanity's worth.

To the extent that we can talk about a sense of "truth", it can responsibly come only from honest and inherently provisional efforts at achieving awareness according to the circunstances and available resources. We perceive existence and interact with it, but we are not owed connection to cosmic truths if they even exist in the first place. That is for fanfic characters, not for mentally sane adults.

 

[MikeF]

So at this point, you can choose to be in favor of capital punishment...say...this afternoon if you wanted to?

Certainly. How likely that is to occur would be a different thing, however.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Certainly. How likely that is to occur would be a different thing, however.

How likely is it to happen? What would such a choice look like? Can you flip your morals and ethical standards at will?

 

[PureX]

Stop including me in your generalizations about people and I'll gladly stop "whining." But as long as you continue to speak on my behalf, I'll continue "chasing [you] around."

I can promise you that you specifically never entered my mind. Or anyone else's. Maybe you should get over yourself.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I can promise you that you specifically never entered my mind. Or anyone else's. Maybe you should get over yourself.

Maybe you should work on your phrasing and strive to be impeccable with your word.

 

[PureX]

Perhaps to some people under certain circunstances. That may even have happened to me at some point.

But what I was talking about was something else entirely.

Truth isn't a consumer good (although many a consumer good is labelled as "truth, ready to use"). Of particular pragmatic and practical significance is that having the goal of tapping into some sort of cosmic truth is infantile and harmful. We can't in good faith expect protection out of the sincerity of our beliefs: that would spiritual fraud of a considerable intensity. That would be (and is) cowardly abuse of our own ability to believe and have faith, with a side dish of misguided social expectations to boot.

All the same, it happens so often and so widely that it really harms one's faith in humanity's worth.

To the extent that we can talk about a sense of "truth", it can responsibly come only from honest and inherently provisional efforts at achieving awareness according to the circunstances and available resources. We perceive existence and interact with it, but we are not owed connection to cosmic truths if they even exist in the first place. That is for fanfic characters, not for mentally sane adults.

Sounds like you, like many others, are a 'true believer'. That is you truly believe that your concept of truth is the truth. And therefor you cannot possibly deny it. But some of us recognize that as limited humans we can't know what the truth is. That we only presume truthfulness from within the limitations of appearances. And that being the case, we are no longer 'true believers' in our own ideas of truth. We can only accept this or that to be true on faith. And that is how we are able to recognize that our idea of truth is a matter of choice.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sounds like you, like many others, are a 'true believer'. That is you truly believe that your concept of truth is the truth. And therefor you cannot possibly deny it. But some of us recognize that as limited humans we can't know what the truth is. That we only presume truthfulness from within the limitations of appearances. And that being the case, we are no longer 'true believers' in our own ideas of truth. We can only accept this or that to be true on faith. And that is how we are able to recognize that our idea of truth is a matter of choice.

With all due respect, I have come to recognize you as a person prone to jumping to snap judgements of others.

The end result is that I tune out when you tell me what I sound like, particularly when you pull out the absolutes. You are not wearing my bones inside you, and you have no authority whatsoever to speak of my notions of truth and truthfulness. Don't delude yourself.

I learn from experience.

(Had you instead attempted to present a hypothetical scenario and invited me to consider whether it might apply and to which extent, I might perhaps be bothered to make the attempt.)

 

[MikeF]

How likely is it to happen? What would such a choice look like? Can you flip your morals and ethical standards at will?

Your question seems a little loaded. The word 'flip', to me, connotes taking the opposite position. In regards to moral and ethical standards, to flip would be to adopt the antithetical position, in my view. If the moral position is that certain actions should be punished, a flipped position would be that those actions should not be punished.

As to my views on the death penalty, I do not see it as likely that I will change them, but it is possible.

As to whether I can flip my moral and ethical standards at will, I would say no, that is highly unlikely. I will say that my my moral and ethical standards can change, the likelihood of which is highly dependent on the moral or ethical question at hand and in what way circumstances or understanding has changed since the original position was formed.

 

[PureX]

With all due respect, I have come to recognize you as a person prone to jumping to snap judgements of others.

The end result is that I tune out when you tell me what I sound like,

That sounds like a problem that you need to work on, then. Since a snap judgment is no more or less accurate than a long considered one. Especially one based on observation.

... particularly when you pull out the absolutes.

I pulled out no absolutes. Just the opposite. I pointed out why the absolutism of "true belief" is mistaken.

You are not wearing my bones inside you, and you have no authority whatsoever to speak of my notions of truth and truthfulness. Don't delude yourself.

I say what I see, If you don't feel that fits you, then so be it. There's no reason at all to be offended.

I learn from experience.

Who doesn't?

(Had you instead attempted to present a hypothetical scenario and invited me to consider whether it might apply and to which extent, I might perhaps be bothered to make the attempt.)

Or, if you weren't so easily butt-hurt and just took the observation in the spirit it was given you might have actually learned something.

 

[PearlSeeker]

In another thread, it was suggested the people choose their truth. Choice implies that can select other options.

Are your truths a result of choice?

Did you choose your worldview, your core values, or what you believe? Can you just flip a switch and change your worldview, core values, or beliefs?

Discuss.

I changed religious beliefs after long research. It wasn't something I wanted. At first I just wanted to get more insight and a broader view... Then I gradually realized I couldn't accept my beliefs as truth anymore...

I didn't choose a truth between truths. I chose an epistemology - to trust reason and science - that led me to further/different realizations.

I wasn't happy to find out I was mistaken. If I could choose I would rather want that my former belief was true. Truth is sometimes less appealing than fantasy.

 

[LuisDantas]

That sounds like a problem that you need to work on, then. Since a snap judgment is no more or less accurate than a long considered one. Especially one based on observation.

I pulled out no absolutes. Just the opposite. I pointed out why the absolutism of "true belief" is mistaken.

I say what I see, If you don't feel that fits you, then so be it. There's no reason at all to be offended.

Who doesn't?

Or, if you weren't so easily butt-hurt and just took the observation in the spirit it was given you might have actually learned something.

Bye.

 

[Bird123]

Good or bad thing, humans can deceive themselves and pretend they know something they don't and trick themselves about it.

I went through a period in my life where I argued against Muslims about God being benevolent, no hell, didn't believe in reincarnation either, just that everyone goes to paradise. I would also argue for similar reasons as @Bird123 as to why God would not reveal books. I had further arguments, that books could not be proofs or miracles.

I was unbalanced, but couldn't see it then. @Bird123 and the old me would've agreed on most things.

I know humans can believe what they desire. And the heart mixes truth and falsehood.

It's harder to submit to truth when it's not what you wish or desire.

I came back to Islam not that I wanted to, I wanted a life free of responsibility.

Truthfulness is God's sword. It cuts off falsehood and it's a radiation source in itself.

It hurts the ego when we are wrong and it's hard to be truthful sometimes to ourselves, but it gives us strength if we cling to the truth to follow the truth.

Worry not. God is going to teach all His children regardless of their Beliefs or Choices. You are choosing what is truth through Beliefs. I am Discovering truth from what actually Is. Your choices and actions will return, in time, to teach you what your choices and actions really are. This will lead you to Discover what the best choices really are. At this point, you will not have to depend on beliefs.

Be who you must. It's a part of the plan!! Remember, we are all meant to THINK!!! rather than follow blindly. I say venture into Undiscovered country. God hides nothing. It surrounds us all. Put the pieces of the puzzle together and you will come to really know God instead of a bunch of other people's Beliefs.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Worry not. God is going to teach all His children regardless of their Beliefs or Choices. You are choosing what is truth through Beliefs. I am Discovering truth from what actually Is. Your choices and actions will return, in time, to teach you what your choices and actions really are. This will lead you to Discover what the best choices really are. At this point, you will not have to depend on beliefs.

Be who you must. It's a part of the plan!! Remember, we are all meant to THINK!!! rather than follow blindly. I say venture into Undiscovered country. God hides nothing. It surrounds us all. Put the pieces of the puzzle together and you will come to really know God instead of a bunch of other people's Beliefs.

Even if you are correct that a god exists, there doesn't seem to be much advantaging in knowing or believing it as you describe reality. I already discover truth empirically and acquire wisdom through trial and error. The god you describe doesn't seem to be involved.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you can't just flip a switch and change your mind, are your beliefs really a choice, then? If you can just abandon your current beliefs to believe in something else, what choice do you have?

I meant that it was a choice when I initially made it, and there was a reason I made that choice.
I did not mean that now I can choose to disbelieve what I believe.

I cannot just abandon my current beliefs and choose to believe in something else, not unless something happens that causes me to change my mind, such as new information about my beliefs that might cause me to question them.

This is where I differ. My worldview and core values are inherent to my very being. Though raised Catholic, I could not choose to be Catholic, even when I was a child, I tried to be. It just conflicted with my core values. After dabbling in other religions and theistic positions, I can honestly say my religious beliefs are derived from my worldview and core values.

So you had a worldview and core values that led you to choose your religious beliefs, since the worldview and core values you already had aligned with the religious beliefs you chose?

I became a Baha'i I was only 17 years old and I have no worldview at that time, but I did have certain core values that aligned with the Baha'i Faith and still do. For example, never valued a materialistic lifestyle or a lifestyle that included casual sex, alcohol, or recreational drugs.

After I became a Baha'i my worldview developed over the course of time, evolving into what it is today.

 

[Trailblazer]

You really need to get over this, dude. We just means we. There is a we. And it includes you. You are not terminally unique. You are just like the rest of us in a great many respects, and we all know it.

He is like us in some ways but different from us in other ways... Humans are all unique.

"We" do not all know what you believe you know.

 

[Trailblazer]

Worry not.

@Link did not sound worried to me. He sounded like he had things figured out.

He said: Truthfulness is God's sword. It cuts off falsehood and it's a radiation source in itself.

It hurts the ego when we are wrong and it's hard to be truthful sometimes to ourselves, but it gives us strength if we cling to the truth to follow the truth.

 

[DNB]

In another thread, it was suggested the people choose their truth. Choice implies that can select other options.

Are your truths a result of choice?

Did you choose your worldview, your core values, or what you believe? Can you just flip a switch and change your worldview, core values, or beliefs?

Discuss.

I was brought up in a Roman Catholic home, that was not very devout except for going to Church on Christmas and Easter - I don't believe that I was indoctrinated.
I always believed in God, I trust that this was by my own volition and realization.
At 20 years old, missionaries came to my apartment and spoke the Gospel of Christ to me; I believed right away, and have been a Christian ever since: 30+ years later.

I constantly engage in informal debates on theism and Christianity, I am in the process of developing a Christian website, and read Christian theology daily.
I would assert therefore, that I have made an self determined, voluntary, and uncoerced decision to accept Christianity as the sole truth, and the only means towards salvation, architected by the one and only God that exists in the universe: YHWH, the Father.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I just sort of drifted to where I am.

And all of us are passing through as well... ;0)

It kind of reminds me of one of my old signatures based off a song by The Talking Heads, where I do not know where I came from, and don't know where I'm going.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I would assert therefore, that I have made an self determined, voluntary, and uncoerced decision to accept Christianity as the sole truth, and the only means towards salvation, architected by the one and only God that exists in the universe: YHWH, the Father.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so in the thread in the link below?

A question for all religious believers -- why is your religion more true than any other?

It does seem to me that all of the religious people I know accept that their creed, their religion's essential beliefs, are correct, while all others -- because they obviously don't agree with the central tenets of their sect, must be somehow lacking. As a non-believer in any religion, I am...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Bthoth]

In another thread, it was suggested the people choose their truth. Choice implies that can select other options.

each and everyone can. That's the beauty of being an 'aye' (conscious and capable to represent).

Are your truths a result of choice?

Sure.

Did you choose your worldview, your core values, or what you believe?

Basic. Raised on the commandments. ie... personal responsibility.

Can you just flip a switch and change your worldview, core values, or beliefs?

Discuss.

Sure. I have long before come to realize that life did not come with an owner's manual.


Lot's to know to survive.

Many cultures, many lands.