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Did You Choose Your Truth?

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
So you had a worldview and core values that led you to choose your religious beliefs, since the worldview and core values you already had aligned with the religious beliefs you chose?
No.

I had a worldview and core values that led me to choose my religion, not my religious beliefs. While my beliefs are quite few, I had them, along with my worldview and core values before I began identifying as Hindu.

I became a Baha'i I was only 17 years old and I have no worldview at that time, but I did have certain core values that aligned with the Baha'i Faith and still do. For example, never valued a materialistic lifestyle or a lifestyle that included casual sex, alcohol, or recreational drugs.
I find it hard to believe that you were a blank slate with no moral, theistic, or political views prior to becoming Baha'i at 17. No belief or disbelief in the existience of any gods? No ethics or morals? No opinions on abortion or the death penalty? On relationships?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I had a worldview and core values that led me to choose my religion, not my religious beliefs. While my beliefs are quite few, I had them, along with my worldview and core values before I began identifying as Hindu.
Okay, thanks for the clarification.
I find it hard to believe that you were a blank slate with no moral, theistic, or political views prior to becoming Baha'i at 17. No belief or disbelief in the existience of any gods? No ethics or morals? No opinions on abortion or the death penalty? On relationships?
If you had my childhood maybe you would understand why I never thought about any of those things.
I was just trying to survive.

I think I did have morals but I had no belief or disbelief in God(s) and I had no political views.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Even if you are correct that a god exists, there doesn't seem to be much advantaging in knowing or believing it as you describe reality. I already discover truth empirically and acquire wisdom through trial and error. The god you describe doesn't seem to be involved.
What are you missing? Perhaps another look is in order.

You are right. It has never been about knowing or believing in God. Perhaps the greatest advantage of knowing God is watching High Intelligence at work. As we all know, sitting next to the smartest kid in the class helps in that knowledge tends to rub off on others.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
@Link did not sound worried to me. He sounded like he had things figured out.

He said: Truthfulness is God's sword. It cuts off falsehood and it's a radiation source in itself.

It hurts the ego when we are wrong and it's hard to be truthful sometimes to ourselves, but it gives us strength if we cling to the truth to follow the truth.
EGO gets in the way of so much Learning.


Why is it hard to be Truthful to oneself? If you are not honest and truthful to yourself, you are lost from reality.


The Truth is about what Is. Truth is something that has nothing to do with following or believing. The sky is blue. How can this be hard? What is is not hard. Knowing what is is better than all those beliefs people are following and accepting.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
EGO gets in the way of so much Learning.


Why is it hard to be Truthful to oneself? If you are not honest and truthful to yourself, you are lost from reality.


The Truth is about what Is. Truth is something that has nothing to do with following or believing. The sky is blue. How can this be hard? What is is not hard. Knowing what is is better than all those beliefs people are following and accepting.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

It *is* hard. We are imperfect creatures.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The Truth is about what Is. Truth is something that has nothing to do with following or believing.
That's true, truth is something that has nothing to do with following or believing.
The sky is blue. How can this be hard? What is is not hard.
That is not hard because it is an objective truth, something we can see with our eyes.
Knowing what is is better than all those beliefs people are following and accepting.
How do you think we can know what is?
 

siti

Well-Known Member
In another thread, it was suggested the people choose their truth. Choice implies that can select other options.

Are your truths a result of choice?

Did you choose your worldview, your core values, or what you believe? Can you just flip a switch and change your worldview, core values, or beliefs?

Discuss.
When I learned to live with doubt and ambiguity, "truth" became less important...there's a hell of a lot more that I don't know than any possible "truth" I might imagine I do. For me, learning to live without "truth" and "certitude" was definitely - at least in part - a deliberate decision. Abandoning faith might not be an easy choice, but, for me, it was a choice that opened up after making a conscientious determination to "follow the evidence" wherever it leads.

So its not about "flipping a switch", its not the kind of choice that is made when selecting a particular brand of some product or another in the supermarket...but yes, I certainly think choice is involved...

OTOH, we don't all have the same options open to us (for the same reason that I gave up on "truth"), so for each of us that choice is probably limited to a significant degree.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
It *is* hard. We are imperfect creatures.
Step by step we are all walking toward perfect. Does it really matter one is not perfect on the road to perfection? Here's a little secret: One will never reach perfection without imperfection.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
That's true, truth is something that has nothing to do with following or believing.

That is not hard because it is an objective truth, something we can see with our eyes.

How do you think we can know what is?
Do you really think Blind people have Discovered no Truth? Some have far greater sight than you can imagine.

Your question: How do you think we can know what is?
My Answer: Perhaps, that is a test of Intelligence. Do you even Try?? Perhaps a good Math course would show you a view other than feels right.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Do you really think Blind people have Discovered no Truth? Some have far greater sight than you can imagine.
No, I do not think that. Physical eyes are not necessary to see spiritual truths. They are only needed to see physical things.
Your question: How do you think we can know what is?
My Answer: Perhaps, that is a test of Intelligence. Do you even Try?? Perhaps a good Math course would show you a view other than feels right.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
You managed to completely avoid answering what I was asking. This is not about intelligence or math.
Again, how do you think we can know what is?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Are your truths a result of choice?

No.

What I believe (or not) is not so much a choice as it is a compulsion.
A compulsion that is the result of being convinced of something (or not).
And I get convinced by evidence, logic and reasonable argumentation.

The idea that belief is a choice is easily demonstrated to be false by taking it to the absurd and ask the following question:
Could you sincerely choose right here, right now, to believe that if you jump from a building, you won't fall down and instead simply float mid-air?

Off course you couldn't. Nobody could. Not even those who maintain that belief is a mere choice.
The reason is simply because they are convinced that gravity is a real thing. And the way they are convinced of that is through reason, evidence and logic.

Did you choose your worldview, your core values, or what you believe? Can you just flip a switch and change your worldview, core values, or beliefs?
I absolutely could not.
 

Bthoth

*banned*
No.

What I believe (or not) is not so much a choice as it is a compulsion.
A compulsion that is the result of being convinced of something (or not).
And I get convinced by evidence, logic and reasonable argumentation.

The idea that belief is a choice is easily demonstrated to be false by taking it to the absurd and ask the following question:
Could you sincerely choose right here, right now, to believe that if you jump from a building, you won't fall down and instead simply float mid-air?

Off course you couldn't. Nobody could. Not even those who maintain that belief is a mere choice.
The reason is simply because they are convinced that gravity is a real thing. And the way they are convinced of that is through reason, evidence and logic.


I absolutely could not.
Gravity (the word) has no application is such a reality as it was barely created to describe the cause of the falling. Just as very few even know how it works. The variations are extreme in such a belief to use as an example.

Good and bad, right and wrong are even subjective.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
No, I do not think that. Physical eyes are not necessary to see spiritual truths. They are only needed to see physical things.

You managed to completely avoid answering what I was asking. This is not about intelligence or math.
Again, how do you think we can know what is?
That is for each to decide. Did I really avoid answering the question or do you just not like my answers? Perhaps it's much more about Intelligence and Math than you realize!! I point!!

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. No one is going to Learn your Lessons for you, nor will they give you all your answers for you. Your Quest, your Journey stretches out in front of you. It awaits you!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
That is for each to decide. Did I really avoid answering the question or do you just not like my answers? Perhaps it's much more about Intelligence and Math than you realize!! I point!!
You again managed to avoid answering what I was asking. This is not about intelligence or math.
Again, how do you think we can know what is?

To further clarify, is what is different for everyone?

To me what is = Reality. Is Reality different for everyone? Not according to what I believe.

“The first principle Baha’u’llah urged was the independent investigation of truth. “Each individual,” He said, “is following the faith of his ancestors who themselves are lost in the maze of tradition. Reality is steeped in dogmas and doctrines. If each investigate for himself, he will find that Reality is one; does not admit of multiplicity; is not divisible. All will find the same foundation and all will be at peace.”
Abdu’l-Baha, Star of the West, Volume 3, p. 5.

“What does it mean to investigate reality? It means that man must forget all hearsay and examine truth himself, for he does not know whether statements he hears are in accordance with reality or not. Wherever he finds truth or reality, he must hold to it, forsaking, discarding all else; for outside of reality there is naught but superstition and imagination.”
Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62.
It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. No one is going to Learn your Lessons for you, nor will they give you all your answers for you. Your Quest, your Journey stretches out in front of you. It awaits you!!
That part of what you said is true.
It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. No one is going to Learn your Lessons for you.

However, that still does not answer my questions above.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
EGO gets in the way of so much Learning.


Why is it hard to be Truthful to oneself? If you are not honest and truthful to yourself, you are lost from reality.


The Truth is about what Is. Truth is something that has nothing to do with following or believing. The sky is blue. How can this be hard? What is is not hard. Knowing what is is better than all those beliefs people are following and accepting.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
What you say is partially true. However God is unseen and picking up the true link to him and his sword amidst false swords takes a bit of spiritual focus and fighting off falsehood. You have to recognize the signs of God within especially seeing the guide live within you which is not easy for most.
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
In another thread, it was suggested the people choose their truth. Choice implies that can select other options.

Are your truths a result of choice?

Did you choose your worldview, your core values, or what you believe? Can you just flip a switch and change your worldview, core values, or beliefs?

Discuss.

Truth to me is whatever is at this exact moment.
By the time we begin to grasp what that is, it is gone.
So we are left with a vague impression of what truth was.
 

Bthoth

*banned*
That is for each to decide. Did I really avoid answering the question or do you just not like my answers? Perhaps it's much more about Intelligence and Math than you realize!! I point!!

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. No one is going to Learn your Lessons for you, nor will they give you all your answers for you. Your Quest, your Journey stretches out in front of you. It awaits you!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Fair post. Each must choose to do what is right by their own conscious.

No one gave us an owners manual or know how illustrations.

the journey awaits!
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
In another thread, it was suggested the people choose their truth. Choice implies that can select other options.

Are your truths a result of choice?

Did you choose your worldview, your core values, or what you believe? Can you just flip a switch and change your worldview, core values, or beliefs?

Discuss.

William James', The Varieties of Religious Experience, gives some really eye-opening accounts of famous conversion-experiences. The gist of the ones he narrates is that it's a painful and psychologically taxing event to convert from one fundamental worldview to another (just look at Saul of Tarsus), but that it is possible if someone is willing to make that wilderness journey or take a short-cut by way of the road to Damascus.

Tolstoy's Confession is about a quarter of the length of James' book but expresses the same exorbitant cost of taking a major fork in the road of life.



John
 
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Bird123

Well-Known Member
You again managed to avoid answering what I was asking. This is not about intelligence or math.
Again, how do you think we can know what is?

To further clarify, is what is different for everyone?

To me what is = Reality. Is Reality different for everyone? Not according to what I believe.

“The first principle Baha’u’llah urged was the independent investigation of truth. “Each individual,” He said, “is following the faith of his ancestors who themselves are lost in the maze of tradition. Reality is steeped in dogmas and doctrines. If each investigate for himself, he will find that Reality is one; does not admit of multiplicity; is not divisible. All will find the same foundation and all will be at peace.”
Abdu’l-Baha, Star of the West, Volume 3, p. 5.

“What does it mean to investigate reality? It means that man must forget all hearsay and examine truth himself, for he does not know whether statements he hears are in accordance with reality or not. Wherever he finds truth or reality, he must hold to it, forsaking, discarding all else; for outside of reality there is naught but superstition and imagination.”
Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62.

That part of what you said is true.
It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. No one is going to Learn your Lessons for you.

However, that still does not answer my questions above.
How about this? What is is when all the Math adds up no matter how or how long one questions it.

Each must decide these things for themselves. It is part of the Wisdom experience. People can tell you what is good and what is evil, however each must Discover these and all things for themselves. No one can do it for you. Learning isn't about believing or accepting. It is about Knowing!! Yes, how can you tell what is? This is something you must Discover for yourself.

I think you depend way too much on others doing it for you. Your pocket of saved beliefs will never be the same as knowing. Can you really be satisfied lacking?? Is it really Intelligence saying so many things are impossible? Search your soul and stop hiding from yourself. Isn't it time to move forward again?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
What you say is partially true. However God is unseen and picking up the true link to him and his sword amidst false swords takes a bit of spiritual focus and fighting off falsehood. You have to recognize the signs of God within especially seeing the guide live within you which is not easy for most.
There are no swords. Making choices can be hard especially when intimidated by others. It's better to go ahead and choose what one really wants to learn than allowing others to intimidate your choices. Why? One will make that choice in time regardless of others just to Learn what that choice really means. Where God comes in is that God will teach you all sides so that there will no long be question of what the best choice really is.

It has never been about fighting, swords, or even God. It is about us. Life is the education of God's children. Choose freely. That is part of God's system. God will never hate anyone for any choices. God Loves Unconditionally!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 
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