captainbryce,
You are acknowledging that both God and Jesus have the same authority.
I am acknowledging that Jesus has been granted the authority to judge by God (ie: God has allowed this). God has relinquished this authority to his son.
John 5:30
I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.
That's not the same thing as saying they have the "same authority". Clearly they don't, as Jesus made it clear that God is greater than he is.
Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked. "
Only God is truly good."
John 14:28
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for
the Father is greater than I.
One could not save humanity without the other, for one had to be in the flesh to accomplish it.
Now you are placing limitations on the power of God. God can do ANYTHING he want's at anytime (because he is all-powerful). He absolutely could save humanity without Jesus. But he choose Jesus to be the savior of humanity because this was the BEST, most efficient, and most "righteous" way of judging mankind. God is setting the perfect example of fairness, not just for humans, but also for angels. There was no "better" way to save mankind, then by using a sinless man.
Jeremiah 11:20
But you, LORD Almighty,
who judge righteously and test the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance on them, for to you I have committed my cause.
2 Timothy 4:8
And now the prize awaits me--the crown of righteousness, which
the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on the day of his return. And the prize is not just for me but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing.
But I do agree that Jesus could not have done it without God!
The basic theme is, Father God created all there is, God the Son redeemed all there is, and God the holy Spirit supports all there is that was redeemed.
That's YOUR basic theme (a trinitarian theme). That is not a theme I see in the bible because nowhere in there does it describe "God the Son". There was the Son of God, who is a god himself, but not God Almighty.
You have to understand that when Jesus is speaking to the Father is because as God in the flesh, Jesus must be as a fleshly creature, as you and I, for the express purpose of conquering eternal death and hell's deliverance for us.
Nothing about that sentence is logical. I also don't find that it is supported in scripture. Scripture says that Jesus has his own God! How could God have a God who was over him? That is not logical and when things don't make sense, it's because they aren't true.
Jesus can not, could not forgive sin without being fully vested with the power of Almighty Father to do so.
I agree. In fact, I already said that!
As like you and I, born after the spirit of our first parents, we could never attain the perfection required to deliver our own soul, let alone the souls of the whole of humanity..... save God himself.
You're wrong. We COULD do that IF we like Jesus was born through God's will and not the offspring of Adam (who tainted all his descendants with original sin). The reason Jesus could do it is because he was not affected by original sin, and this is why God gave him the authority to forgive sin. None of that equates to Jesus being God himself.
If, one can not see passed verses in the bible to extract the spiritual significance of the differences between what Jesus had to comply with and what God could perform, did perform, as both flesh and God, then, yes, I can understand why many deny the divine nature of Jesus as God.
I haven't denied the divine nature of Jesus. I am denying that he was God. There is a difference! Trinitarians like to twist that up as if they are one in the same, but the fact is, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
All the same, Christ purchased salvation for all mankind...bar none.
All this debating is for our enlightenment, joy, contentment and peace in the knowledge of a loving God, regardless of our differing opinions.
Blessings, AJ
I agree. At the end of the day, none of this really matters. It's all academic. Salvation is not dependent on whether we fully understand the nature of Jesus and his relationship to God. It is dependent on whether or not we accept him as our savior, for the remission of sins.