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Did Jesus say he was God???

Muffled

Jesus in me
I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
While I agree with you about the Divinity of Jesus.

To use Bible quotes to prove it, requires the reader to accept the Truth of the Bible.

This belief does not always exist.

I am very selective in my reading of the Bible and get more from the colour and the teachings of the Bible than the exactness of the translation or the actual words.

Jesus teachings were so new in the world, as compared to the Jewish norm, that their teaching and truth shine through.

Contrary wise some of Paul's teachings are so much like the teachings of a Jew of his time, that although moral issues are handled well, they often show little of the new reality that Jesus brought us.

Jesus speaks directly to our heart and soul.
 

kadzbiz

..........................
I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.

Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father

I agree with Terrywoodenpic and I will add that you say it is overwhelming evidence and then proceed to give the your evidence as hearsay. It would never hold up in court.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Hi, Muffled!

The Baha'i sriptures make clear that NO Divine Messenger is God incarnate, and indeed that God does not incarnate Himself (and would cease to be God if He did).

That said, it is proper to refer to them as God because They are the Face of God on earth and deliver His teachings and laws to us in pure form. (This is part of what we Baha'is call the Messengers' "dual stations" of being simultaneously human and divine.)

Best regards,

Bruce
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
None of it is evidence of divinity. You cannot contain the ocean in a teacup, and God the Creator cannot be contained within all of Hisx Creation, much less the body of ONE human being.

The fact that Jesus was born of woman means He cannot have been God.

"The Father which sent me. . ." is just one more of dozens of opportunities Jesus took to keep Himself separate from God in the minds of His followers. At opportunity after opportunity Jesus calls Himself the Son of Man, not the Son of God.

My wife and I are one according to the Old Testament, that does not make my wife me, or me, my wife.

Jesus and God were one in purpose, one in Revelation (Jesus the mouthpiece, God Revealed Himself with). It can mean everything but "one and the same".

You prove your own assumption in your own lights and expect it to convince others? That's called "begging the question" or "Circular argument". It's not proof in any rational sense.

Regards.

Scott
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Hi, Muffled!

The Baha'i sriptures make clear that NO Divine Messenger is God incarnate, and indeed that God does not incarnate Himself (and would cease to be God if He did).

That said, it is proper to refer to them as God because They are the Face of God on earth and deliver His teachings and laws to us in pure form. (This is part of what we Baha'is call the Messengers' "dual stations" of being simultaneously human and divine.)

Best regards,

Bruce

It would be interesting to see those scriptures. Having seen Baha'is misinterpret other instances of their scripture, it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing has occurred in this instance.

If a later scripture came along contradicting our scripture we would consider it as having come from the originator of lies.

There was nothing divine about Mohammed or the
Bbaha'u'llah. They listened to God and related what they heard. I am sure that neither one made the claims that Jesus made.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see those scriptures. Having seen Baha'is misinterpret other instances of their scripture, it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing has occurred in this instance.

If a later scripture came along contradicting our scripture we would consider it as having come from the originator of lies.

There was nothing divine about Mohammed or the
Bbaha'u'llah. They listened to God and related what they heard. I am sure that neither one made the claims that Jesus made.

In his own direct words, where does Jesus say He is God? None of the quotes yoyu have shown us before say that.

Regards,
\Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
I have yet to see an example of where Jesus in His own words, says He is God. Can you show it to me?

None of the quotes you showed before say that. Jesus says in several instances that He is the Son of Man, but that's not the same thing.

Regards,
Scott
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
I have yet to see an example of where Jesus in His own words, says He is God. Can you show it to me?

None of the quotes you showed before say that. Jesus says in several instances that He is the Son of Man, but that's not the same thing.

Regards,
Scott
Well, since I don't believe early Christians were Sola Scripturist, I don't think it matters to us whether it's in the Bible or not. Surely, you can see that many early Christians saw him as such?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Well, since I don't believe early Christians were Sola Scripturist, I don't think it matters to us whether it's in the Bible or not. Surely, you can see that many early Christians saw him as such?

They mnay have, it would have been a significant mistake that has taken Christianity far from it's basic truths, but they may have thought taht way.

Islam has found itself at a dead end because of baseless dogma as well. If it wasn't right for Islam it was not right for Christianity either.

Regards,
Scott
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I am afraid that Jesus said he was the Son of God:

Luk 22:70 Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am."

There are other verses that say He was the Son of God:
Mat 8:28 And when He came to the other side, to the region of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs; exceedingly violent, so that no one was able to pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

Mat 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you pronounce Me to be?"
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
 

Dream Angel

Well-Known Member
I am afraid that Jesus said he was the Son of God:

Luk 22:70 Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am."

There are other verses that say He was the Son of God:
Mat 8:28 And when He came to the other side, to the region of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs; exceedingly violent, so that no one was able to pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

Mat 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you pronounce Me to be?"
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

So... Jesus is the Son of God not God in the flesh! He cant be both, he can be divine, through being the son of his father - like a prince is to a King, but he cannot be God himself!
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
While I agree with you about the Divinity of Jesus.

To use Bible quotes to prove it, requires the reader to accept the Truth of the Bible.

This belief does not always exist.

I am very selective in my reading of the Bible and get more from the colour and the teachings of the Bible than the exactness of the translation or the actual words.

Jesus teachings were so new in the world, as compared to the Jewish norm, that their teaching and truth shine through.

Contrary wise some of Paul's teachings are so much like the teachings of a Jew of his time, that although moral issues are handled well, they often show little of the new reality that Jesus brought us.

Jesus speaks directly to our heart and soul.

Paul walked in the Holy Spirit and wrote as the Spirit of God directed. His style is different but the concepts give further insight into the deeper meanings of Christianity. Paul also writes that Jesus is divine saying that Jesus is the exact representation of God. He also wrote that Jesus is the creator of all things.
 

SonOfNun

Member
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him and without him was not any thing made that was made. I him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came from a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light. which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, or of the will of flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made FLESH, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory of the only begotten son of the father, full of grace and truth. [John 1:1-14]
 

Dream Angel

Well-Known Member
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him and without him was not any thing made that was made. I him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came from a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light. which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, or of the will of flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made FLESH, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory of the only begotten son of the father, full of grace and truth. [John 1:1-14]

Yes the word was that of God or if you like the knowledge of God. God gave Jesus the knowledge, so he spread Gods word! That doesnt mean that Jesus was God, it just means his "job" was to spread the word/knowledge of God!

Many textbooks have detail accounts of theories that scientists have worked out over the years. The theory/word is that of the scientist/God. The author of the textbook/Jesus lets every1 know the theory/word of the scientist/God but that doesnt mean that the author of the text book is the scientist/ Jesus is God!
 
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