Did Jesus say he was God???

[captainbryce]

Even that God was with these men, did Moses, Noah save the peoples souls?

No. But that's irrelevant because it's moving the goal posts. Any "saving" at the hands of man is ultimately through the power of God. God grants the power to other men to save (whether that be mind, body or soul).

None of them where as God but simply, representatives, with power from God to perform in behalf of God but not as God.

Exactly, that's my point. And that's essentially what Jesus was UNLESS you can produce a passage that says otherwise. :yes:

I will concede that Jesus was MORE than any of these other men because he was born through divine will, existed with God in the beginning, is granted authority to judge our sins, and is the perfect reflection of God's glory. This is due to him being the Son of God (which none of the other men are described as). But none of that indicates that they are the same being. Being "as a god" and being GOD himself are two different things. One is supported by scripture, the other is not.

BTW, "spirit" and "soul" are actually two completely separate things. You seem to be using them synonymous, but that would be biblical incorrect.

 

[captainbryce]

One can quote scripture for or against Jesus equating Himself with God all day long, twice on Sunday and every day after and still be divided in views.

No, actually you can't. You can ONLY quote scripture showing that he is NOT equated with God, as no "equatable" scriptures exist! The reason there is divided views is because of the stubbornness of trinitarians, and their insistence on carrying on the traditions of man despite the word of God.

Its something like; one being in jail, imprisoned (in ones mind), looking at the bars only and not seeing between the bars the space between them to reveal what is on the other side.

Many of you, by seeing the bars only, see only those bars/scriptures which show Jesus as being totally submissive to God and therefore remain imprisoned. (In ones mind)

But those who see the bars and the spaces between the bars (scriptures) can see the other side, the spiritual message/spaces to the revelation of Jesus being God.

That's a very interesting analogy. Unfortunately, it fails when it comes to substance. Because if these so-called "spaces" which you can apparently see do in fact exist, then you shouldn't have any problems showing us these spaces (in the way of support scripture). But again, the fact that there is no support scripture for the spaces you see prove that your spaces are really just an illusion that YOU remain trapped inside. The difference between the trinitarians and the non-trinitarians here is that we can actually find scripture that indisputably supports our view and cannot be reconciled with trinity, while you guys cannot produce scriptures that indisputably supports your view, or ones that can't be put into a context that makes it non-applicable with the trinity doctrine. In other words, this "revelation" of Jesus being God doesn't come from the bible, it comes from the traditions of man.

 

[captainbryce]

Can you tell the difference between the two?

Dt6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

And,

'I believe with a perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, is an absolute one'

Yes. One is a declaration from Moses by God, and the other is a professed acceptance of that declaration. Your point?

 

[captainbryce]

What is ELOHIM?

Elohim means "God" in Hebrew.

Elohim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BornAgain]

Yes. One is a declaration from Moses by God, and the other is a professed acceptance of that declaration. Your point?

You can't tell the difference, can you?

 

[Shermana]

Elohim means "God" in Hebrew.

Elohim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It can also mean "a god" such as when it's used for the Celestial beings called "Angels". It can also mean departed Spirits such as when the Witch calls Samuel's and sees "An Elohim".

 

[Shermana]

“BLINDED TO SEE” “ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURE OF FALSE RELIGION”

Can you tell/SEE the difference between the two?

Dt6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

And,

'I believe with a perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, is an absolute one'

Jer23:36 And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man’s word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God. How you think those support your view can only be explained in Trinitarian land.

YOU SHOULD READ THE N.T. BEFORE INSERTING YOUR DELUSIONAL THEORY OR YOUR THEOLOGY ABOUT YOUR RELIGION WHICH YOU YOURSELF IS HAVING A HARD TIME TO FOLLOW.

This is a perfect example of about all a Trinitarian is capable of doing when it comes to argument. If anything, your proof texts indicate clearly that God is not Three In One, but simply One.

It is you Trinitarians who have perverted God's word, and may He Himself show you who is preaching heresy. The Trinity is a delusion that has only been enforced by the edge of the sword and the fire of the stake, especially when it's officially "Too much for the human mind to understand".

 

[cataway]

i find it odd that any trinitarian would even try to use the bible to say it's in the bible when clearly there is no trinty .
or maybe they really dont use the bible and are just making up what they want because it makes them feel good.

 

[look3467]

It is you Trinitarians who have perverted God's word, and may He Himself show you who is preaching heresy. The Trinity is a delusion that has only been enforced by the edge of the sword and the fire of the stake, especially when it's officially "Too much for the human mind to understand".>>>Shermana

To Sermana and cataway,

Your none, what you call "Trinitarian view" does in no way effect the outcome of what Jesus's nature came to accomplish.

Failure to see the three faces of God's administration simply as father, son and holy spirit is like looking at the difference between a black and white picture, verses a colored picture.

I am really surprised that that's is so hard to see.

You recall reading where Jesus said the following:
Mat_3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


Now....do you really think Jesus meant real stones as written? Do you not know that a heart can be hard as stone? (Symbolically)

So, when the Father's administration, which is the first creation and the Father of the nation of Israel, the Son, the second creator, the Father of the recreation of the human spirit, and the Holy Spirit, the Father of the conversion to life everlasting.

Father of creation:
Isa_40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

And of the nation of Israel....
Isa_43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Father/Mediator of the new covenant:

Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Rom_4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Father/Comforter- the Holy Spirit

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Send in whose name?

Those three are the three faces of God working in behalf of mankind as ONE God, One Spirit.

Eph_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

You see, there can be but only one spirit, the Spirit of the Father all in all.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Shermana]

Failure to see the three faces of God's administration simply as father, son and holy spirit is like looking at the difference between a black and white picture, verses a colored picture.

I am really surprised that that's is so hard to see.

It is easy to see what you want to see, but the scripture tells us that Jesus was the instrument of Creation, the highest of Creation, the firstborn AMONG creation. What's so hard to see about that? It's easy to see what the scripture plainly says when it's read plainly with correct grammar without trying to shoehorn and force fit an artificial doctrine with grammatical concepts that didn't get invented until 1700 years later.

With that said, I'm not quite sure how any of your above proof texts actually explain what you're talking about. If anything, it sounds like you are trying to defend Modalism, not the Trinity.

Those three are the three faces of God working in behalf of mankind as ONE God, One Spirit.

That's like saying "3 + 3 = 1, I don't understand what's so hard to see about it!"

 

[look3467]

>>>Shermana;3459599]It is easy to see what you want to see, but the scripture tells us that Jesus was the instrument of Creation, the highest of Creation, the firstborn AMONG creation.

Absolutely correct. Yet still, that body formed for Jesus was inhabited by the spirit of God as father.

And likewise, by the self same spirit was the comforter sent in the name of Jesus.

So again, God worked/works in Jesus and as His Holy Spirit as the one and only God.

That is consistent and in harmony with the whole of the bible.

I can see it plainly and clearly.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

That's like saying "3 + 3 = 1, I don't understand what's so hard to see about it!">>>Shermana

No, that is like saying 1x1x1=1.

Three different administrations of God.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Shermana]

No, that is like saying 1x1x1=1.

Three different administrations of God.

Blessings, AJ

It specifically says that Jesus is subordinate to God, so thus his administration is different than from God Himself. Jesus is often referred to as a separate entity altogether than from "God", not just "The Father".

 

[look3467]

It specifically says that Jesus is subordinate to God, so thus his administration is different than from God Himself. Jesus is often referred to as a separate entity altogether than from "God", not just "The Father".

The only one subordinate to God is Jesus because He was in the flesh, but the Holy spirit is not.

The penalty for creation was death, due to being separate entities as gods from God.

In order for Jesus to become the one for all sacrifice, He had to become as one of us, but not as a separate entity.

All of Adams offspring were subject to the same penalty, so Jesus could not be of the same spirit as Adam, but of God.

Otherwise, as a lamb for the sacrifice, Jesus would have had a blemish.

Blessings, AJ

 

[captainbryce]

Absolutely correct. Yet still, that body formed for Jesus was inhabited by the spirit of God as father.

So what? The spirit of God inhabited other people too.

1 Samuel 10:6
At that time the Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them. You will be changed into a different person.

Ezekiel 11:5
Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon me, and he told me to say, “This is what the Lord says to the people of Israel: I know what you are saying, for I know every thought that comes into your minds.

Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

That doesn't mean that they are God does it?

And likewise, by the self same spirit was the comforter sent in the name of Jesus.

Yes, another comforter. A DIFFERENT comforter! Not the same one.

So again, God worked/works in Jesus and as His Holy Spirit as the one and only God.

Nothing you've said about the relationship between Jesus and God is significantly different from that of any other biblical prophet. Yet you endow Jesus with God status. Why?

That is consistent and in harmony with the whole of the bible.

I can see it plainly and clearly.

Then why can't you trinitarians ever seem to prove that? Why can't you ever seem to produce scriptures that say what you claim is plain and clear?

 

[Shermana]

The only one subordinate to God is Jesus because He was in the flesh, but the Holy spirit is not.

The penalty for creation was death, due to being separate entities as gods from God.

In order for Jesus to become the one for all sacrifice, He had to become as one of us, but not as a separate entity.

All of Adams offspring were subject to the same penalty, so Jesus could not be of the same spirit as Adam, but of God.

Otherwise, as a lamb for the sacrifice, Jesus would have had a blemish.

Blessings, AJ

Where does it say that having the "Spirit of Adam" would make him a blemished sacrifice? Original Sin is not anywhere in the Scripture, is it?

And while we're at it, where does it say that the Spirit of the Father is transmitted through birth?

And what does that have to do with how the text specifically indicates that Jesus is a different being?

And how does your logic entail for Jesus after he's risen in Revelation and no longer "in the flesh" still being subordinate?

 

[captainbryce]

The only one subordinate to God is Jesus because He was in the flesh,

And therefore, logically, he was not God. You just said he was subordinate to God!

The penalty for creation was death, due to being separate entities as gods from God.

Really? The penalty for creation was death? Where exactly does it say that in the bible? Because I always thought death was the penalty for SIN (as Romans 6:23 says).

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In order for Jesus to become the one for all sacrifice, He had to become as one of us, but not as a separate entity.

But he always was a separate entity, therefore he didn't have to "become" a separate entity. If you want to suggest that he WAS the same entity as God, then you have to produce the scriptural evidence that proves that.

All of Adams offspring were subject to the same penalty, so Jesus could not be of the same spirit as Adam, but of God.

Otherwise, as a lamb for the sacrifice, Jesus would have had a blemish.

I think everyone here agrees to this fact. But again, that doesn't address the topic (Did Jesus say he was God). Clearly the answer to the OP question is no, and clearly, a discussion about Jesus being the Son of God (which we all agree to) doesn't address that either.

 

[Shermana]

So far at page 764, nothing about Jesus saying he's God. We've seen some abuse of the "I am" statement which has been quickly corrected, but nothing else.

 

[BornAgain]

Yes. One is a declaration from Moses by God, and the other is a professed acceptance of that declaration. Your point?

You can't tell the difference, can you?

 

[BornAgain]

This is a perfect example of about all a Trinitarian is capable of doing when it comes to argument. If anything, your proof texts indicate clearly that God is not Three In One, but simply One.

It is you Trinitarians who have perverted God's word, and may He Himself show you who is preaching heresy. The Trinity is a delusion that has only been enforced by the edge of the sword and the fire of the stake, especially when it's officially "Too much for the human mind to understand".

All I asked you is this,

Can you tell/SEE the difference between the two?

Dt6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD
And,
'I believe with a perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, is an absolute one'

What made you say “If anything, your proof texts indicate clearly that God is not Three In One, but simply One”?

REALLY?

IS THAT YOUR FINAL ANSWER?