Debate the Logic of a World Order.

[TransmutingSoul]

There's a lot of things that have to change. Unless, we're all onboard to follow God's Baha'i plan, then why would a government or anybody do the right thing or the best thing, but instead do the wrong thing and try to make the most money by doing things cheaply, which would include using the cheapest labor. And with farms... who's going to pick the stuff? In a fair and just society, we can't have exploited people picking all our food.

This is the quandary with having choices CG.

I see are current choices show the failure of an old world order to sort out the problems faced by the world.

Everytime a crisis arises that needs a global action, all goes great when we work together, but this virus shows what happens when we choose not to work together.

That is how the plan of God unfolds. Within God's Word is the key to unlocking all the potential of our future, when we neglect or even reject it, all our actions allow the world of nature to becone our guide.

I see God's Word allows us to become in tune with this world and nature and the worlds and universes within and outside of this.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I addressed this in another post, admitting I overstated my case. The UN has done good things. However, it could be better. I'll just leave it at that and not address the rest of your post. I don't want to argue.

Thanks. It is a real challenge to be sure, this global harmony thing. Some of life's lessons have to be tough I guess. I do know I can change myself, to some degree, and I believe in the molecular theory of social change. Rarely is the path clear.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Lessor Peace? How's it going to be any better than the League of Nations and the UN? In the U.S. we can't even get along enough to get basic needs met. Half the country hates the other half and works hard not to let legislation pass that favors the other side. So how are nations going to do the right thing and do what's best for the whole world? So unless we all become Baha'is, who's among the rich and powerful is going to give up their wealth and position to let all people share in enough prosperity to live a happy secure life? Oh, and a major driving force in the world seems to be to get rich and powerful.

It appears that only convulsions and war give us the motivations to build a better world.

So maybe it will take a continued series of events, or one catastrophic event, to purge man from materialistic lifestyles?

The above to me is no longer a maybe, but a when.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

Father said when our brother in satanism forced science as anti force against gods body he ignored his own sun god reasoning against us. Science applied radiation conversion and we said we were cursed.

Family original DNA forced to separate and be lived with expression of new languages and bodies via irradiation effects.

We will never heal back to one obviously. You cannot return what had been destroyed. DNA origins the same.

So placating one and the same will not be met by order as order means today to demand.

As natural order means natural national DNA.

History was told for human reasoning. We had to work hard and humans implemented law of reason to brain entrainment to try to control human mind destroyer behaviours.

Scientific caused.

The story itself told and implemented training of consciousness only because of what occult science caused.

Family unity is as close to being correct as we can ever be. Not under any one state. As never did one exist diversity did naturally.

Humans owned one DNA form origins diversified our life. Proven wrong in science. Science we always taught evil occult beliefs.

Mutual is two balances.

So mutual unity makes more sense to consciousness as it depicts self survival. Two humans two for life.

Father said a sun evolving becoming what a sun does to evolve makes a sun highest state it's coldest until light no longer exists. Evolution by the light owner.

Hence the sun has not yet obtained its highest status. Being the science secret not taught in the public of sun worship.

Ignored.

It was the sun teaching as proof we are not meant to be in creation as evolution is to end light. Brothers purpose in science was to cause it.

Why we live so confused today knowing we are wrong knowing our minds lived confused and need assistance. Being spiritual assistance.

Why it was imposed. How it became entrenched in human law.

We were taught that teaching.

Why do you think science made the day light void and go Dark....
As their claim I am copying holy advice of light the sun.

The his story told us the truth. We knew documentation of occult attack is not natural or normal hence science uses its specific intelligence against us.

Claiming the act of the past not science. Really science brother? Why science reading the Bible as science terms are lying. As it was never meant to occur.

Sacrifice of life had ended life. Life ends itself in natural order naturally.

Science biology said holy C 100 years under Christ spirit was the truth.

No life was ever meant to be sacrificed.

Hence disputes in family life humans should not even exist.

The argument but life was sacrificed is just a human plea for life to never be sacrificed again.

 

[stvdv]

Baha'u'llah is talking about our journey in knowledge,

"... Split the atom’s heart, and lo!
Within it thou wilt find a sun.

The wayfarer in this Valley seeth in the fashionings of the True One nothing save clear providence, and at every moment saith: “No defect canst thou see in the creation of the God of Mercy: Repeat the gaze: Seest thou a single flaw?

Stvdv, 100% agreed with that statement and I see that is also the apex of knowledge in this world, that there is no flaw.

As such you may enjoy this from the Seven Valleys, the Valley of Knowledge by Baha'u'llah. (I started the quote at the Atom, as to me it shows science is contained within)

Thank you Tony,

I indeed appreciate you shared the quote.

Last month the focus was so much about "flaws in God, creation". This makes no sense at all to me, seeing all perfection in the Universe (not spinning out of control).

It all depends what kind of glasses we put on. If green, then the world looks green. If pink then the world looks pink. If Divine then the world looks Divine.

Seeing flaws in creation inhibits experiencing Divinity

 

[stvdv]

Baha'u'llah is talking about our journey in knowledge,

"... Split the atom’s heart, and lo!
Within it thou wilt find a sun.

The wayfarer in this Valley seeth in the fashionings of the True One nothing save clear providence, and at every moment saith: “No defect canst thou see in the creation of the God of Mercy: Repeat the gaze: Seest thou a single flaw?”

What about us poor humans? From my point of view it is our responsibility to make the world more perfect. God gave us free will and that is good, but we are collectively misusing it badly.

Tony's quote above is what I meant, as I explain below.

God gave us Free Will to change worldly vision in Divine vision. Naturally you'll act Dharmic and the world thereby gets "better"

Last month the focus was so much about "flaws in God, creation". This makes no sense at all to me, seeing all perfection in the Universe (not spinning out of control).

It all depends what kind of glasses we put on. If green, then the world looks green. If pink then the world looks pink. If Divine then the world looks Divine.

Seeing flaws in creation inhibits experiencing Divinity

 

[oldbadger]

So unless we all become Baha'is, who's among the rich and powerful is going to give up their wealth and position to let all people share in enough prosperity to live a happy secure life? Oh, and a major driving force in the world seems to be to get rich and powerful.

Bahai authority has not been known for rushing to assist the poor and homeless, CGD. In 1976 a homeless family asked the Bahai HQ (UK) at Rutland Gate, 'Can any Bahais give temporary accommodation to a couple and two children, or just a mother and two children?' The UK Secretary replied, 'We don't fund homeless!'
The couple replied, 'We don't need funding, only some urgent temporary accommodation.'
The Secretary replied ,'We don't give out cash.'

..... Locked in to some mammon based idea about not giving out money when the request was for any possible temporary accommodation.

If the Bahai Secretary (boss?) had just replied ,'I'll put the word out'. .... that would have been enough.

But he was gripping so tight to 'money', so hard, he never heard the question.

 

[Truthseeker]

Bahai authority has not been known for rushing to assist the poor and homeless, CGD. In 1976 a homeless family asked the Bahai HQ (UK) at Rutland Gate, 'Can any Bahais give temporary accommodation to a couple and two children, or just a mother and two children?' The UK Secretary replied, 'We don't fund homeless!'
The couple replied, 'We don't need funding, only some urgent temporary accommodation.'
The Secretary replied ,'We don't give out cash.'

..... Locked in to some mammon based idea about not giving out money when the request was for any possible temporary accommodation.

If the Bahai Secretary (boss?) had just replied ,'I'll put the word out'. .... that would have been enough.

But he was gripping so tight to 'money', so hard, he never heard the question.

This thread is not about some Baha'i secretary in 1976. Our resources are poor in 1976. The secretary also made a mistake, I think. But like I said World Order is not about Baha'is, it's about people of all walks of life, and the nations that represent them.

 

[oldbadger]

Debate the Logic of a World Order.

There is one!
It is in place!
Already!
Most of Mankind doesn't seem to be able to get on with it, though.

I think that the North American Indians, and the Northern Inuit, and all the earlier communities of Earth were at one with the World Order. But we think we know better.

And so the World Order will bring Order to the World all by itself, without our help.

Mother Nature.

 

[oldbadger]

This thread is not about some Baha'i secretary in 1976. Our resources are poor in 1976.

You're thinking like that secretary did!
He was gripping fast to resources too, TS.
All he had to do was ask around!

The secretary also made a mistake, I think. But like I said World Order is not about Baha'is, it's about people of all walks of life, and the nations that represent them.

The only World Order that Mankind is going to get is already in place, and getting ready to spank us all very hard.

Mother Nature.

But then, I'm a Deist so I'd say that.

 

[Truthseeker]

The Lessor Peace? How's it going to be any better than the League of Nations and the UN? In the U.S. we can't even get along enough to get basic needs met. Half the country hates the other half and works hard not to let legislation pass that favors the other side. So how are nations going to do the right thing and do what's best for the whole world? So unless we all become Baha'is, who's among the rich and powerful is going to give up their wealth and position to let all people share in enough prosperity to live a happy secure life? Oh, and a major driving force in the world seems to be to get rich and powerful.

The idea is that the world will get so bad because of resistance to an effective world order that will have the enforcement and rules to do away with war and principles to make decisions on things on things like climate change that affect everybody alike that momentum will be created to have such an order. It will be demanded from the leaders.

 

[Truthseeker]

think that the North American Indians, and the Northern Inuit, and all the earlier communities of Earth were at one with the World Order. But we think we know better.

There were at one with the natural world, and had a much more egalitarian society. But tribes still fought each other. They were ahead of us, but weren't perfect either. We all need to advance further.

 

[Truthseeker]

You're thinking like that secretary did!
He was gripping fast to resources too, TS.
All he had to do was ask around!


The only World Order that Mankind is going to get is already in place, and getting ready to spank us all very hard.

Mother Nature.

But then, I'm a Deist so I'd say that.

In the first part you ignored where I said the secretary made a mistake. Individual Baha'is and institutions aren't perfect.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Bahai authority has not been known for rushing to assist the poor and homeless, CGD. In 1976 a homeless family asked the Bahai HQ (UK) at Rutland Gate, 'Can any Bahais give temporary accommodation to a couple and two children, or just a mother and two children?' The UK Secretary replied, 'We don't fund homeless!'
The couple replied, 'We don't need funding, only some urgent temporary accommodation.'
The Secretary replied ,'We don't give out cash.'

..... Locked in to some mammon based idea about not giving out money when the request was for any possible temporary accommodation.

If the Bahai Secretary (boss?) had just replied ,'I'll put the word out'. .... that would have been enough.

But he was gripping so tight to 'money', so hard, he never heard the question.

Why did you see the need to post that OB, is it starting to look like Baha'u'llah had many great ideas, and is that a worry?



This passage should help to guide us back to the topic;

"True civilization will unfurl its banner in the midmost heart of the world whenever a certain number of its distinguished and high-minded sovereigns—the shining exemplars of devotion and determination—shall, for the good and happiness of all mankind, arise, with firm resolve and clear vision, to establish the Cause of Universal Peace. They must make the Cause of Peace the object of general consultation, and seek by every means in their power to establish a Union of the nations of the world. They must conclude a binding treaty and establish a covenant, the provisions of which shall be sound, inviolable and definite. They must proclaim it to all the world and obtain for it the sanction of all the human race. This supreme and noble undertaking—the real source of the peace and well-being of all the world—should be regarded as sacred by all that dwell on earth."

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

In the first part you ignored where I said the secretary made a mistake. Individual Baha'is and institutions aren't perfect.

Fair enough. I do acknowledge that you told me that.

 

[stvdv]

The only World Order that Mankind is going to get is already in place, and getting ready to spank us all very hard.

Mother Nature.

But then, I'm a Deist so I'd say that.

I have never called myself Deist, but I agree

 

[stvdv]

The idea is that the world will get so bad because of resistance to an effective world order that will have the enforcement and rules to do away with war and principles to make decisions on things on things like climate change that affect everybody alike that momentum will be created to have such an order. It will be demanded from the leaders.

That looks like the "New Normal" our leaders enforce on the world now

"True civilization will unfurl its banner in the midmost heart of the world whenever a certain number of its distinguished and high-minded sovereigns—the shining exemplars of devotion and determination—shall, for the good and happiness of all mankind, arise, with firm resolve and clear vision, to establish the Cause of Universal Peace.

That proves that it's not the "New Normal" they try to impose on us now. Glad to know that. Big relieve, better times ahead

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. the shining exemplars of devotion and determination ..

Who are these shining exemplars of devotion and determination who should get together? Biden, Putin, Xi, Kim, Boris Johnson, Macron, Imran Khan, Modi, Khamenei, Neftali Bennet, Crown Prince Salman?

Last month the focus was so much about "flaws in God, creation". This makes no sense at all to me, seeing all perfection in the Universe (not spinning out of control).
It all depends what kind of glasses we put on. If green, then the world looks green. If pink then the world looks pink. If Divine then the world looks Divine.
Seeing flaws in creation inhibits experiencing Divinity

Flaws in the world create problems, for and against.
1. Allah did not do his job properly.
2. Flaws facilitate advent of Manifestations.
If there are no flaws, God could not have sent prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Who are these shining exemplars of devotion and determination who should get together? Biden, Putin, Xi, Kim, Boris Johnson, Macron, Imran Khan, Modi, Khamenei?

I would say we have a little while to go and a few more convulsions to face, mankind is still to ready to ditch Covid-19 and get back to the old way of life.

That will not do, the old world order is defective and is dying, a new one rolls out in its stead with new realisations that what we are trying, is not working.

I see the following short quote must happen, do you see if it has? My guess is, you would offer the Baha'i Faith has not yet got the influence to be even considered for an onslaught, and I would also agree.

“How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause. Then shall the knights of the Lord, assisted by His grace from on high, strengthened by faith, aided by the power of understanding, and reinforced by the legions of the Covenant, arise and make manifest the truth of the verse: ‘Behold the confusion that hath befallen the tribes of the defeated!’”

But it may also mean people do not have to know of the Faith, it could mean arising against the principles taught in the Faith.

So we could be in the middle of that onslaught, and as the deterioration further sets in, many people will be looking for a path to unity, which the Baha'i have been offering since 1844.

Juat a thought, time will tell.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Path of Unity" (under their various banners) has been offered by monotheists since Akhenaten and Zoroaster. The marginal new banners among the Abrahamics are Bahai and Ahmadiyya. But they are not the only ones. Other faiths also have new banners. Banners are easiest to come by, since no proof is required. You just have to hoist a flag. Banners and Band Wagons.