Debate: If God exists, why does God allow so much suffering?

[Flat Earth Kyle]

For those complaining about the other thread being in Comparative Religion...
Have at it.

 

[Landerage]

God asks patience from his folowers, and even if they get hurt to have patience and faith that he will grant them success and an end to that suffery. And the sense of "pain" varies from a person to another, God is capable of doing everything including bring peace to a human being even if he's suffering. The story of Moses is a well example of this, when he went to the Pharon and battled the his wizards. The wizards were defeated by Moses snake given from God, those wizards beleived at instance in God even though the Pharon threatened to cut their legs and crucify them which I think he did, but they didnt care about that suffery because they knew God is on their side and heavan is waiting for them very soon =)

 

[K.Venugopal]

Man suffers in spite of his believing in God because man does not know who he (man) is.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

those wizards beleived at instance in God even though the Pharon threatened to cut their legs and crucify them which I think he did, but they didnt care about that suffery because they knew God is on their side and heavan is waiting for them very soon =)

Wow, I've never read that in the Old Testament anywhere. Where did you find that?

 

[Pegg]

because we have been separated from God and his governance. When his kingdom takes over rulerhship of the earth, then suffering will end.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away,...3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.

So to anyone who would rather live under the rulership of God, you need to become a subject of Christs kingdom...that would require that you forsake whatever current governments you are affiliated with and Vote 1 Jesus Christ!

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

because we have been separated from God and his governance. When his kingdom takes over rulerhship of the earth, then suffering will end.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away,...3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.

So to anyone who would rather live under the rulership of God, you need to become a subject of Christs kingdom...that would require that you forsake whatever current governments you are affiliated with and Vote 1 Jesus Christ!

Forsaking the Government? I don't think forsaking the Government will promote peace. If that is what you guys believe, I am quite surprized you guys haven't bought or found an island somewhere where you can forsake the Government. Anarchy isn't peace. That much I can say. A good example would be to look at the Pilgrims who came to the Americas. They tried to escape the Government, and instead formed another Government to promote peace. Funny how it works isn't it?

I do agree however, during Christ's Millennial reign there will be 1,000 years of peace in Christ's perfect Government.

 

[Pegg]

I do agree however, during Christ's Millennial reign there will be 1,000 years of peace in Christ's perfect Government.

well there ya go, there is always something to agree on..

So what do you think will happen to all our current governments during Christs 1,000 year reign?

 

[Looncall]

For those complaining about the other thread being in Comparative Religion...
Have at it.

Even just the unthinkable suffering in nature, where no questions of morality are involved, disproves the existence of the conventional god. If there is a god, it cannot be both all-good and all-powerful.

 

[Blackdog22]

I wish we could've switched the entire thread over to the debating forum instead of having a new one. We had a good thing going, but this will have to do.

Wow, you made some really good observations.
Things are exactly how I told you they were. God did intend for Adam and Eve to fall,which is why He allowed them to be tempted, however God did not create evil, and God did not want us to be His robots.

First off, thanks... I think?

Okay, so we can agree that God did intend Adam and Eve to fall. Then why did he punish them for doing exactly what he wanted them to do? If that is the point where sin entered the world then God would have to be the one responsible for sin, seeing as it is exactly what he wanted. I also wonder why God had to introduce them to such excellent place just to intentionally rip it away from them and them make them feel guilty for something that was actually his fault. That seems a bit cruel yes?

This would also mean that God is kinda playing us. What I mean is he intended sin to be brought into the world and then kinda acts like we should be uber grateful for him sending his son to fix something that he started. Not only was sending his son to "die" brutally a little overly dramatic, but why should we see this as anything more than God cleaning up his own mess, which if your like me, is a given. If I party with my friends then I am expected to clean up after myself the next day, no one falls at my feet and kisses them for me doing this.

I guess I am saying I find a very difficult time having any love for this being if he did happen to exist (which he could). He seems very dramatic and appears to set people up for things to force emotional responses, it all seems very, I dunno kinda childish I guess would be the word.

 

[jmvizanko]

Even just the unthinkable suffering in nature, where no questions of morality are involved, disproves the existence of the conventional god. If there is a god, it cannot be both all-good and all-powerful.

What he said. We wouldn't see people being tortured and killed by horrific diseases if god was all of the omni's. I don't know how anyone can believe that god is highly active in our world, yet doesn't seem to care about helping children with terrible diseases.

 

[Landerage]

Wow, I've never read that in the Old Testament anywhere. Where did you find that?

It's a story written in the Qur'an, if you haven't read the Qur'an yet really recommand doing it, asides being a religious and sacred book it's also a science and logic book and a great source of education.

 

[TheKnight]

Suffering exists for the purpose of allowing us to help others with their suffering.

 

[JMorris]

the whole point of existence is to create suffering. cuz god thinks its yummy.

 

[jtartar]

For those complaining about the other thread being in Comparative Religion...
Have at it.

yaddoe,
There is no doubt that God exists, we just need to understand what to look for, because this is a very interesting and vital subject, Rom 1:20.
When Adam and Eve decided to rebell against God, He let them go their own way. This means that God allowed Satan to become the ruler of the world, 2Cor 4:3,4, John 12:31, 14:30,16:11, 1John 5:19, Rev 12:9. Right after Jesus was anointed and baptized, he went into the wilderness and was tempted by Satan. Notice what Satan said to Jesus, trying to get Jesus to do an act of worship to him, Luke 4:5-8.
God has given mankind almost 6,000 years to see if they could rule themselves satisfactorily, or if they would be better off letting Satan rule instead of God. What would you say about the condition of the earth and mankind?? Are we steadily moving toward a paradise earth, with men loving each other and living in harmony, PEACEFULLY??? I don't think so!!!
You know what the most fantastic thing about this is: God's purpose is to make this world a paradise, and it is going to be accomplished in the same time that God purposed. You see, the last thousand years of this 7th created day is going to be The Judgement Day, Rev 20:1-6. During this time Satan will be in the abyss and some of mankind will live through The Great Tribualtion, Rev 7:14, but most of mankind will be resurrected back to life on earth, John 5:29,30. All mankind that will learn God's righteous ways will grow to perfection, and at the same time working to bring the earth to the paradise that has always been God's purpose.
When The Almighty God states a purpose it is certain to be accomplished, Isa 55:11, Isa 45:18, Ps 37:29.
So, mankind has gone through all these problems all this suffering, as things to remember. When anyone goes against God's laws, it will only be bad, quickly, or sometime in the future, for mankind is to limited in knowledge, and was never meant to rule other men. At armageddon the issue about who should rule earth, will be settled, once and for all time. Then the Judgement Day, then Satan will be destroyed forever, Rev 20:10, and all mankind then living will be granted everlasting life, and all happening within the 7,000 year period of the last creative day, all exactly as God purposed!!!

 

[BruceDLimber]

I would say suffering is for three main reasons:

• Some is indeed God-sent tests, as various scriptures state:

"Do men think when they say 'we believe,' they will be let alone and not put to proof?"

and

"God verily will sift them and tests them."

• Some is just random events, such as tornadoes and earthquakes.
• But MUCH of it is due to OUR OWN POOR DECISIONS AND ACTIONS! (which the free will God gave us permits).

Simple as that.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Looncall]

I would say suffering is for three main reasons:

• Some is indeed God-sent tests, as various scriptures state:

"Do men think when they say 'we believe,' they will be let alone and not put to proof?"

and

"God verily will sift them and tests them."

• Some is just random events, such as tornadoes and earthquakes.
• But MUCH of it is due to OUR OWN POOR DECISIONS AND ACTIONS! (which the free will God gave us permits).

Simple as that.

Peace,

Bruce

So what about the animals being devoured by predators and eaten alive by parasites? How are these a sign of a benevolent god?

A few weeks ago, I was canoe tripping in the arctic and saw where a grizzly bear had dug up a wolf den and eaten several cubs. How do you square their terror and agony with your supposed kindly god?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

So what about the animals being devoured by predators and eaten alive by parasites? How are these a sign of a benevolent god?

A few weeks ago, I was canoe tripping in the arctic and saw where a grizzly bear had dug up a wolf den and eaten several cubs. How do you square their terror and agony with your supposed kindly god?

during the great millennium of peace, it is said the lamb shall be able to lie down with the lion without any ire. Carnivores will become herbivores if I am not mistaken.

 

[waitasec]

during the great millennium of peace, it is said the lamb shall be able to lie down with the lion without any ire. Carnivores will become herbivores if I am not mistaken.

how will that work...
the need for food will be gone?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

yaddoe,
There is no doubt that God exists, we just need to understand what to look for, because this is a very interesting and vital subject, Rom 1:20.
When Adam and Eve decided to rebell against God, He let them go their own way. This means that God allowed Satan to become the ruler of the world, 2Cor 4:3,4, John 12:31, 14:30,16:11, 1John 5:19, Rev 12:9. Right after Jesus was anointed and baptized, he went into the wilderness and was tempted by Satan. Notice what Satan said to Jesus, trying to get Jesus to do an act of worship to him, Luke 4:5-8.
God has given mankind almost 6,000 years to see if they could rule themselves satisfactorily, or if they would be better off letting Satan rule instead of God. What would you say about the condition of the earth and mankind?? Are we steadily moving toward a paradise earth, with men loving each other and living in harmony, PEACEFULLY??? I don't think so!!!
You know what the most fantastic thing about this is: God's purpose is to make this world a paradise, and it is going to be accomplished in the same time that God purposed. You see, the last thousand years of this 7th created day is going to be The Judgement Day, Rev 20:1-6. During this time Satan will be in the abyss and some of mankind will live through The Great Tribualtion, Rev 7:14, but most of mankind will be resurrected back to life on earth, John 5:29,30. All mankind that will learn God's righteous ways will grow to perfection, and at the same time working to bring the earth to the paradise that has always been God's purpose.
When The Almighty God states a purpose it is certain to be accomplished, Isa 55:11, Isa 45:18, Ps 37:29.
So, mankind has gone through all these problems all this suffering, as things to remember. When anyone goes against God's laws, it will only be bad, quickly, or sometime in the future, for mankind is to limited in knowledge, and was never meant to rule other men. At armageddon the issue about who should rule earth, will be settled, once and for all time. Then the Judgement Day, then Satan will be destroyed forever, Rev 20:10, and all mankind then living will be granted everlasting life, and all happening within the 7,000 year period of the last creative day, all exactly as God purposed!!!

So you guys believe Satan will be destroyed, not just cast out? Where do you find this?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

"It appears there are several reasons why suffering occurs:
1. God causes it.
2. An individual brings it on himself.
3. Someone intentionally causes another person to suffer.
4. Human error may unintentionally cause suffering.
5. An act of nature precipitates the damage, injury, or death.
6. A mechanical malfunction causes an accident."