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Featured Dear theist, what ever your theology is, is God all loving?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Sanskrit is one of my favourite languages. One day, I might study one more language from the region like Hindi or Urdu just to converse. Maybe.

    Ah. Telungu. I have heard people speak in Malayalam, but I have no clue. I don't think I have heard telungu unless I did some day and am just ignorant so wouldn't recognise it.

    :handok:
     
  2. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    IF you had clicked the youtube link a few posts back, with "Love is God", then you probably heard Sai Baba speak Telegu:)
     
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I heard him speak, I didn't know the language. I don't even recognise it. So that why I said it may have heard it, but am ignorant of the language so I feel like I have never heard it.
     
  4. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    I see the love of God in creation. When I see how everything in the universe works - and there is so much of it we don't even know yet - that makes me believe in God's love.
    There are verses in the Bible that back it up like, 1 John 4:8 that says " God is love" but even without those verses, I can see that love all over nature, even in humans with so many flaws.
     
  5. Alien826

    Alien826 Older than dirt

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    Though I agree with the general drift of your post, I don't agree with your definitions.

    Unconditional love would be wanting the best for someone, without making the love itself conditional on good behavior. The perfect parent would apply punishment in a way that benefits the child, and not out of some sense of justice or retribution. To use your example, rewarding both children regardless of behavior would be the opposite of loving, as you stated, but punishment in the sense of correction need not and should not imply that the parent loves either child any less. In fact it may be harder to to punish the child and ignore the inevitable "I hate you" because the well being of the child is paramount, not your personal comfort.

    Conditional love on the other hand would be making the love itself dependent on the child's behavior. I would call that "manipulation", not love.

    If I was applying this to God, I would expect the same. God wants us to be "good" but realizes that sometimes punishment is necessary, but applies this from a position that puts our well being first. That's what bothers me about the concept of hell, as some religions have it. If there is no way out of hell, God has abandoned some of us. That's not very loving. I'm not claiming that is true of course, I don't have any religious views that get that detailed.

    I'll repeat that it's just your definitions I'm challenging, not the overall ideas.
     
  6. paradox

    paradox (㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)

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    This is good question, it is usually refuted with, god is all loving but also just.

    Ending up in hell is special though, it's God being just however it's also said biggest pain in hell is lack of God, I don't know if God still loves those in hell :/
    I assume if there is no God in hell then there is also no God's love, however the bible doesn't say much about what's happening in afterlife.
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Hmm. Yep. Good thought paradox. Thanks. I have to think about it.
     
  8. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Paraphrasing Mark Twain: "Nobody is so worthless that they can't be used as a bad example."

    God loves torture (see...God loves you).
     
  9. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    RE: God loving yet allows hell.

    Perhaps in the long run, souls repent in hell and are transported to heaven? If the choice is to burn forever or give up poker night and be with a lot of sanctimonious angels, then many would choose heaven (let me think about my choice for a bit--low heating bill...great conversationalists). God knows the future, and maybe worked out the best possible outcome (allowing the devil and hell)?

    What we perceive as a paradox might be a very simple choice for God.

    Paraphrasing Mark Twain: "go to heaven for the climate, and go to hell for the companionship."

    Twain postulated that harps would be difficult to carry around, and the constant din of discordant music from each angel would be irritating. Perhaps heaven is not as we perceived it?
     
  10. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    The second apologie to Balthazar Tylcken treating of the eternall predestination and election of God, and of the incarnation, or becoming man and person, of Christ, and concerning the Virgin Mary / written in the yeare 1621, finished the 3. of July by Jacob Behme, also called Teutonicus Philosophus ; Englished by John Sparrow.

    "God hated Cain and Esau, and loved Abel and Jacob."

    Is God all-loving? No. Loved some, hated others.

    Quite frankly, God ignores most, not caring to lift a mighty finger to abate suffering or to hasten the looming spectre of death.
     
  11. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Then love would have to be on a spectrum scale. . . from a tiny bit of love, to a great deal of love. Frankly, God's love for humankind is shaky, at best.
     
  12. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Eating bean curd, whispering in Farsi.
     
  13. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Just how many sentient beings does God take care of in the universe? Why haven't we received any radio signals from them? Are we really so unimportant that God has to ignore his unique creation?
     
  14. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    One of the greatest achievements of nature is balance. Too many predators would kill their food. I suppose that under normal conditions, things are self-balancing.

    Now we have mankind's influence, killing most of the life on the planet with Global Warming (denied by those who support oil billionaires), and pollution. I was thinking of moving to the eastern US, but look at all of the polluted water there. Look at all of the nuclear power plants. God made this world, and mankind is destroying it (love of mammon over God).

    How can God love us while we so deeply disrespect God's works?

    Are the Religious Right correct about rapturing to heaven and leaving behind a toxic waste dump where once God's beautiful nature existed?

    In the jungles of Brazil, brazil nut trees shade the rest of the forest (they are huge, and without their shade, the rain forest would roast). Brazil nut shells are too tough for the tree to sprout. The agouti (tiny animal) is the only animal tough enough to open the seeds so that brazil nut trees will sprout. The agouti is almost extinct. The Brazilian rainforest is disappearing, due to excessive logging, and that opens a gap in the canopy of the trees that allows water vapor to leak out, and that dries out and kills the rainforest. The trees of that forest are the "lungs of the world" providing a good portion of the oxygen that we breath, and for the sake of a small amount of money, they are tearing it down.

    Haiti is a desert, and the Dominican Republic is a lush tropical paradise and makes its money from tourism. It is the same island (two countries on one island). Haiti's environment was destroyed.

    About 95% of the old ice on the poles has melted. The poles are melting from the bottom up. We can't even see the devastation yet, just a hint here or there.

    The only thing keeping the earth cool is the ice. Once that completely melts, it will be like a furnace on earth. The Religious Right denies mankind's impact on Global Warming (and the greater intensity of hurricanes like Katrina). Global Warming is getting exponentially worse. As ice melts, it releases carbon dioxide (a greenhouse gas that traps heat). The oceans have a lot of carbon dioxide trapped in the cold waters at the bottom, but it only takes a few degrees Fahrenheit to cause that carbon dioxide to bubble to the surface and overheat the world.

    The end of the world, as the bible says, will come like a thief in the night. . . suddenly and without warning (well....we have plenty of warning, but the uneducated don't heed it).

    The great reefs are dying off due to rising waters. The poles are melting, and islands at the equator are inundated with water (drowned).

    Animals are migrating at the wrong time of year, and beyond their normal ranges. Forests burn, and dry out, and whole species are disappearing.

    If we don't love God any better than this, why should God love us?
     
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  15. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Some states have laws preventing spanking. Some people feel that spanking is not necessary to raise a child (contrary to Proverb 13:24).
     
  16. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Someone should invent a conditional love that doesn't need conditions.

    At what point do we stop ourselves from spanking our neighbor's kids (for their sake, of course)?
     
  17. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    That is totally your imagination, but makes no sense, and you can't logically conclude this from my quote

    I said:
    the definition does not speak about "Purity"

    Because

    the definition speaks about "lack of impurity"
     
  18. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Aha, understood.
     
  19. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Watch this week's Orville.
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I don't have the patience to watch week on week. ;) But maybe I will.
     
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