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Featured Dear theist, what ever your theology is, is God all loving?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    This definition does not speak about "Purity"
     
  2. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    First, I would say that there really isn't a scripture that says "if you sin and don't repent God still loves you" although God does love you even when you have sinned:

    Romans 5:8
    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    The statement of "you will never suffer consequences to your sins" is a half truth. Try murdering someone and you will still suffer for your sins.

    "Repent or not you are still taken care of" - is not "all loving" neither is it scriptural (in our faith).

    That is why I asked what is "all loving" since the above isn't all-loving
     
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Okay. thanks for giving your understanding of all-loving and the scripture. Really appreciate it. I shall take note of it for sure.
     
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  4. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    God is Love.

    From my scriptures:


    The Love of God

    2:5.1 (38.6) “God is love”; therefore his only personal attitude towards the affairs of the universe is always a reaction of divine affection. The Father loves us sufficiently to bestow his life upon us. “He makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

    2:5.2 (39.1) It is wrong to think of God as being coaxed into loving his children because of the sacrifices of his Sons or the intercession of his subordinate creatures, “for the Father himself loves you.” It is in response to this paternal affection that God sends the marvelous Adjusters to indwell the minds of men. God’s love is universal; “whosoever will may come.” He would “have all men be saved by coming into the knowledge of the truth.” He is “not willing that any should perish.”

    2:5.3 (39.2) The Creators are the very first to attempt to save man from the disastrous results of his foolish transgression of the divine laws. God’s love is by nature a fatherly affection; therefore does he sometimes “chasten us for our own profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness.” Even during your fiery trials remember that “in all our afflictions he is afflicted with us.”

    2:5.4 (39.3) God is divinely kind to sinners. When rebels return to righteousness, they are mercifully received, “for our God will abundantly pardon.” “I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.” “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God.” Urantia Book 1955
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Great. Thanks for quoting the Urantia Book.

    In your understanding is it stating that sinners will always loved no matter what? Are they all saved no matter what? Or only the "rebels return to righteousness" as your scripture says?
     
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I was only referring to Sanskrit. I don't know other languages. In Sanskrit, Vahini means how something is transported. The vessel or mode something is brought to you or someone. Let's say "Sathyavahini" means the bringer of truth.

    Anyway, when I have time, I will get the book down. Thanks for the reference.
     
  7. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I think God is all-loving, for example because:

    But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
    Mat. 5:44-45

    I think it means, God cares of all, and doesn't do anything evil, even for His enemies. This doesn't mean God accepts everything. God is just and righteous and will do what is right. And I think it means, He will end evil at one point.
     
  8. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    The understanding of the passage you quoted is that God is beyond good and evil. I mean, he is not doing the good in this passage, but he is making "his sun" rise on the evil and the good, and also sends rain on both righteous and the unrighteous. So this scripture seems to indicate that both are under him, but he is beyond. The rain and the sun he is causing upon both indicates that.

    What do you mean by "God does not do any evil"? What do you mean by evil in this case because you are associating it to something God does not do?
     
  9. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    No, only those who want to be saved. The choice is ours. One who is finally and decidedly unrepentant will not awake from the sleep of death, for ultimately "the wages of sin is death".

    And what is sin according to my scriptures?

    89:10.2 (984.5) Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty:
    *the partial loyalty of indecision;
    *the divided loyalty of confliction;
    *the dying loyalty of indifference;
    *and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.

    Those who completely reject salvation have no place to go in an increasingly spiritual universe.
     
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Okay. Thanks for that clarification. I am far behind on the urantia. so your clarification is necessary.

    Cheers.
     
  11. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    Hebrews 12:6

    It's about consequence of action and natural effects that not only apply to some, but all. I'm responsible for you no less than you're responsible for me. We coexist together, and we get hurt by others, but this doesn't negate God's love. What it does is motivates action, self discipline and control, as well as community efforts to counter the bad in a way best suited to help us live better lives.

    If I punch you, it may hurt, but that type of assault typically has consequences enforced by community chosen officials. Broken rules and consequence.

    How does Hebrews apply. It applies to all. Yeah, you're not the only loved person around here. I'm taking you to jail. God is us - all of us, and the world, universe, and everything else too.
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    So not "All loving" like the OP speaks of.
     
  13. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    Depending of how a person views God - so yes and no.
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    How do you respond to the description in the OP?
     
  15. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Humans can't fully grasp absolutes. So holding us to them, when stated, is silly.
     
  16. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    Personally? I think God is both personal and impersonal and that it seems silly to expect all rainbows and jelly bellies. Life requires friction for growth. Some make life more difficult than we like. We step in to counter as communities. It's always been this way as far as I can tell. Individual struggle and consequence for personal actions seem more relevant than not, but when my actions affect your well being, the result is typically unwanted. Community efforts are needed and are the crux of our involvement in "Gods" work,

    Love ... hmm ... well ... umm ... involves more than hugs, kisses, and warm fuzzies. It also protects others who are loved.
     
  17. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    I'll presume you are well enough aware that God condemns various behaviors that I don't need to cite those. 10 commandments would be one such example.

    As for living all yes there is a decent bit.
    Acts 10:
    34 ¶ Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

    35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


    Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

    Acts 17:
    25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

    Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    1 Nephi 17:35 Behold, the Lord esteemeth all flesh in one; he that is righteous is favored of God. But behold, this people had rejected every word of God, and they were ripe in iniquity; and the fulness of the wrath of God was upon them; and the Lord did curse the land against them, and bless it unto our fathers; yea, he did curse it against them unto their destruction, and he did bless it unto our fathers unto their obtaining power over it.

    Doctrine and Covenants 1:35 For I am no respecter of persons, and will that all men shall know that the day speedily cometh; the hour is not yet, but is nigh at hand, when peace shall be taken from the earth, and the devil shall have power over his own dominion.

    Doctrine and Covenants 38:16 And for your salvation I give unto you a commandment, for I have heard your prayers, and the poor have complained before me, and the rich have I made, and all flesh is mine, and I am no respecter of persons.
     
  18. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

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    There is conditional love and there is unconditional love. Unconditional love is a type of love that does not change no matter how good, nasty or perverse we get. Whereas, conditional love is dependent on certain conditions, and is often used to teach and lead us in various directions.

    As an example, an older child hits his younger brother with a toy and the younger brother starts to cry. The mother may give unconditional love to her two children. She picks up both and gives them both love. There is nothing learned from this, except that the little brat may think he can get away with this anytime mother is around. The younger brother may think he needs to be hurt to get love. It can get confusing to a person who is trying to understand the cause and affect of love.

    The father might choose to give conditional love. He also saw what the older brother did and he spanks him. He told him previously about the consequences, but the little brat did it again, and he had to get what he was promised, or his conditions for love would have been a lie.

    Later his Dad tells the older child, I do not like spanking you. If you stop hurting your brother, you and I will go out for ice cream. But if you do it again you will get another spanking. These extra positive conditions for love, help the child become more than a little brat. In the end, whose love was better for the child's long term well being; conditional or unconditional?

    Heaven and Hell is a type conditional love that was given to humans. It is still love that is concerned with the future of the soul. Say a child and then as a young adult, learns from these conditions for love and routinely choses the positive path for love. Eventually, the father can stop setting conditions, since his child is mature and is routinely good. Now this changes to unconditional love. Unconditional love is only good for babies, and for wisemen and wise women.

    The righteous man living by faith apart from the law is about the unconditional love, that one gets at spiritual maturity, that forms from the conditional love from the law. One then becomes free to follow faith, wherever it goes, and still feel the love from the Holy Spirit of God.
     
  19. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    For a moment I thought "wow @firedragon knows Sanskrit...very impressive", but then I thought "probably not, he knows that Sanskrit exists"

    Sai Baba gives discourses mostly in Telegu (Indian language), so it might not have the Sanskrit "vahini" meaning, although Sai Baba does use Sanskrit verses too (and on occasion English, Swedish (I heard myself), Chinese (from hearsay))

    You're welcome
     
  20. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    He certainly isn’t portrayed that way. I believe that the cosmic god is generally benevolent but not for us. God operates on a cosmic scale and we barely register.
     
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