1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Crossbreed atheism with spirituality

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by atanu, May 4, 2019.

  1. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    4,226
    Ratings:
    +2,483
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    The problem is to decide what 'spirituality' means. If all it means is tender concern for one's emotional state, then presumably some atheists will subscribe to that.

    If it refers to the 'soul', or the 'immaterial', or the 'supernatural', then perhaps there are people who are atheists in that they reject the reality of gods, but not the reality of the supernatural ─ I recall surveys showing that some atheists believe there's life after death, though philosophically I don't know how that's done.

    Otherwise I don't foresee much activity in the atheist spirituality market.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,055
    Ratings:
    +2,312
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    You suggest that there is only one kind of atheist?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,055
    Ratings:
    +2,312
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    I like to ask why would an atheist meditate? What in philosophical naturalism indicates that meditation can be beneficial? And do most atheists have a similar or common view on this?
     
    #43 atanu, May 4, 2019
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  4. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    4,226
    Ratings:
    +2,483
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    I have lunch with a Buddhist friend once every month or two, and he holds with non-supernatural Buddhism and also with meditation. As he tells it, some decades back he had work stress and high blood pressure, and noticed an article suggesting meditation could lower blood pressure without medication, which appealed to him. In the course of exploring kinds of meditation, he came to the Buddhist tradition, and has never looked back. Somewhat to my surprise, he has a mat and emblems which he uses for meditation, which rather reminds me of prayer, but he says he just finds them helpful shortcuts to where he wishes to be, meditationally.
    I'm not aware of any common view. I don't meditate ─ having tried it I find it boring ─ but plainly it suits a lot of people. (Although I still use a simple relaxation technique I picked up back then.)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,331
    Ratings:
    +914
    Religion:
    Spiritual Naturalist
    Doesnt spirituality have something to do with belief in something along the lines of a soul?

    Im an atheist, but i understand the motivations for a god to be real.

    I am spiritual because i regard something like a soul exists. Im willing to bet that atheists are not all alike and differ drastically from individual to individual.

    The reason i am a spiritual atheist is because there is simple and what used to be common language in spirituality. I find people become so scientific minded about life that its like trying to learn an alien language when talking to them.

    People are not individuals anymore they are mental states, and products of evolution, free will the illusion, identity an illusion also. Hard determinists, some people deny existence is real. Just reading through all the alien comments on social forums i think people are starting to lose all sense of commonality. Everything must be backed with so called foolproof data.

    Its like you have to write a research paper just to speak to someone. The knowledge explosion of today makes intellectuals seem infallible. I prefer plain language, people are way to deep in their own hubris. Spiritual atheist suits me just fine.

    I dont know how many times people have insulted other people over not knowing expert knowledge. Seems to me that intellectuals of today like to intimidate others with their expertise and uncommon knowledge. Instead of communicating their knowledge effectively and be respected for it.

    Words people dont like get changed around and abused, spirituality is an example of a much abused word.
    People have lost a sense of spirituality, and in the process kindness and manners. It is a sign of weakness that people like to bash other people with knowledge. I mean its a defensive thing to do.

    Language like spirit, soul, heart, mind, will, faith, love, joy, peace. These words get pummeled. People are too mechanistic. Spirituality does not have to be about anything mythical, mystical or fantastical.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    9,969
    Ratings:
    +3,223
    Religion:
    ☿ Mercuræn Buddhist & Ordained Pastafarian
    What does "know thyself" (meditation) have to do with atheism or theism? This is what I'm puzzled about.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,055
    Ratings:
    +2,312
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    You write “I prefer plain language, ....,,.”

    But I found your post delicious. :)
     
  8. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,331
    Ratings:
    +914
    Religion:
    Spiritual Naturalist
    It sums it up for me at least! Thanks!
     
  9. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,055
    Ratings:
    +2,312
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    Know thyself will likely lead one to the unborn chitta. But isn’t that out of scope of ‘empirical only’?
     
  10. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,055
    Ratings:
    +2,312
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    As per many spiritualists, truth is beneath the bundles of thoughts like this. :D or ;) or :p

    Emblems help to focus mind away from ever rising bundles of thoughts.

    The goal of meditation is relaxation. You might have (or might not have) noted that complete relaxation will lead you to lose the sense of boundary of your physical self. That happens with loss of tension, which is equal to our body/mind/self. Loss of tension is equal to loss of self ( but not loss of existence) — like it happens in deep sleep. In meditation it is supposed to be a conscious process wherein “I am meditating” thought is the sole obstruction.

    Sorry. Gave in to temptation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    10,966
    Ratings:
    +3,690
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    Understanding how something functions is useful to we humans because we survive and thrive by manipulating our environment to our own advantage, and by manipulating ourselves in relation to our environment. But the presumption that such knowledge is the sum of all truth, and that the physical functionality of the material realm defines what is 'real' from what is not, is blindingly limiting, and wildly inaccurate, to the degree that it denies the validity of human nature and perception, itself. And is thus perceived by many as being anti-human. It stinks of the kind of mechanical arrogance that lead fascist regimes in th past to justify eliminating their society's means of honest value assessment, through religion, philosophy, and art. We have been down this ultra-materialist, super-science road before, and it led us into one of the most inhumane and horrific eras in human history.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    9,969
    Ratings:
    +3,223
    Religion:
    ☿ Mercuræn Buddhist & Ordained Pastafarian
    No, meditation (at least insight meditation) is totally empirical.
     
  13. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,055
    Ratings:
    +2,312
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    Okay. I understand what you mean.

    I, however, distinguish between ‘clear seeing’ employing ‘vijnana’ (sensual-intellectual) versus ‘clear seeing’ employing ‘prajnana’ . The latter is empirical yet not limited to the sensual-intellectual.

    YMMV.
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,495
    Ratings:
    +5,004
    Religion:
    None
    Wouldn't it be more direct and honest
    of you to just say "Atheists are bad." ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,678
    Ratings:
    +2,308
    Religion:
    ?
    Not at all. I am speaking of the FACT that the word is a descriptor that reveals one specific attribute about the person it is being applied to.

    While "spiritual" is anything, everything... who knows what it implies? One thing? Ha! That'd be the day.

    And yet these authors are brash and dishonest enough to call atheist "an umbrella term." It simply isn't. Not in the way that "spiritual" most certainly is anyway.

    This is why I insist that to call "atheist" an "umbrella term" you have to already be of the mindset that some of the lies and misinformation spread about the term "atheist" are truly able to be applied to the definition. Which, to my mind, is proof that the authors of this article were not without biases and poor modes of thinking.
     
    #55 A Vestigial Mote, May 5, 2019
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,866
    Ratings:
    +2,055
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    To me spirituality means the flow of "Love". All humans can flow in "Love"
    So this includes Atheists, therefore this also includes Atheism
    So Atheism and Spirituality can go perfectly together
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  17. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,476
    Ratings:
    +1,411
    Religion:
    Christian
    Hasn't Dawkins and Dennett both made this point? I know Dennett at least has a book out about this.
     
  18. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,476
    Ratings:
    +1,411
    Religion:
    Christian
    For me atheism reveals a fundamental failure on the part of theism to grow up. Much of our religious literalism should be relegated to the realm of Santa Claus as transitional stories supported by our culture for children but transcended by adults into an adult understanding where literalism is contained within fantasy and not the other way around.

    Atheists who look to want to understand how one can effectively go about meaning making will need to look to religion as an expression of the arts and the arts as operating best on our imaginations when it incorporates modern experience and scientific understanding rather than forget or ignore it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,476
    Ratings:
    +1,411
    Religion:
    Christian
    What religion should be is a fostering of the experience of wonder, not authority, the teacher of inner, moral growth, not the believer in a specific moral code, the engager in the experience of modern life and not a hood or mask thrown over ones creative intellect...

    It may be that some atheists will need to school religions about how to grow up and let go of humanities' love of dogma in favor of actual personal human experience of the truth of "God's" creation.
     
    #59 sealchan, May 5, 2019
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,578
    Ratings:
    +980
    Atheism is a general non-belief in God, gods and deities. However this lack of belief does not necessarily guarantee spirituality.

    Atheism and spirituality can go perfectly together, when there is a well-established value system or code of virtuous conduct in the atheist belief set which is firmly adhered to. However this too is seemingly impractical in the west due to popular philosophies like nihilism and existentialism, which believes that all values and virtues are abstractly contrived and are part of mere social conditioning.

    As per eastern philosophy, on the other hand, proper virtuous conduct and behavior is potent on its own to bring the mind to meditative awareness and attain enlightenment, even for non-theists and agnostics.

    I have created a thread in this regard, citing the example of female enlightened master Rajini Menon who had attained enlightenment by strict adherence to virtuous conduct alone.

    Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on attaining enlightenment by adhering to virtuous conduct...
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...