Critique is a form of teaching....

[Spirit of Light]

For as long as i can remember i been disliking being critiqued for who i am, what i believe in, what i do what i say and so on. during the time today i reading RF comments on some of my own OP. and realized, Hey those guys are not mean, they have different opinion, different understanding of me, and what they do is expressing their views, expressing their opinion of what i write here. But even some comments was more personal toward me, it did not hurt as it used to do. I did not feel the "hate" i thought i felt before when reading critique.

If someone in the past said "you are not a true believer" that could be when i was a buddhist and it is now when i am a muslim, those kind of coments hurt the most. But today i realized, its their view of me, that does not mean it is true. So instead of being mad, i took the teaching in to my heart and embrace those words as teaching, not as a critique.

Critique only means a different approch to a topic, or a comment on something someone disagree with you on.
So if someone critique, it means you have more to learn, doen`t it?

 

[Audie]

For as long as i can remember i been disliking being critiqued for who i am, what i believe in, what i do what i say and so on. during the tie today i reading RF comments on some of my own OP. and realized, Hey those guys are not mean, they have different opinion, different understanding of me, and what they do is expressing their views, expressing their opinion of what i write here. But even some comments was more personal toward me, it did not hurt as it used to do. I did not feel the "hate" i thought i felt before when reading critique.

If someone in the past said "you are not a true believer" that could be when i was a buddhist and it is now when i am a muslim, those kind of coments hurt the most. But today i realized, its their view of me, that does not mean it is true. So instead of being mad, i took the teaching in to my heart and embrace those words as teaching, not as a critique.

Critique only means a different approch to a topic, or a comment on something someone disagree with you on.
So if someone critique, it means you have more to learn, doen`t it?

That was ego, my friend, immature egoism
that let you think criticism was about dislike
of you as a person.

Its more of the same egoism that drives you
to publicly express your self styled "spiritual
journey" in so many thread starts.

Now, personally, I see all these "spiritual paths'
as being profoundly egotistical, inward focused,
inherently antisocial.* Productive of nothing.

If you or anyone of our spiritual voyageurs
cannot see why I'd say that, it might behoove
them to spare a few percent,of their navel
gazing time to consider, what if she's right.

Enuf jumping up and down on you for now.

Praise time- very good to hear you've realized that
criticism is intended to be constructive. And about learning.

* a person immersed in their "spiritual
development" will be most unpopular in any
" Gung ho" (work together) enterprise.
Construction work, military, fishing boat,
you're gonna get thrown overboard.

 

[Twilight Hue]

For as long as i can remember i been disliking being critiqued for who i am, what i believe in, what i do what i say and so on. during the tie today i reading RF comments on some of my own OP. and realized, Hey those guys are not mean, they have different opinion, different understanding of me, and what they do is expressing their views, expressing their opinion of what i write here. But even some comments was more personal toward me, it did not hurt as it used to do. I did not feel the "hate" i thought i felt before when reading critique.

If someone in the past said "you are not a true believer" that could be when i was a buddhist and it is now when i am a muslim, those kind of coments hurt the most. But today i realized, its their view of me, that does not mean it is true. So instead of being mad, i took the teaching in to my heart and embrace those words as teaching, not as a critique.

Critique only means a different approch to a topic, or a comment on something someone disagree with you on.
So if someone critique, it means you have more to learn, doen`t it?

Not learn as much as developing a teflon personality. Critique can be constructive but not all the time. Think for yourself first.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That was ego, my friend, immature egoism
that let you think criticism was about dislike
of you as a person.

Its more of the same egoism that drives you
to publicly express your self styled "spiritual
journey" in so many thread starts.

Now, personally, I see all these "spiritual paths'
as being profoundly egotistical, inward focused,
inherently antisocial.* Productive of nothing.

If you or anyone of our spiritual voyageurs
cannot see why I'd say that, it might behoove
them to spare a few percent,of their navel
gazing time to consider, what if she's right.

Enuf jumping up and down on you for now.

Praise time- very good to hear you've realized that
criticism is intended to be constructive. And about learning.

* a person immersed in their "spiritual
development" will be most unpopular in any
" Gung ho" (work together) enterprise.
Construction work, military, fishing boat,
you're gonna get thrown overboard.

The feeling of dislike when someone critique, yes that is ego driven, so you are correct. To reduce or even "remove" ego is a long prosess, and a prosses that can cause pain. But it is a part of the spiritual "journey"

An other thing you may be correct in, is that for any spiritual or religious person who do enter a forum like RF, there will be a form of ego there, one is that a person can feel its good to be heard, and other can be a feeling of wanting to tell others about the spiritual teaching this person follows. So yes at least in the beginning there is ego driven. And i do not hide that i have had a to big ego in the past (probably still have to much)
But with study one "self" in discussion or debate, it is possible to learn a lot about the "negative side of ego"

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not learn as much as developing a teflon personality. Critique can be constructive but not all the time. Think for yourself first.

Can you lend me some teflon so i can make me a shield

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For as long as i can remember i been disliking being critiqued for who i am, what i believe in, what i do what i say and so on. during the tie today i reading RF comments on some of my own OP. and realized, Hey those guys are not mean, they have different opinion, different understanding of me, and what they do is expressing their views, expressing their opinion of what i write here. But even some comments was more personal toward me, it did not hurt as it used to do. I did not feel the "hate" i thought i felt before when reading critique.

If someone in the past said "you are not a true believer" that could be when i was a buddhist and it is now when i am a muslim, those kind of coments hurt the most. But today i realized, its their view of me, that does not mean it is true. So instead of being mad, i took the teaching in to my heart and embrace those words as teaching, not as a critique.

Critique only means a different approch to a topic, or a comment on something someone disagree with you on.
So if someone critique, it means you have more to learn, doen`t it?

You know an interesting time consuming exercise you could do?

Go through a lot of your posts and comments to your posts and write down the messages of what people try to tell you and what to learn to improve your spiritual understanding.

With the ego, while doing so try not to interpret it to sound comfortable in your ears. For example, when someone says the quran says negative X. Maybe it does literally and spiritually. Nothing wrong with that if coming from god, I'd assume. Why would god say such a thing? What's the lesson he is giving through some of these insightful objective comments about my faith?

Another insight. Awhile back I kept telling myself I need to change my diet. So, I tried dripping sweets, sodas, fast foods. It worked only when I exercised but I slipped.

Then I read that instead of focusing and relieving the bad stuff, start incorporating the good stuff regardless the slip ups. So, I started putting healthy foods in between the slips. Then it became more healthy foods than unhealthy. Now, no soda, barely no fast food, and no donut for over couple years.

My point is instead trying to drop the ego first like fast food start putting good stuff in your practice. The ego thing in your posts will weed out and the spiritual stuff will take its place. Trying to do stripping ego too soon is like trying to drop candy overnight. Sugar withdrawal.

Anyway, maybe I was a teacher in a past life, but nonetheless, keep up the good work.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Can you lend me some teflon so i can make me a shield

You will need to punch the bag yourself. Take a few hits.

You will be smiling like a prize fighter.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You know an interesting time consuming exercise you could do?

Go through a lot of your posts and comments to your posts and write down the messages of what people try to tell you and what to learn to improve your spiritual understanding.

With the ego, while doing so try not to interpret it to sound comfortable in your ears. For example, when someone says the quran says negative X. Maybe it does literally and spiritually. Nothing wrong with that if coming from god, I'd assume. Why would god say such a thing? What's the lesson he is giving through some of these insightful objective comments about my faith?

Another insight. Awhile back I kept telling myself I need to change my diet. So, I tried dripping sweets, sodas, fast foods. It worked only when I exercised but I slipped.

Then I read that instead of focusing and relieving the bad stuff, start incorporating the good stuff regardless the slip ups. So, I started putting healthy foods in between the slips. Then it became more healthy foods than unhealthy. Now, no soda, barely no fast food, and no donut for over couple years.

My point is instead trying to drop the ego first like fast food start putting good stuff in your practice. The ego thing in your posts will weed out and the spiritual stuff will take its place. Trying to do stripping ego too soon is like trying to drop candy overnight. Sugar withdrawal.

Anyway, maybe I was a teacher in a past life, but nonetheless, keep up the good work.

I like the idea of looking back at posts and OP i have made in the past, to both see what i said and understand why i was "wrong" at that time, or why my understanding is different today

 

[WalterTrull]

spare a few percent,of their navel
gazing time

On the other hand, navels can be quite revealing.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That was ego, my friend, immature egoism
that let you think criticism was about dislike
of you as a person.

Its more of the same egoism that drives you
to publicly express your self styled "spiritual
journey" in so many thread starts.

Now, personally, I see all these "spiritual paths'
as being profoundly egotistical, inward focused,
inherently antisocial.* Productive of nothing.

If you or anyone of our spiritual voyageurs
cannot see why I'd say that, it might behoove
them to spare a few percent,of their navel
gazing time to consider, what if she's right.

Enuf jumping up and down on you for now.

Praise time- very good to hear you've realized that
criticism is intended to be constructive. And about learning.

* a person immersed in their "spiritual
development" will be most unpopular in any
" Gung ho" (work together) enterprise.
Construction work, military, fishing boat,
you're gonna get thrown overboard.

I read (I read a lot, it seems) about spiritual awakening and how one can be on a cloud for days or months even in a chocolate factory of spiritual bliss.

Then the bomb drops and the person goes through such severe depression that they almost leave their awakening and go to where they're most comfortable. I wonder if spiritual boasting, if one wants to call it that, leading up to that drop.

All in all, I think the most important part is getting through the drop-thats the spiritual growth. Spiritual boasting is an ego thing but if it's not a barrier, maybe it's necessary.

 

[Nimos]

Critique only means a different approch to a topic, or a comment on something someone disagree with you on.
So if someone critique, it means you have more to learn, doen`t it?

It depends on what they refer to, if it's your opinion about a given thing and they disagree, surely it might mean that you lack knowledge about that topic, but could just as well mean that they are wrong, that will require credentials of some sort. For instance, if you state your opinion about quantum physics and you are talking with a scientist educated in it, there is a good chance that you lack knowledge and the critique or feedback is valid.

But if its someone saying that "you are not a true believer" that is pure arrogance, for which such person have no knowledge or credentials for saying, so it seems reasonable to be upset about it, if the person keeps telling you what you are and isn't, if that annoys you. Personally, I will probably comment on it, but for the most case, I will just ignore such critique as is not worth spending time on.

What is important when discussing with people is to sort between them having a go at your opinions and them having a go at you personally. Often people will take it personal, if you disagree with their opinions, because it can be taken as a personal attack on their intellect and what they stand for.
I guess most have experiences this one way or another. But I think one can train it and get better at separating these, and eventually it won't really bother you and will also make for much more constructive talks.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It depends on what they refer to, if it's your opinion about a given thing and they disagree, surely it might mean that you lack knowledge about that topic, but could just as well mean that they are wrong, that will require credentials of some sort. For instance, if you state your opinion about quantum physics and you are talking with a scientist educated in it, there is a good chance that you lack knowledge and the critique or feedback is valid.

But if its someone saying that "you are not a true believer" that is pure arrogance, for which such person have no knowledge or credentials for saying, so it seems reasonable to be upset about it, if the person keeps telling you what you are and isn't, if that annoys you. Personally, I will probably comment on it, but for the most case, I will just ignore such critique as is not worth spending time on.

What is important when discussing with people is to sort between them having a go at your opinions and them having a go at you personally. Often people will take it personal, if you disagree with their opinions, because it can be taken as a personal attack on their intellect and what they stand for.
I guess most have experiences this one way or another. But I think one can train it and get better at separating these, and eventually it won't really bother you and will also make for much more constructive talks.

The comments that are of more negative form do not affect me anymore (not right now anyway) And since this is a discussion forum i think its no problem they have their opinion of me, they may be correct from time to time, so it is better for me to look within my self, and ask, why do they have this opinion about me, insted of attacking them back, something i did a lot in the past.

 

[icehorse]

Now, personally, I see all these "spiritual paths'
as being profoundly egotistical, inward focused,
inherently antisocial.* Productive of nothing.

Many of these paths are inward focused, and I see your point in those cases. But many paths have to do with learning better interaction skills and attitudes. I was (still am), a huge fan of Ram Dass, and I think he suggested that a large part of your "path" had to be focused on how to better interact in the world.

 

[Thief]

So if someone critique, it means you have more to learn, doen`t it?

not always

the Carpenter taught in parables
and every now and then the crowd realized toward whom the scenario was aimed at

it didn't always go well

 

[Audie]

The feeling of dislike when someone critique, yes that is ego driven, so you are correct. To reduce or even "remove" ego is a long prosess, and a prosses that can cause pain. But it is a part of the spiritual "journey"

An other thing you may be correct in, is that for any spiritual or religious person who do enter a forum like RF, there will be a form of ego there, one is that a person can feel its good to be heard, and other can be a feeling of wanting to tell others about the spiritual teaching this person follows. So yes at least in the beginning there is ego driven. And i do not hide that i have had a to big ego in the past (probably still have to much)
But with study one "self" in discussion or debate, it is possible to learn a lot about the "negative side of ego"

A person needs a healthy mature ego.
Trying to deny human nature, bury and
eliminate it is as self destructive as it is
to get holy by sitting on a rock growing fingernails two ft long.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

For as long as i can remember i been disliking being critiqued for who i am, what i believe in, what i do what i say and so on. during the time today i reading RF comments on some of my own OP. and realized, Hey those guys are not mean, they have different opinion, different understanding of me, and what they do is expressing their views, expressing their opinion of what i write here. But even some comments was more personal toward me, it did not hurt as it used to do. I did not feel the "hate" i thought i felt before when reading critique.

If someone in the past said "you are not a true believer" that could be when i was a buddhist and it is now when i am a muslim, those kind of coments hurt the most. But today i realized, its their view of me, that does not mean it is true. So instead of being mad, i took the teaching in to my heart and embrace those words as teaching, not as a critique.

Critique only means a different approch to a topic, or a comment on something someone disagree with you on.
So if someone critique, it means you have more to learn, doen`t it?

I'd call this a huge breakthrough for you. Yes, criticism can be constructive. I'd say most of the comments you receive are sincerely believed and offered constructively. You may not agree, but seeing it as an attack as you have usually framed it in the past was going down the wrong road and closing the door to the potential help of others.

You and I agree on very little, and I have rebutted you frequently, but have always understood that you considered me an enemy, one of those mean atheists gunning for you that just won't let you pursue your path in peace, the kind you recently said made you shiver and recoil. This is a better demeanor for you, more receptive.

Incidentally, I don't believe that I have ever critiqued your religious beliefs. Frankly, I don't know what they are. Never knew what Falong Gong was. Don't know about your Muslim walk, but I think you consider yourself Sufi.

But none of that matters to me. When I have critiqued you, it's mostly been for the attitude you seem to be shedding - overly defensive and sensitive, seeing critics as enemies, seeing atheists as enemies. Good for you.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'd call this a huge breakthrough for you. Yes, criticism can be constructive. I'd say most of the comments you receive are sincerely believed and offered constructively. You may not agree, but seeing it as an attack as you have usually framed it in the past was going down the wrong road and closing the door to the potential help of others.

You and I agree on very little, and I have rebutted you frequently, but have always understood that you considered me an enemy, one of those mean atheists gunning for you that just won't let you pursue your path in peace, the kind you recently said made you shiver and recoil. This is a better demeanor for you, more receptive.

Incidentally, I don't believe that I have ever critiqued your religious beliefs. Frankly, I don't know what they are. Never knew what Falong Gong was. Don't know about your Muslim walk, but I think you consider yourself Sufi.

But none of that matters to me. When I have critiqued you, it's mostly been for the attitude you seem to be shedding - overly defensive and sensitive, seeing critics as enemies, seeing atheists as enemies. Good for you.

Thank you @It Aint Necessarily So
It is true that i am in a prosess of leaving the "being afraid of critique" that has been a part of me all my life, And i believe it has to do with me being more open to what others say to me. Not only thinking "oh they must be wrong"

Seen you as my enemy Hehe you never been an ememy to me nor has those other people in RF who critiqued me of this years i been here. A pain the butt, yes maybe in the past but never an enemy (PS non of you are a pain in my butt anymore)
I do think i become more of a listner to those who speak with me, than a person only wanting to be heard.
It is true that i sometimes closed my ears and would not listen even i knew others was correct and i wasn`t

 

[Audie]

Thank you @It Aint Necessarily So
It is true that i am in a prosess of leaving the "being afraid of critique" that has been a part of me all my life, And i believe it has to do with me being more open to what others say to me. Not only thinking "oh they must be wrong"

Seen you as my enemy Hehe you never been an ememy to me nor has those other people in RR who critiqued me of this years i been here. A pain the butt, yes maybe in the past but never an enemy (PS non of you are a pain in my butt anymore)
I do think i become more of a listner to those who speak with me, than a person only wanting to be heard.
It is true that i sometimes closed my ears and would not listen even i knew others was correct and i wasn`t

Them ears is still 99 percent sealed and guarded.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Them ears is still 99 percent sealed and guarded.

Ok? In what way?

 

[PureX]

Critique is a method of learning for both the giver and the receiver, if it's done right.