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Creation vs. Evolution

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rex, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Ceridwen018: I didn't say you were arrogant. I wanted to say teenagers usually are cos probably their hormones are shouting louder or because they are learning things they consider "new" and grabbed to those ideas. There's nothing new under the Sun. I admitted you are someone who reads and I'm encouraging (perhaps I was too emphatic) to go beyond the average.
    The people here talk about evolution thinking the concept was originally invented by Darwin. Ignorance again & again & again. He studied the thing, of course but he wasn't the first having the idea. It already existed in India and in Buddhism, even the idea of "spontaneous generation". (just to warn the people who diminush the ancient concepts) . Darwin himself was irritated and promoted "his" idea immediately after Pasteur (who believed in Creation) discovered there is no "spontaneus generation" but life comes from already existing invisible life. Yet, the people don't even compared the dates and never learned the "struggle" between them. Of course, probably NOW someone is gonna do the homework, search something by internet and instantly will know everything about it....something I already read 3 decades ago before internet was available.
     
  2. inca

    inca Active Member

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    I encourage you to read Darwin first and study the idea or concept. Now evolution was "adorned", disguised, transform with modern and impressive names. Don't be deceived. Darwin thought the changes-adaptation or mutation will be so great that different species which are not connected whatsoever will eventually (because of time and X circumstances occuring on nature) transform into other: fishes-birds-reptiles-anphibious-mammals-man. Genetic has demonstrated in numerous ocassions that is imposible or even very improbable EVEN BY DIRECT GENETIC MANIPULATION. If in any case the mutation, adaptation transform one specie into another by those means, that never happens in natural condition. So, if one day that achievment is done, it would demonstrate not evolution whatsoever but a direct genetic creation.
    I have said the information decoded by billions of neurons and conections in the brain is something that even make the surgeon specialists or neuro-specialist bow in awe admiration , even comparing that with the number of atoms in the universe. So, there was something more that was the difference between apes and man. The links I posted gave the specific information, the fact we have 223 genes that are not in evolutionary tree in the vertical progression, 25 to 35 proteins of the genes are exclusively human. The creation of several Adamus or Adapas needed an external interference, an external manipulation, the use of specific method (even using clay and the blood of the "gods"). The fact that modern scientific knowledge is only corroborating what was explained in ancient books of different people in different languages is something not to be overlooked. And the ones who discover those things are not inventing.They are just allowing the people to be aware of those scientific facts.
    For example, the people when they read the Bible they don't know the word "snake" is "nahash" while copper is "nehoshet". They ignore -and that is not a sin, it's just a fact- the hidden meaning of "snake" is "the one who knows the secret of copper". In Egypt, the snake was wrapped around a stick in the depiction of VIRGIN Isis, one helper of the goddess grabbed a single snake in a stick while the other grabbed another. What was that?
     
  3. inca

    inca Active Member

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    In the act of conception, when spermatozoid penetrates into the egg cell of the female, the DNA double snake made of "sugar" splits and one of the halves have to be united with the other half to form a new double helix and thus Horus was born. The sceptres meant that. Not too many people are aware some civilizations although they knew iron they prefered the use of copper for reasons I don't wanna explain. Perhaps Nikolai Tesla knew something about it:
    www.keelynet.com/unclass/hardy1.htm
    www.totse.com/en/fringe/tesla/hardy1.html
    www.dowsing.com/Pyramid/pyener.htm
    In Sumer, before Egypt, the snake "nahash" was also the one who knew secrets and there was a sanctuary of "emash" (the sound with "sh" is always present in different languages related to the same god-snake). In Egypt the symbol of the god Ptah was DNA double snake helix. The antiophidian medicine used by Moses (who learned in Egypt) to cure the ones bit by venom snakes was a copper-snake (Numbers 21:6-8). In fact that copper-snake (not bronze as translated in some Bibles) was on exhibition in Jerusalem museum. The son of Mary (in a different procedure of parthenogenesis) talked about himself that to give LIFE (the seed of life from the very Genesis and the struggle between the offspring of the woman against the snake) he had to die. He compared himself with Moses' copper snake (John 3:14). That symbol was known by Incas, Mayas and other civilizations. In fact, the Moches in Peru (as in Mexico, etc) they used "empirically" electricity to golden the copper for reasons too long and too off the theme to write it here and now. But to say it cut to the chase, the objects usually were used in complete darkness and a common architectural "method" was polishing the stones to keep the light off the temples. In complete darkness the "eyes" are opened. We call melatonine the substance originated by pituitary gland. The name comes from Greek and means something working (activate) by night. Serious experiences have confirmed the electromagnetism of the Earth has been affecting all the time the hormons of human beings...including the ones of FERTILITY. No surprise the ancient people were heliolaters cos the Sun is the direct responsible of changes in our planet.
     
  4. inca

    inca Active Member

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    www.mauricecotterell.com/synopsis02.htm
    www.mauricecotterell.com/synopsis03.htm
    I have to say that scientist and engineer is not an amateur. He's someone recognized cos in 1989 he discovered how to calculate the duration of magnetic changes in the Sun. BECAUSE OF THAT KNOWLEDGE he became aware the ancient civilizations already knew the secret, so I encourage you to read "The Lost Tomb of Viracocha", "Supergods" and "Tutankhamon Prophecies" just to know a bit more of religion. You know, culture doesn't bite. Even the orthodox authorities in Mexico awarded him with a medal for his contributions to "Voluntariado Cultural".
    The guy quotes the work of experts in genetic field like the team led by A.R. Lieboff in Navy Medical Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland and professor Hans Eysenck from London Institute of Psichiatry, also Dr. Ross Aidey, medical advisor of the White House in Reagan's government who discovered in 1987 the production of melatonine is affected immensely by magnetic fields. Yet, all these things were not only known but practiced in ancient civilizations and I don't think I have to demonstrate that in this issue. All what I'm saying now, is the use of certain elements in specific shapes (like copper, pyramids, polished stones to "join" them perfetly producing darkness) under certain circumstances and times (solstices, equinoxes, eclipses) were done on purpose to achieve some things. The evidence is ruins that archeologists are unable to re-build NOT EVEN WITH MINIATURES AND MOCK UP EXPERIENCES (if you don't believe me, pay History Channel and wait to see more). They never said they invented the knowledge or discovered everything they "achieved". Usually they attributed to the "gods"; whether modern criteria accept or not what they manifetsed themselves is completely irrelevant.
    They also had legends that explain how life come on Earth...because of the gods. But, as usual, people only "digest" what is (spoon fed) in the surface.
    North America is the result of the coming of English pioneers who wanted to stablish a home for themselves. They were Protestants. They wiped out almost all different kind of indians who really didn't have civilizations like Mexico or Peru, Bolivia, etc. To Central and South America went the Spaniards and Portuguese who were fed up to fight more than 800 centuries against the Muslim arabs. They belonged to the Catholic church which was a religion on its way down the road in Europe. They didn't go just to stablish a paradise for themselves in the difficult jungle and Dantesque climate. They went to "preach" the religion to the new settlements and make fame & fortune at the same time, using indian slaves first and black slaves imported from Africa afterwards. So, usually most Americans (exceptions confirm the rule) don't have too much knowledge about this particular history. You will love to see the film "ALAMO" cos is part of your history but who the hell wanted to see "1492 the Conquest of the Paradise" about Christopher Columbus? Not even the ones living in Ohio who have the "caravela" ship replica ! Is it still there?
    Therefore, my request is: be humble and learn first. Then after you can write or discuss about whatever you want.
    I think I will end my participation right here but since the issue here was CREATION and not just creation of animal species, the theme should've began back in space-time. Hence, would you like to rewind the space-time tape?:
     
  5. inca

    inca Active Member

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    You can follow the theme during 9 pages under my name, Oscar. You will read not only about Big Bang but specific ancient knowledge given by the "gods". Of course, you will see other people react and have different opinions and the debate continued and continued and continued until I was not allowed to respond no more and the threat was closed by the Moderator. But who really WANTS TO READ AND SEE A DIFFERENT OPINION? I tell you now. Not many. Only the few who have the patience to understand. That's why ignorance is predominant, people just don't wanna "waste time". If I'd thought that way, I would've never learned 3 languages or would be interested in learn a 4th one, Russian.
    www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=22384&page=1&pp=15
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I really would like to stop my participation. I hope I can restrain myself from keep on answering...
     
  6. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Before going..., Spinkles, don't confuse "good manners" with "intelligence". They are not synonyms.
     
  7. inca

    inca Active Member

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    And IF YOU EVER finishing reading all that, you still wanna know something else (probably 1% of the eventual readers here) you still have too much homework to do:
    About what Hebrew language refers to "tanniynim" in the "pardes" (dinosaurs in Jurassic Park):
    www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-241.htm
    http://s8int.com/dinolit1.html
    (that one is 7 pages to check with real photos, not hoaxes)
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/evolutio.htm
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/dragon.htm
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/framset14.htm
    http://s8int.com/dino1.html
    (8 pages to be seen with more photos)
    http://s8int.com/mega1.html
    (3 pages to follow with even more astonishing photos and explanation)
    www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr2003/r&r0302a.htm
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons
    Wanna read about false fossils and what are fossils?:
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/birdbone.htm
    http://evolition.cjb.net
    http://s8int.com/boneyard1.html
    Fossiles "alive":
    www.icr.org/pubs/btg-a/btg-143a.htm
    Sophisticated cave men:
    http://s8int.com/sophis1.html
    (10 pages to be studied)
    DNA versus evolution:
    http://s8int.com/dna1.html
    (3 pages to be studied).
    Of course I can literally make HUNDREDS of references in books and sites, and names and pages. This is just a sample. Of course, I guess someone NEEDS to give a quick reply. He wouldn't even take hours of his time in order to study and check, even printing the information to read it calmly and not with tired eyes in front of the screen of the desktop, but will immediately answer something in less than 5 minutes.
    :talk: :clap:
     
  8. inca

    inca Active Member

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    I wonder, how many pseudo-evolutionists ever heard about the Meganthropus and Gigantopithecus. Certainly this is not gonna be shown in museums with the official authorities protecting the same old dogmas. If in Jalapa museum in Mexico they hid a toy with elephant figure done by Mayas (cos the public was asking how come if Mayas supposedly never went to India or Africa and they didn't receive the presence of Hindus and African before Columbus), they prefered to hide it. The same can be said about the dungeons in Smithsonian Institute not visited by the tourists. You're not gonna see elephant designs in museums in Colombia or Ecuador although not one or two but several have been discovered there too.
    www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/jpg/fig128.jpg
    www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/jpg/fig131.jpg
    www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/jpg/fig133.jpg
    http://hesyra/djoserempfoto.jpg
    www.equinox-project.com/esop81.htm
    I hope they didn't ERASE it from the web as always do after a time as they did with a couple of sites I had. It's obvious the expert archeologists and historians MUST give another stupid interpretation, they will invent that Chaac Mool Maya god was a parrot (with proboscide!!) or a rattle-snake or even a bat! If they do that with history, imagine what they can do with pre-history.
     
  9. inca

    inca Active Member

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    You decide if mastodont or elephant. That's why elephant tou was eliminated from Jalapa museum. The people could ask irritating questions!
    I think I'll rest my case.
     
  10. Mr Spinkles

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    >>Before going..., Spinkles, don't confuse "good manners" with "intelligence". They are not synonyms.<<

    inca, I swear I never ONCE confused your good manners with intelligence.
     
  11. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Good to know. Something else to add in scientific approach? No? It figures!
     
  12. inca

    inca Active Member

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    But I will have some fresh new to give:
    Hummingbirds who didn't change in 30 million years of pseudo-evolution and "striking resemblance" after that alleguedly constant "change" . They guess the SIZE was cdue to climate changes. I SAY, indeed more than that, the aspect of science shall be answered not by paleonthologists but by geologists regarding the whole planet Earth:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3691169.stm

    Neanderthal who had the crown of their teeth formed 15 % FASTER than we do now but the interpretation required a further explanation:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3663865.stm

    Someone was making fun of the knowledge 1000 years ago, perhaps needs to know what was the source of an accurate map done in 16th Century with information we are learning NOW:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3683087.stm
     
  13. inca

    inca Active Member

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    ...or a Chinese map made 1300 years ago with the same 12 divisions of the "heavens" as in other cultures, something of a knowledge based upon earlier documents "revealed" by the gods:
    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/story.jsp?story=517627
    Interesting indeed and not off topic cos "Creation" includes "heavens and Earth". And the counting of the kings or gods with long life span as in the Bible, Sumerian and Chinese account will reveal many things that are invisible for the ones who don't know.
     
  14. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    funny how you keep posting the same creationist web sites over and over (eaven though you clame to not be pushing creationism) and not forming your own arguments...

    anyway... about this website :
    http://www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/evolutio.htm

    the pic on the top right is an admitted forgery... done by the same people who did the effect for the BBC's 'walking with dinosaurs'...
    the pic below that of the 'smiling sea dragon' is of a bottle nosed whale... a rather rare whale species that washes up on shore from time to time..
    heres a picture of one:

    the unkown armor plated fish.. is in fact a Sturgeon.. best known for providing the world with caviar... Here is a picture:

    The idea that the komodo dragon is a dinosaur and not a veranid lizard is just silly...
    And I love how the pictures of the 'civil war pterodactyl' never have any fur... Its now known that they had fur on thier bodies... but it wasn't discovered untill the late 80's...

    as for anchient people and the twisting snake model... well have you ever seen snakes fight?
    they do so by twisting thier bodies around one another and wrestling for dominance...
    some pictures of this:
    http://www.brantacan.co.uk/AddersM2.jpg
    http://www.brantacan.co.uk/images/Contest5.jpg
    I find this to be the more plausibel explanation for the symbol...

    and for historic accounts of flying lizards and snakes... well they do exist.. in the jungles of asia
    the 'flying lizard' Draco...
    http://www.centralpets.com/pages/critterpages/reptiles/lizards/LZD2644.shtml
    and flying snakes:
    http://student-www.uchicago.edu/~jjsocha/flyingsnake/flyingsnake.html

    wa:-do
     
  15. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    and yes science knows about Gigantopithecus blacki a truely massive prehistoric ape found in china...

    check out:
    http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Cryptozoology/Extinct_animals/gigantopithecus_blacki.htm
    http://www.uiowa.edu/~nathist/Site/giganto.html
    http://www.skullsunlimited.com/gigantopithecus_blacki_skull.html

    and Meganthropus also a giant prehistoric ape...
    http://www.evolutionnyc.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/product-id/892385.html

    unfortunatly very little is known of them just some pieces of jawbone and possibaly some skull pieces... but we both dislike building animals from just little bits of bone so I'll move on...

    Its funny how with Eohippus your willing to believe that the dentition and the structure of the legs and hips and the feet could change so drastically to become Hyrax but it could not change just a little to become Equis... especally when we have so many transitory species between them...

    It would take A LOT more evolution to make Eohippus a Hyrax than an Equis...

    wa:-do
     
  16. Mr Spinkles

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    wow, painted wolf you really know your stuff.
     
  17. inca

    inca Active Member

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    The sites already explained WHY giganthosauros is not an ape and we see photographic evidence of bones. What you're saying about twisting snakes is just an interpretating according to your own liking. I have to say even in history your knowledge about the symbols on those times is pathetic! Your argument about pterodactils is really funny. Some people are saying now even the T-REX "babies" had feathers. There are different species and not all of them have to have the same characteristics just because you wanna believe in the illustrations of your choice...which are also interpretation as I said.
    Regarding the pre-historical daman I have said they had changes. All the fossils about eohippus are just interpretations saying horses evolved from them. If you were someone believing in re-encarnation I won't show the bone of a real animal existing in the past or an egg and say "that's the "evidence" YOU WERE LIKE THIS in the past!!" Try to use the same silly argument at the university.
    The bones and the photographic evidence indicates the giant bones were not of apes but human beings.
    The word "dinosaur", Dear Friend, is a modern concept , so if you wanna make a case about the name lizards, reptils, etc, lemme remind you we're talking even originally about the frighting aspect of the creature. The word hypopothamus is an example cos is taken from Greek meaning "horse", yet it doesn't look like a horse yet they had to give that name cos there was nothing like this. The same can be said about the sea-horse.
     
  18. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Wow, Mr. Spinkles! You really don't know the stuff and Painted Wolf either! I said you were gonna jump information rather THAN READING and you did it exactly as I predicted! You didn't read nor understood what I posted and not even the links you post about gigantopithecus, etc. The sites are repeating the same information of how scientists chosed arbitarly largest apes to make the MODEL accoding to their own image. Of course they had to add hair to give the appearance of an ape AS USUAL. You can go to a beauty saloon and probably find the photograph of a modern man with the features of an ape hanging on the wall. Probably you didn't check the sites are filled with expressions like: probably, assumptions, would be wiser to consider the dimensions with caution and so on. They are doing the same thing National Geographic does and BBC, and I already said it. There's no way to know the amount of hair. This is all fairy tale story for naïve people like you. Read and read and read again not only my links but the very ones you're posting. Check the photographs of giant snakes, fishes and other beasts found even in our time. All your efforts to diminush the astronomic amount of information checking possible flaws don't eliminate the facts.
    I have already mentioned many but many arguments of my own before and even quoted people who are scientists and are not creationists, I started talking about mutation but now you wanna make a superficial chit chat changing the thing talking and leading the issue towards me? DO YOU WANNA DISAGREE ABOUT MUTATIONS WITH NOBEL PRIZE WINNER? Who the heck you think you are? I have mentioned several books and references of scientists who are not creatonists. It doesn't mean that Creationists are accurate in some points. There's some truth everywhere, even in some words that you say. Nobody is 100% stupid to make contra-arguments and say everything he says is absolutely wrong. To say that is to be very narrow minded L7 person.
     
  19. inca

    inca Active Member

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    You're the typical reader who doesn't even read what you post and no thinking either. One of the sites says "there was no way to investigate Giganto's diet"... all this is subjective. If you pick the teeth of a gorilla (increidible size) you wouldn't think the beast is vegetarian. It continues the use of uniformitarian dogma that the events of the presence shall be the key to understand the past. In every possible issue about hominids you're gonna read the same CRAP repeated to infinite "the arrival of man or whatever made it difficult the survival of them". Yet baboons, chimps, orangutangos and all apes who were less "evolved" managed tu survive man and even continue to be with us!
    The so-called Replica is ridiculous. As usual as they did with the FIASCO or scientific XOAXES I mentioned by name, they INVENT A WHOLE SKULL based upon very fragmented pieces of bones. The most part of the skull (shown in white) is purely speculative. I draw myself and I can do -exactly like the arttists hired by National Geographic- a completely different skull...yet more "human". Something more?
    Don't worry about Mr. Spinkles, he was taught by Catholic Church and since that church was always light years off course from science and real Bible understanding giving so much attention to Latin than Hebrew (in fact Jewish were cast out from Spain during Catholic kingdom), they have always been speculating in ignorance. America developed much more than South America and Central America because Protestans settled rather than ignorant Spaniards. So, is inevitable that Mr. Spinkles undertook and inherited part of that poorly sophisticated legacy. I don't know how old is he, but let's suppose he's 70. In that case it 's even worst cos the education 5 decades ago was even in Latin. This affects even today. An example is Mel Gibson. I had to write to his official PASSION's site and corrected an expression used in the film that was just an adaptation of the Greek word (ego eimí) to Aramaic (in Hebrew the expression would be "ani hu") and I understood what the film was saying and had to correct them. So, even if Mr. Spinkles is not old, his understanding must follow the same patterns....
     
  20. inca

    inca Active Member

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    In fact your links are just saying an un-detailed information which is the same info you critized in the "Creationist" site. Of course, your site didn't repeat some interesting details or didn't show the photograph of the giant femur of a human being (not an ape) found in Turkey and wouldn't mention the 37 lb copper axe of the Meganthropus.
    www.s8int.com/giants1.html
    www.s8int.com/giants2.html
    No mentioning in your sites about
    HISTORICAL skulls in Peru (some of them I saw it myself in the museums) which are not artificially deformed, or footprints in Patagonia, etc. Please, keep on writing. The more you do it, the more you fail...
     
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