Class Warfare

[Revoltingest]

Florida firm welcomes clients with AK-47

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There is already class warfare, who is currently winning Nate?

Now if it was all out war, you can't take anything from the poor but you could sink my boat and trash my car. You could also get shot, but that is a two way street.

You can deny them health care
You can deny them food
You can deport them
You can relocate them at will
You can be sure that there is little hope for change
You can be sure that their vote is discouraged by requiring ID and redistricting
You can be sure that their kids aren't educated or fed and continue the cycle of poverty
You can see that laws are passed to hinder any hope of starting a business through loan procedures and permits

 

[T-Dawg]

Have you ever been hired by a poor person?
The rich create better jobs. Let'm win.

Hehe, I've been waiting to use this one for a long time now:

"When was the last time a poor man gave you a job?" the Reaganists say.
"When was the last time a rich man did a job for you?" I respond.


The rich don't create jobs; demand (for products) creates jobs, and the poor and middle class fill them. Then those wise enough to hire them get rich (often these people are already rich, but not necessarily - indeed, for a healthy economy, NEW rich have to be created).
The rich are a product of capitalism, not the catalyst. Views differ on whether or not this side product is beneficial or detrimental.


Lowering taxes on the wealthy won't make our unemployment go away. The rich, by definition, already have money. The reason they (and the non-rich) are not investing is because it is not seen as profitable; there is little confidence that the market will recover soon. If we give them more money, they'll do with it what they do with the money they already have (buy foreign luxuries and/or save it).
On the other hand, the poor spend most of the money they have on things like food and shelter. If we increase their spending power (lowering taxes, giving stimulus, raising minimum wage, etc), they will most likely buy more necessities and luxuries - if we can find a way (like tariffs) to ensure that they buy products from US businesses instead of foreign imports, this money we give to them will go directly into our economy - into the hands of businesses, who, realizing that making more stuff would be profitable now that more people are spending more, will make more. This will cause them to hire more people (to make more products), and our real GDP should rise (since more is being produced).


(Of course, this still bears the innate limits of capitalism, namely, that it assumes all players act rationally and that the economy can keep growing, but that's capitalism for you, and I don't think the US is able to leap directly into socialism at this point due to popular support for the market system and the individualist culture.)

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Florida firm welcomes clients with AK-47

haha - I bet it's run by Neo-Nazis.

 

[T-Dawg]

lol ignoreing the blatant disregard for the context and meaning of the verses, I find most problem with the thinking that the Democrats are influenced by Jesus. As if! Democrats are not Christians, or at least are not good Christians. Their support for abortion is a sign of that.

If you don't mind me asking, why are you so obsessed with abortion?
(You've brought abortion up before in discussions where it had no relevance.)

Maybe they just (correctly) feel that it's wrong to put their religious sentiments into law. There are people who hate abortion but wouldn't make it illegal for others, just as there are people who "personally" think homosexuality is wrong spiritually but won't try to force others to conform to their religion's standard, and just as I think that noodles are an abomination, yet I don't insist that other people refrain from eating them.

 

[Mister_T]

lol ignoreing the blatant disregard for the context and meaning of the verses, I find most problem with the thinking that the Democrats are influenced by Jesus. As if! Democrats are not Christians, or at least are not good Christians. Their support for abortion is a sign of that.

If Democrats were as openly affiliated with religion as Republicans are, then you might have a point. The only problem is Democrats aren't flaunting Jesus around as their poster boy for their morality.

The context of those verses also seems pretty cut and dry, but this isn't the Religious Debate section, so I'm just going to end it at that.

 

[YmirGF]

As Warren Buffet pointed out, the class war in America was started by the rich and the rich are winning.

Perhaps Mr. Buffet could be a bit less hypocritical and pay the estimated $1,000,000,000 in back taxes that his company, Berkshire-Hathaway has been fighting the IRS over for about a decade. In that case, it would seem as if the government is expecting too much from Mr. Buffet. That said, there is nothing stopping any American citizen from making a cheque out for more than they have been assessed. The government will be only too happy to keep the clearly marked donation. SO, until you are putting your money where you mouth is, quit slobbering over the rich.

 

[no-body]

So it's only class warfare when the laws favor the poor, right?

 

[T-Dawg]

Perhaps Mr. Buffet could be a bit less hypocritical and pay the estimated $1,000,000,000 in back taxes that his company, Berkshire-Hathaway has been fighting the IRS over for about a decade. In that case, it would seem as if the government is expecting too much from Mr. Buffet. That said, there is nothing stopping any American citizen from making a cheque out for more than they have been assessed. The government will be only too happy to keep the clearly marked donation. SO, until you are putting your money where you mouth is, quite slobbering over the rich.

You say this as if it's unreasonable (the donating to the government thing, I mean). I actually plan on doing this at some point (I meant to do it by the end of the summer but was never able to get a check to write out).

Christmas seems like a good time to do it. I can add the $50 or so that already rightfully belongs to the government to 10% of whatever it is I get for Christmas.
I can't wait until I'm able to get a job so I can pay income taxes .



As for Buffet, shame on him for dodging taxes.

 

[YmirGF]

You say this as if it's unreasonable (the donating to the government thing, I mean). I actually plan on doing this at some point (I meant to do it by the end of the summer but was never able to get a check to write out).

Well, if you are content sending money to a bunch of folks who can't balance a checkbook, all the more power to ya. If there was actually some form of meaningful accountability involved, I might be right behind you.

 

[Tellurian]

Christian clergy are now joining in the "class warfare" on the wealthy.

From Clergy Lobby Super Committee To Increase Taxes On The Wealthy

As a Congressional super committee meets to put together a plan to cut at least $1.2 trillion from the federal deficit in the next decade, a coalition of dozens of religious voices sent a letter to members of the committee on Tuesday, urging them to consider increasing taxes on wealthy Americans.

"You have a moral responsibility to work in a bipartisan manner to restore our nation’s long-term fiscal health in a way that does not worsen the immediate economic struggles of American families. As pastors and people of faith, we pray that you will give special consideration to programs that protect the American people from poverty, hunger and economic insecurity," read the letter.

It continued, "You have all endorsed a 'Taxpayer Protection Pledge' championed by Washington lobbyist Grover Norquist, which prohibits you from supporting revenue increases even when this rigid allegiance to ideology conflicts with fiscal responsibility and economic fairness. We believe this pledge to your political ally conflicts with a balanced, practical approach to deficit reduction. You are now faced with a politically difficult but morally clear choice. Do you consider the pledge you made to a Washington lobbyist more sacred than the pledge you swore on the Bible when you took office?"

 

[Revoltingest]

Hehe, I've been waiting to use this one for a long time now:

"When was the last time a poor man gave you a job?" the Reaganists say.
"When was the last time a rich man did a job for you?" I respond.

Hah! Twas the last time I hired an attorney or a commercial electrician.
They have the biggest boats.
(Btw, I voted against Reagan.....twice.)

The rich don't create jobs; demand (for products) creates jobs, and the poor and middle class fill them.

All mirth aside, job creation is done by all productive denizens of the country. But the rich do more in capital aggregation, innovation, entrepreneurship
& consumption. Note that I'm including those who are on their way to wealth too, the biggest risk takers of all. We need the Steve Jobs, Dean Kamens,
Henry Fords, & other giants & future giants of industry far more than we need the poor, who merely ride on the coattails of others. This isn't to say
they're bad people or any such foolishness, but this is their lot in life. I favor ensuring that they should have opportunity to rise above this station,
& towards this agenda, I support The Institute For Justice, which fights to remove bogus regulatory barriers to starting & operating small businesses.
(Yes, it's a shameless pitch to anyone else who might want to help them.)

 

[bobhikes]

All mirth aside, job creation is done by all productive denizens of the country. But the rich do more in capital aggregation, innovation, entrepreneurship
& consumption. Note that I'm including those who are on their way to wealth too, the biggest risk takers of all. We need the Steve Jobs, Milt Kamens,
Henry Fords, & other giants & future giants of industry far more than we need the poor, who merely ride on the coattails of others. This isn't to say
they're bad people or any such foolishness, but this is their lot in life. I favor ensuring that they should have opportunity to rise above this station,
& towards this agenda, I support The Institute For Justice, which fights to remove bogus regulatory barriers to starting & operating small businesses.
(Yes, it's a shameless pitch to anyone else who might want to help them.)

Rasberries :areyoucra

 

[Revoltingest]

Christian clergy are now joining in the "class warfare" on the wealthy.

From Clergy Lobby Super Committee To Increase Taxes On The Wealthy

Lousy Xians! If they want to pay more, let them tithe or double tithe to the government.
(I'd rather see them spend their effort on opposing our endless wars.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Rasberries :areyoucra

I deserve scorn....confusing Milt with Dean Kamen.
It's fixed now.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Apparently, reports are just coming in that a regiment of men dressed in tennis outfits with sweaters tied around their shoulders are laying seige to some housing projects with mortars and .50 caliber machine guns. The class war can no longer be denied.

 

[Revoltingest]

Apparently, reports are just coming in that a regiment of men dressed in tennis outfits with sweaters tied around their shoulders are laying seige to some housing projects with mortars and .50 caliber machine guns. The class war can no longer be denied.

They'll be routed when they break for tea.

Hey! I'm catching up with you in post count!
(I find it helps to stress quantity over quality.)

 

[strikeviperMKII]

There is a class warfare against the wealthy that will be getting worse with President Obama's new initiative to raise their taxes. Who is responsible for this blatant discrimination and persecution against the wealthy? The originator of this class warfare has been revealed in books that recorded his warnings and his campaign against those of wealth.

Um...raising taxes a couple of percentage points is not class warfare. You want class warfare, look at the Russian Monarchy.

 

[bobhikes]

I deserve scorn....confusing Milt with Dean Kamen.
It's fixed now.

Wish it we that simple.

For years now I was sure it was the pendulum swinging against the workers and that soon it would swing back again. I have given up that hope. I would have been one of the people at Wall street protesting but my company required my services on my day off without pay of course because it was just a phone call.

I give my company 2 years before they lay me off. Once free I will have no choice but to fight. If I can help those that fight I will.

 

[T-Dawg]

Hah! Twas the last time I hired an attorney or a commercial electrician.
They have the biggest boats.
(Btw, I voted against Reagan.....twice.)

Heh, didn't see that one coming. Nice. I didn't think of lawyers or electricians, I suppose they (well, lawyers at least, I don't know how electricians do financially) would qualify as rich by most people's definitions.

All mirth aside, job creation is done by all productive denizens of the country. But the rich do more in capital aggregation, innovation, entrepreneurship
& consumption. Note that I'm including those who are on their way to wealth too, the biggest risk takers of all. We need the Steve Jobs, Dean Kamens,
Henry Fords, & other giants & future giants of industry far more than we need the poor, who merely ride on the coattails of others. This isn't to say
they're bad people or any such foolishness, but this is their lot in life. I favor ensuring that they should have opportunity to rise above this station,
& towards this agenda, I support The Institute For Justice, which fights to remove bogus regulatory barriers to starting & operating small businesses.
(Yes, it's a shameless pitch to anyone else who might want to help them.)

Right, but the rich proportionally do more saving and importing, if I'm not completely and utterly mistaken. If you lower their taxes, they'll spend the money that they didn't spend on taxes on more savings and more imports, until they think that creating jobs would be profitable to them and America starts making decent products again.
Of course, we need the people who are on their way to wealth (assuming we're sticking with capitalism), but the people who are already wealthy and not investing don't need to be given more money, is the thing. The ones that need money are the people who aren't wealthy but want to get somewhere in life, and the people who don't have money and want to do things like eat. We do a halfway-decent job of making sure everyone eats and has a roof over their heads, being a first-world country and all, but we could be doing better.

The thing is, after people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Henry Ford become Microsoft, Apple, and Ford, the person that was once contributing to the economy has mainly become dead weight (economically speaking), because the profit motive tends to get more demanding as the company gets bigger, and they no longer need to be personally involved in their companies to continue to profit off of them.
At what point do we decide that someone is getting paid too much for what they do? Sure, Bill Gates has done a lot more for society than, say, a factory worker, but is his work millions of times more difficult to do than the typical worker's?