Christmas No Longer Recognized As The Birth Of Christ

[SDavis]

So you agree that respect for non-Christians is incompatible with Christianity as you see it, but you aren't trying to persuade anyone else?




I don't believe that there's any prophecy in the Bible that spells out standards for celebration of Christmas or that failing to meet these standards indicates a "falling away from the faith."

You would have a much stronger case that, for instance, Christian stances against same-sex marriage and Christian boycotts of "woke" consumer brands indicate a "falling away"; at least that has a scriptural basis (1 Timothy 4:1-4).

I don't see how you come to that conclusion respect for non-christians is incompatible with Christians but whatever.

Falling away is falling away from acknowledgment acknowledgment acknowledgment of Christ in any form.

Enough said I will not reply to you again bye.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have no idea why you hear it so often I don't, in department stores places of business.

No Christians didn't ban celebration for Christmas because it was making false idols based on pagan holiday celebrations.

Are you trying to tell me that Christmas is a pagan holiday - these days everybody knows the origin of Christmas or they should. It was converted into Christmas from the Roman holiday of the winter solstice, which happens to coincide with the time that Jesus was conceived.
Christ was born in September he was conceived in December in which the Jews back at that point in time considered the day of conception the birth date.

If we believe the Bible, Jesus was both born during the reign of Herod the Great (died 4 BCE) and during Quirinius's governorship of Syria (began in 6 CE). There is no date for Jesus's birth that can be reconciled with the Bible.

The reason Christmas is celebrated at the end of December is because the date leant itself to co-opting pagan winter solstice festivals.

 

[SDavis]

I was in a gift shop yesterday afternoon, shopping for a Christmas gift for my Christian neighbor. She had left a basket of eight, individually wrapped, little tokens of friendship on my doorstep for Hanukkah, so I wanted to do something nice like that for her. We're always leaving stuff on each other's doorstep.

When I entered the shop and said I was looking for a Christmas present, the guy behind the counter wished me a "Merry Christmas." I wished him a Merry Christmas and told him that, actually, I'm Jewish and shopping for a present for my neighbor. He immediately wished me a "Happy Hanukkah" and I thanked him. Then, when I found the gift I wanted, he kindly gift wrapped it for me at no charge.

It probably would have been less awkward for us both if he had just initially wished me "Happy Holidays," but then I wouldn't have had the opportunity to tell him that I'm Jewish and buying a gift for a Christian friend. We had a really nice conversation and he enjoyed the funny story about how my neighbor and I do this thing with leaving stuff on each other's doorstep. He also asked me about Hanukkah traditions.

This all took place in a small shop in a semi-rural town, so no one was harried and in a rush to move along. I guess my point is that maybe people are less likely to be contentious with each other if they have an opportunity to talk with and learn from each other. I also think that this little forum here serves much the same purpose, and I just want to say that I see a lot of good coming from it.

Wal-Mart Merry Christmas Ban

Even though it's in 2005 it is still being practiced in many department stores and businesses.

Bill O'Reilly: War on Christmas won by the good guys, but insurgents remain

You may remember about 10 years ago, “The O’Reilly Factor” began spotlighting companies that refused to say the words "Merry Christmas."

www.foxnews.com

2016 it was still an issue not to say Merry Christmas.

And most of these department stores it is extremely almost impossible to find displays of the nativity scene or anything that has to do with Jesus.
Point I'm trying to make is we are falling away from the purpose of "Christ" - mas

 

[SDavis]

No one is stopping you from celebrating the feast of the nativity. Choose whatever traditions you want. Go to church Christmas day. Whatever works for you.

Never implied anyone was stopping me from celebrating.

I have no idea what the feast of nativity is.

Only when Christmas falls on a Sunday are churches open.

And the post was to bring awareness to the times we're living in to Christians. But only believers in Christ would understand that.
Thanks for your comment!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't see how you come to that conclusion respect for non-christians is incompatible with Christians but whatever.

While "happy holidays" started as a Christian greeting (to acknowledge all the Christian holidays through Advent and going all the way to Epiphany), these days, it's mostly used to acknowledge not only Christmas but the other religious festivals around this time of year (e.g. Hanukkah, Diwali) and secular holidays (e.g. New Year's Eve), in order to be more inclusive to non-Christians and Christians alike.

You objected to this expression of inclusion and respect toward non-Christians.

Falling away is falling away from acknowledgment acknowledgment acknowledgment of Christ in any form.

Enough said I will not reply to you again bye.

Like I said earlier: you do you.

 

[SDavis]

I think everyone should just celebrate christmas however they want and let everyone else do the same. Who cares.

Good - I agree everyone should celebrate Christmas however they want.

It doesn't change the fact that *Christ*mas is/was a celebration of the birth of Christ not Santa Claus or the snowman or the reindeers or gift-givings.

Christians should care simply because they should be aware of the times we're living in. But that's nonsense to you and so be it.

 

[SDavis]

Actually the celebration of Christmas is a later development. Early Christians didn't celebrate it, indeed they ridiculed those that did. Throughout most of Christian history Christmas was a minor holiday if celebrated at all. Even as late as the time of the Puritans there was active opposition to celebrating Christmas.

Celebrate as your own heart and conscience determine and reciprocate by not judging them. Don't let the negativity of others get to you. Remember what it says in your Christian New Testament, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Colossians 2:16

I know the history of the celebration of Christmas.

I haven't judged anyone, you are gravely mistaken.

A post simply to bring awareness to the fact that there is a *falling away* from even the celebration _ a holiday of the *birth of Christ* / which is actually his conception he was born in September - which is changed back into in a sense to the celebration of the Roman winter solstice.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Just say Merry Christmas if you're so moved. If someone is offended by that, they can get a life.

I'm quite content to say "Merry Christmas" to my Christian friends, and not at all put off by being wished the same. It's not very hard, really, to respect the other guy's beliefs.

 

[SDavis]

Could this be because people don't wear badges expressing what religion the belong to or if they belong to a religion at all?

Could it be that people do not want to offend others who walk a different path than Christianity?

It all boils down to non-believers or people of different religions not wanting to hear Merry Christmas because it signifies the birth of Christ. They fought against it and companies fearing losing their business told their employees to cease saying it. And took it further by taking displays of almost everything that had to do with Christ basically out of the stores. Bill O'Reilly: War on Christmas won by the good guys, but insurgents remain

Wal-Mart Merry Christmas Ban

Christian group calls for boycott of Wal-Mart after they instructed employees to say 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas.

www.snopes.com

 

[SDavis]

Well truth be told , Christians invaded and hijacked already established pagan festivals in order to put Christ into it.

Christmas, at least the December 25th holiday, wasn't and isn't a Christian holiday in the first place. It belongs to the Pagans celebration of the harvest and bounty for the year.

The real Christian celebration lays with Epiphany on January 6.

I've always believed and read that it was the celebration of the Roman winter solstice that Christmas derived from.

Matters not it's origin _ Christmas represented represented the birth of Christ, that's why his title this the first six letters.

According to Jewish tradition a child's date of birth this is day of conception Christ was conceived in December and he was born in September.

I've never heard of January the 6th -epiphany.

 

[Soandso]

I'm reminded years ago when an unpleasant MAGA lady I used to work with would say "Thanks to Trump, we can finally say Merry Christmas again!"

 

[SalixIncendium]

It all boils down to non-believers or people of different religions not wanting to hear Merry Christmas because it signifies the birth of Christ. They fought against it and companies fearing losing their business told their employees to cease saying it. And took it further by taking displays of almost everything that had to do with Christ basically out of the stores. Bill O'Reilly: War on Christmas won by the good guys, but insurgents remain

Wal-Mart Merry Christmas Ban

Christian group calls for boycott of Wal-Mart after they instructed employees to say 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas.

www.snopes.com

Merry Christmas!

 

[SDavis]

Thank Sure, there are cultural aspects and folk traditions of the winter celebration that pre-date Christianity, and have existed alongside Christianity, but that doesn't mean that Christians can't celebrate the holiday in a manner that they think is appropriate. They just shouldn't be able to force others to do the same.

"Happy Holidays" exists because several religious traditions have celebrations during the season; it's a bit bigoted to expect that all greetings exclude those and cater to your specific religion.

Thank you for your reply.

I am aware of the origins of Christmas and its connection to the Roman holiday celebrations of the winter solstice.

My post is just to Christians hoping that they are aware that there is a falling away occurring right before their eyes as prophesied in the Bible.

And no no one should be forced to celebrate something they choose not to -whether they are unbelievers or are of a different religion.

But saying Merry Christmas isn't forcing anyone it's just something they don't want to hear because of its connection to Christ. Nor is taking out any displays or no longer selling items depicting the nativity forcing anyone.

 

[Left Coast]

Where do I live - there are a few people that still say Merry Christmas. This was in 2005

Wal-Mart Merry Christmas Ban

Christian group calls for boycott of Wal-Mart after they instructed employees to say 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas.

www.snopes.com

2016

Bill O'Reilly: War on Christmas won by the good guys, but insurgents remain

You may remember about 10 years ago, “The O’Reilly Factor” began spotlighting companies that refused to say the words "Merry Christmas."

www.foxnews.com

Stores are lined up with Christmas decor oh you see the trees decorated with lights, you see the reindeer displays, the Santa displays, the elves, even Mrs Santa. You see the fake snow, and snowman displays. Christmas isn't about any of that. Open till the 1980s / 90's there were a lot of nativity scenes and things that had to do with the birth of Christ which is what Christmas is about.

Scripture says there will come a falling away first...

Oh geez S, you're still letting Bill O'Reilly guide your understanding of the world? You're citing a news story from 2005. It's almost 2024. Step outside and get some fresh air.

Meanwhile, Christmas is not in danger. Some people celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday, some don't. It'll be okay.

Worry more about the stress retail workers making minimum wage are under than what greeting they offer you. That's the true Christmas spirit, in my view.

 

[SDavis]

December 25 is a pagan holiday that Christians abducted and used for their own aims. Jesus isn't thought to have been born on this date, assuming he existed.

And Christmas is considered a broad holiday that is crucial to our economy. What do you think should be the ideal in a diverse nation?

Christmas was a converted Roman Holiday of their celebration of the winter solstice - well known

Jewish tradition in those days _ a child was considered one year at the date of his birth - his actual birth date would have been the day of his conception. Jesus was conceived in December, he was born in September it is believed - well known.

Rome wrote about him,they called him Christus / Christos - derived from the name the Greeks gave him.
Tacitus who was a senator, lawyer, and historian, who died in 129 AD - wrote about Christ he even wrote about pilot and the horrific death, he wrote about the Jews and who he thought they were and their plight from Egypt, he even wrote about who he thought they were whether they were Ethiopians or another nationality. Tacitus never saw him but he had to deal with the Jews whom he did not like.

What do I think the ideal should be in this diverse Nation you ask.
Constitution says freedom of speech and freedom of religion. And existed with the beliefs in Christ since it's founding up until the 1970s/80's.

Me, *they can do, change, what they want to _ will not change my beliefs.

My post is just to help make Christians aware of a falling away that is taking place before their eyes as prophesied in the Bible. Bring awareness to some who may not be aware.

 

[Left Coast]

@SDavis would have us believe that respect and courtesy for non-Christians is incompatible with Christianity. Quite the self-condemnation when you think about it.

I wondered where you were! Haven't seen you in a while. Hope you're well.

 

[SDavis]

I would say that Christians have dropped the ball.
I mean, if even the Christians probably don't know why Christmas was initially celebrated....

Why was it initially celebrated?

Are you referring to the celebrations that the Romans did? Their celebration of the winter solstice? Which all begin to change once Constantine became a Christian.

I can't say how many Christians know this - I can only say that here's one that does.

 

[SDavis]

So then all does not happen according to gods plan?

According to God's plan? God didn't plan it - it's according to the actions of man? Because God already knows the events -he gave certain men the prophecies to write, warning of when time was close to being no more and all will face judgment.

God's plan is that all be saved and believe in him.

But I'm quite sure that doesn't mean anything to you, just a bunch of hogwash.

 

[SDavis]

I wondered where you were! Haven't seen you in a while. Hope you're well.

Thank you. Trying not to be on the internet as much. Hope all is well with you too.

 

[Soandso]

Thank you. Trying not to be on the internet as much. Hope all is well with you too.

I think he was talking about 9-10ths_penguin