Christianity - Being Saved and the Unpardonable Sin

[jonny]

This debate is mainly for Christians, but those who can answer from a Christian perpective are also free to participate.

We learn from the bible that there is only one unpardonable sin - blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. How one defines blasphemy will have an impact on what this means. I believe that one cannot commit blasphemy unless one has knowledge/testimony of the Savior.

That being said, many people believe that someone who does not accept Christ as his or her Savior will be punished to an eternity in Hell (I don't believe in a literal, eternal hell, so I wouldn't put myself in that category). This includes those who have no knowledge of Christ or those who have a perverted belief in Christ.

The problem I have with this is that if there is only one unpardonable sin, and that sin requires a testimony of Christ, how can someone who doesn't believe in Christ or holds perverted beliefs in Christ be damned to Hell for eternity without the mercy of Christ kicking in and saving them first?

Is not accepting Christ as your Savior a sin? If it isn't a sin, why do some believe that the unbeliever will be punished to hell for eternity for something that is not a sin? If it is a sin, does eternal damnation satisfy the balance of justice and mercy that Christ enabled through his atonement?

My thoughts are kind of jumbled right now, so hopefully someone can sort this all out and make an intelligent response.

 

[Bishka]

No, that's understandable, and I think you are right. Some people never get the chance to hear of Christ or don't understand how important He is, so is it fair that they go to Hell? No. Good one.

 

[Solon]

Hi Jonny,

your right, couldn't make much sense of what your saying. However, I have knowledge of Christ, I choose to disbelieve what I read. That's free will, which is what Christians say God gave us, so in that respect, it would be rather hypocritical to think that in exercising our free will, we are on the road to a hell that is not of our persuasion.

Solon

 

[jonny]

your right, couldn't make much sense of what your saying.

Perhaps people could start out by defining what they believe an unpardonable sin is and what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is.

 

[Solon]

Well yes, that would clarify some of the issues raised.

S

 

[Mike182]

This debate is mainly for Christians, but those who can answer from a Christian perpective are also free to participate.

We learn from the bible that there is only one unpardonable sin - blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. How one defines blasphemy will have an impact on what this means. I believe that one cannot commit blasphemy unless one has knowledge/testimony of the Savior.

That being said, many people believe that someone who does not accept Christ as his or her Savior will be punished to an eternity in Hell (I don't believe in a literal, eternal hell, so I wouldn't put myself in that category). This includes those who have no knowledge of Christ or those who have a perverted belief in Christ.

The problem I have with this is that if there is only one unpardonable sin, and that sin requires a testimony of Christ, how can someone who doesn't believe in Christ or holds perverted beliefs in Christ be damned to Hell for eternity without the mercy of Christ kicking in and saving them first?

Is not accepting Christ as your Savior a sin? If it isn't a sin, why do some believe that the unbeliever will be punished to hell for eternity for something that is not a sin? If it is a sin, does eternal damnation satisfy the balance of justice and mercy that Christ enabled through his atonement?

My thoughts are kind of jumbled right now, so hopefully someone can sort this all out and make an intelligent response.

i do not believe there is any sin which is outside of god's power to forgive

blasphemy - i have not yet decided what my view on this is :help:

 

[Aqualung]

i do not believe there is any sin which is outside of god's power to forgive

blasphemy - i have not yet decided what my view on this is :help:

Really? The Bible specifically states that if you commit this sin there is no forgiveness...

It may not be outside of his power to forgive it, but regardless of his powers, he won't. (thought that still begs the questions, What is denying the holy ghost? )

 

[jonny]

Blasphemy, or sinning against the Holy Ghost, in my opinion requires someone to have a testimony of the divinity of Christ through the Spirit, and then the deny the testimony that they have and actually work against Christ.

An Unpardonable Sin would be a sin, which is an act against God's will, that will not be forgiven. I guess the question is whether or not we will be forgiven of all other sins eventually.

 

[pdoel]

I for one, don't believe there are any unpardonable sins. Regardless of what the Bible may say. Many seem to forget that the Bible was written by man. Not God.

I also don't believe in Hell. I don't believe that any of us will burn for all eternity.

I remember being taught that if you weren't baptized, you would go to Hell. If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you would go to Hell. When I was young, I asked my minister once, what about babies who die before they are baptized. I don't remember all of what he said, but it was along the lines of there being a grace period. Or exceptions.

I've put a lot of thought into that, and in growing in my faith, I've come to the conclusion that we all serve a purpose here on Earth. None of us know what that purpose is, but God does. How can he condemn us to Hell for following the purpose that he chose for us?

If someone is burn in the Middle East, never knows Jesus, but lives the best Muslin life they can. Why should they go to Hell? Wouldn't it be more God's fault for not bringing Jesus into their life? Same with someone who is raised Jewish? If you are always taught that Christ is not the Savior, but you live a good Jewish lifestyle, why should you go to Hell?

If someone is killed in a car accident, gets cancer, or even murdered, you always hear, "While I don't understand why this happened, I know God has a plan, and "so and so" is with God now, he called them home." With that in mind, if God does have a plan, how can even a murderer go to Hell for simply carrying out God's plan?

That's where I struggle. So, in time, my faith has told me that we will all be saved. God loves us all. There is no Hell. Noone will be condemned for all eternity. We're here to help each other, teach each other, even to question each other and make each other really think. I think that's part of our purpose. And I see no reason why God couldn't forgive us for doing what he has asked us to do.

 

[Aqualung]

Blasphemy, or sinning against the Holy Ghost, in my opinion requires someone to have a testimony of the divinity of Christ through the Spirit, and then the deny the testimony that they have and actually work against Christ.

An Unpardonable Sin would be a sin, which is an act against God's will, that will not be forgiven. I guess the question is whether or not we will be forgiven of all other sins eventually.

Yes, that's what I think. It's knowing Christ, and knowing what he requires of you, and then choosing to do the opposite, knowingly, to bring him down.

 

[SoyLeche]

Here's what Joseph Smith had to say on the subject:

"No man can commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body, nor in this life, until he receives the Holy Ghost" (TPJS, p. 357). To commit the unpardonable sin, a person "must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him…. he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened to him, and to deny the Plan of Salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it" (TPJS, p. 358; cf. Heb. 10:26-29).

 

[sdotbrown]

I think that if you never get the chance to know God during your life on earth you will recieve a chance after you die. I have heard this theory from a number of people, and it makes sense to me. If you do have the chance and ability to know God, and accept Jesus, and you decide not to, I hope that you recieve a second chance after you die, but I have mixed feelings on that.

 

[SoyLeche]

I think that if you never get the chance to know God during your life on earth you will recieve a chance after you die. I have heard this theory from a number of people, and it makes sense to me. If you do have the chance and ability to know God, and accept Jesus, and you decide not to, I hope that you recieve a second chance after you die, but I have mixed feelings on that.

Have a talk with some of the LDS people on the board. I think you'd find it interesting.

 

[jonny]

Is not accepting Christ as your Savior a sin? If it isn't a sin, why do some believe that the unbeliever will be punished to hell for eternity for something that is not a sin? If it is a sin, does eternal damnation satisfy the balance of justice and mercy that Christ enabled through his atonement?

Anyone want to try and tackle these questions? I'd especially be interested in hearing from those who believe in eternal damnation.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Sin is Sin whoever comits it.
I do not think there are any sins of Belief.

God will forgive all sins that are truly repented.
I am sure God will know who truly repents,
it will make no difference if they profess Christianity or not.
He will Judge them, not their beliefs.

Terry______________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[Nehustan]

I think most people who consider themself 'Christians' may not have knowledge of the descending spirit, the dove if you will, RUCh ELHM, Shin. Truly the spirit proceeds from the Eloah, and to blaspheme the spirit is to blaspheme the Eloah. I hope that the spirit will descend on the sons of Adam, pentecost if you like, raising them as pentagrammaton, as Jeheshuah. Like has been pointed out without knowledge one is ignorant, only those with knowledge can truly blaspheme.

 

[jonny]

I think most people who consider themself 'Christians' may not have knowledge of the descending spirit, the dove if you will, RUCh ELHM, Shin. Truly the spirit proceeds from the Eloah, and to blaspheme the spirit is to blaspheme the Eloah. I hope that the spirit will descend on the sons of Adam, pentecost if you like, raising them as pentagrammaton, as Jeheshuah. Like has been pointed out without knowledge one is ignorant, only those with knowledge can truly blaspheme.

No offense, but could you try tying this into the discussion we are having? I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Aqualung]

I think most people who consider themself 'Christians' may not have knowledge of the descending spirit, the dove if you will, RUCh ELHM, Shin. Truly the spirit proceeds from the Eloah, and to blaspheme the spirit is to blaspheme the Eloah. I hope that the spirit will descend on the sons of Adam, pentecost if you like, raising them as pentagrammaton, as Jeheshuah. Like has been pointed out without knowledge one is ignorant, only those with knowledge can truly blaspheme.

I think that's pretty much what he's saying. That in order to blaspheme against the holy spirit, you must have knowledge of it, and what you're doing.

 

[Nehustan]

Sure I'll try and tye it in. Eloah/ELH in hebrew is The God. Ruach Elohim/RVCh ELM, is 'The Spirit of God' which is sometimes said to be encapsualted by the single hebrew letter Shin,

ש​

which can semiotically be see as a descending dove, the symbol of the Holy Spirit. The name IHVH/Jahweh, with the addition of Shin, becomes IHShVH/Jeheshuah, which when phonetically Hellenised and written in Latin letters becomes Jesus, but like the axiom goes 'Its all greek to me'. Thus if we consider Eloah/ELH, The God, and the spirit that proceeds from The God, RVCH ELHM/Ruach Elohim, to blaspheme it (the spirit), is to blaspheme Eloha/ELH (The God).I thought I was actually saying exactly what you were :sarcastic

 

[jonny]

Sure I'll try and tye it in. Eloah/ELH in hebrew is The God. Ruach Elohim/RVCh ELM, is 'The Spirit of God' which is sometimes said to be encapsualted by the single hebrew letter Shin,

ש​

which can semiotically be see as a descending dove, the symbol of the Holy Spirit. The name IHVH/Jahweh, with the addition of Shin, becomes IHShVH/Jeheshuah, which when phonetically Hellenised and written in Latin letters becomes Jesus, but like the axiom goes 'Its all greek to me'. Thus if we consider Eloah/ELH, The God, and the spirit that proceeds from The God, RVCH ELHM/Ruach Elohim, to blaspheme it (the spirit), is to blaspheme Eloha/ELH (The God).I thought I was actually saying exactly what you were :sarcastic

All the hebrew threw me off. I can be a little slow sometimes. I get it now.