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Christianity - Being Saved and the Unpardonable Sin

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by jonny, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Thank you for this, Joe... I'll try to remember to come back later to frubalize you :cool:

    "You have given out too much Karma in the last 24 hours, try again later."
     
  2. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    :confused:
     
  3. Searcher of Light

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    sorry, victor. I just agreed with your view on blasphemy.
     
  4. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Ah ok. Your choice of words confused me.
     
  5. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    Isn't the Holy Spirit an angel? A messenger sent by Yahshua? Or YAH Himself? I say Yahshua first only because YAH gave him control of all the earth and I was only saying that with Our Fathers permission that He does as He does. Oh and if Yahshua can only do things through or by Our Father YAH and if the Spirit is a angel/messenger then here we have 3 separate beings that would most assuredly be of one purpose. Wouldn't you think?
     
  6. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Did you post this in the right thread? :confused:
     
  7. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    Why yes............ yes I did. Thank you for asking. Do you have an answer? I was trying to lay a foundation here that of about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I guess my combining the thoughts of Trinity is where I might have thrown you. Being that if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit then by the trinity wouldn't you as well be blaspheming all three? If you where to blaspheme any of them wouldn't you be doing so to all three?

    I also was wondering on the other questions that I asked?
     
  8. angellous_evangellous

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    Jonny,

    I interpret the unpardonable sin as saying that the Holy Spirit is evil. Cursing God's holiness is blasphemy. It's not a false teaching or an intellectual misunderstanding of God, but an outright rebellion and slandar of God's work and character. (edit) God will not pardon the slandar of his holy work. IMO there are two ways to deal with this- (1) that this blasphemy must be so serious that a person dies without repentence and they go to hell (2) that God will punish people for this sin even if they go to heaven. I adopt #2.

    Some people think that hell is eternal punishment (in duration - burning for all eternity). This belief began with St. Augustine in the forth century and depends upon Plato's doctrine of the immortality of the soul. Many theologians, both ancient and modern, have interpreted the Bible differently, teaching that the punishment of hell is eternal in consequence. That is, those who are judged will be annihilated or destoyed by God for their sins.

    Is it a sin to reject Jesus as Savior? Only God can determine that. I have been thinking about that as well, asking myself where the love of God ends. On one hand, I understand how God can be a bit upset that people reject his sacrifice. On the other hand, God gave the sacrifice out of his great love for humanity, so even if people reject Christ why can't they receive his atonement even if they don't think that they need it. After all, who would reject Christ if they had a full knowledge of what would happen to them if they did not receive him (assuming that any type of hell exists and belief in Christ would save).
     
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  9. angellous_evangellous

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    http://www.intouch.org/myintouch/exploring/bible_says/single_questions/unpardonable_129541.html
     
  10. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Now that I understand where you're going the post makes more sense. :D

    I don't believe in the trinity. I believe that God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are seperate beings. Most people here already know that, but we haven't had the discussion yet so you wouldn't know.

    That being said, rejection of one is probably rejection of them all in a way. It's an interesting point. Thanks for bringing it up.
     
  11. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    I also do not believe in the trinity. I believe that YAH is YAH and YAHshua is YAHshua and that the Holy Spirit is a malak (messenger) that is sent to us to guide and teach us the True Way.

    In any case I just thought it interesting is all and thought I might ask.
     
  12. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Do you believe that Father God, Jesus Son and the Holy Ghost are all God?
    If so, since you also say they are all three seperate "beings" rather than all three are one and the same God, that there are three seperate Gods?

    Just trying to understand what your church is teaching...
     
  13. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we believe that they are all God, but we don't believe they are of the same substance. We believe that they are one in purpose though.
     
  14. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    So to clarify, since it seems I'm kinda dense and do not want to assume I am understanding something in a way that is not really what you believe... are you saying the Father God, Jesus Son and Holy Ghost are three seperateGods (though all with the same purpose)?
     
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  15. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    First, I do not go to church. No need to apologize since you didn't no that we do not use names of things that have pagan backgrounds if we find them out. We believe exactly what the Scripture tells us with the guidance of that set-apart messenger. It says that YAH is one. YAHshua said that YAH is in Him and that He was in YAH speaking of one mind and purpose. I believe that what some call the holy spirit is a Malak/messenger that reveals to us what he has seen and heard from the one that sent him. Now YAHshua could have sent him but, as YAHshua has already stated that, He only does the will of His Father. Without YAH's permission or Truth I don't believe anything can be done. Does the Scriptures state YAH the Father, YAH the Son and YAH the Holy Spirit? I don't think so and I further believe that it is just some mumbo jumbo that man has dreamed up with the (albeit possible unknowing) help from satan to further confuse the masses. Thanks about it this way............. Does it really matter? I mean does it really matter whether there is or isn't a trinity? Does having the answer to something like that, that cannot be found anywhere in the Scripture have any thing to do with you being saved or not? Why do we waste our time looking into such trivial matters and not spending more time doing what YAH commanded us to do? Who knows.
     
  16. Searcher of Light

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    Yes, I do believe thus.

    Also, I believe there are special circumstances where God will waive that requirement such as with the mentally ill or those people who have never had the chance to hear His Word.
     
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  17. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    The post of mine that you quoted was a direct question to jonny.... but thanks for the answer from your perspective as well ;)
     
  18. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    LOL ......... Then I owe you an apology. LOL ......... Sometimes these threads all run together. LOL ;)
     
  19. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    No you don't.... Frubals are good though :D
     
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  20. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Those "special circumstances" are going to have to be applied to a whole lot of people. Furthermore, I'm not aware of anywhere in the Bible where situations such as the one you describe are addressed. So how do you get around the dilemma...

    1. One must believe in Jesus Christ to be saved.
    2. Billions have died without so much as hearing His name.
    3. God is both merciful and just.
     
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