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christianity and miracles

syo

Well-Known Member
miracles play a huge part in orthodox christianity. in fact, miracles are so important, that they are the adjusting factor to accept or deny god. people either believe in miracles so they become christians or they don't believe in miracles and they reject christianity. are miracles real? do we need miracles in our lives?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Well in this age of arrogant scientism being pushed by some, yes I think most people need signs. If there were no miracles or paranormal events I myself would think atheistic materialism is the best bet.
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
A great answer to that question, for me, was in a science fiction story in the book "Man-Kzin Wars XIV" in the story "A Man Named Saul" which had a clear Christian message. The text could not be copy/pasted but I did an image capture:

Capture.PNG
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Well in this age of arrogant scientism being pushed by some, yes I think most people need signs. If there were no miracles or paranormal events I myself would think atheistic materialism is the best bet.

Life itself is all the miracle you need or should need. If you really believe that a string of RNA/DNA just threw itself together by happenstance then you already believe in the biggest miracle of them all.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Life itself is all the miracle you need or should need. If you really believe that a string of RNA/DNA just threw itself together by happenstance then you already believe in the biggest miracle of them all.
Well, you make good points. But the arrogance of scientism makes us doubt.
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
I just looked up "miracle" to see what we actually mean. The third definition on Mirriam-Webster was interesting:
Christian Science :a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law
 
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PureX

Veteran Member
miracles play a huge part in orthodox christianity. in fact, miracles are so important, that they are the adjusting factor to accept or deny god. people either believe in miracles so they become christians or they don't believe in miracles and they reject christianity. are miracles real? do we need miracles in our lives?
People define the miraculous in a lot of different ways. Some of those definitions most of us would accept, and some of them most of us wouldn't. There's a lot of relative interpretation involved in such a decision.
 
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DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
I just looked up "miracle" to see what we actually mean. The third definition on Mirriam-Webster was interesting:
Christian Science :a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law

So which miracle do you believe in? Did God create life or did it miraculously happen by chance with beyond an astronomical chance?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
miracles play a huge part in orthodox christianity. in fact, miracles are so important, that they are the adjusting factor to accept or deny god. people either believe in miracles so they become christians or they don't believe in miracles and they reject christianity. are miracles real? do we need miracles in our lives?
Miracles are important as signs that we are truly dealing with things beyond our senses. This is particularly important today in a time where an arrogant form of scientific materialism raises its head. Miracles get our attention to start considering the mystery of this universe.

Without miracles/paranormal I would probably be an agnostic with a disposition towards atheism.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Personally, I don't believe in miracles, but I will not go so far as to claim that there can't be any. I take a much more naturalistic approach.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
people either believe in miracles so they become christians or they don't believe in miracles and they reject christianity.
Not in my experience. Generally, it works the other way around: to accept a "Christian" miracle as real, you have to be a Christian first.

People usually need a lot of priming before they'll see miracle claims as compelling.
 
I find it sad to see that many tries to dismiss miracles.
Young man shot twice in the chest with explosive bullets and survived. The scientific explanation would be that he got a strong heart.
God wants you to experience miracles, and not dismiss them even if they are explained with common sense. God could actually do the same thing for you if you were shot in the chest.

As always we need to be critic towards the source. It's not lazyness. and when we examine the source it was an assassination attempt, similar to what was shown on the television with the taliban regime and assassination attempt of the US president. US president has experience the same thing many times and survived. So the idea is either confirmed, or dismissed. It depends on what side you take. I go for miracle.
 
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Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
miracles play a huge part in orthodox christianity. in fact, miracles are so important, that they are the adjusting factor to accept or deny god. people either believe in miracles so they become christians or they don't believe in miracles and they reject christianity. are miracles real? do we need miracles in our lives?

I don't think miracles are the defining factor in people joining a religion. People join religion because their lives aren't working. Because they want to find answers. Not because "Oh, I have more miracles in my religion than you."

What Do the World’s Religions Say About Miracles?

Miracles are a way of addressing the transcendent in action, but also explaining the faith. But miracles alone are a magic trick. Far more important are the miracles of a life properly lived.

If I say, "I've got all the answers," yet I go around stealing from people and killing in the name of my faith, and I lie to everyone about my religion, my life is a mess and I have issues. I should address those before selling my religion as some miracle cure.

I am currently a Christian, but I'm having serious misgivings for its "love your neighbor at all costs" mentality.

One should try to reach out and help all people near to you. If they in turn react with theft, murder, or exploiting your kindness, you should be able to set boundaries and defend yourself. Ideally, this would not result in you badly hurting or killing them. But Christianity has managed to render itself impotent by declaring its followers love terrorists, thugs, or other riffraff.
If the world demands that we submit to terror, we do have a right to demand instead that it transform. That mafia, terrorists, and rapists actually work to improve themselves.
Yes, you should love sinners. Sinners are the pathetic and flawed. Yes, you should even try to love those who hurt you. Yes, you should see grace of all human beings who you encounter, and not lose trust. But those who see your willingness to forgive their faults as a weakness, however, can go **** themselves. Even if I don't judge them, may God see what they have done in response to letting the matter drop.

You may ask, "What does this have to do with miracles?" It has to do with miracles not being enough. With the true test of religion being about how one's life is lived. How well the model works. I remember trying earnestly to treat other people the way I wanted to be treated, because I wanted to be treated well. I was selfish, but that's what I wanted. Instead I got used and abused. It wasn't until I learned about boundaries, that one has to try to treat oneself well, that my life became manageable. It's a litmus test. Miracles don't make a religion, having it work for you does.
 
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tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
people either believe in miracles so they become christians or they don't believe in miracles and they reject christianity.
Good point. You can't be a Christian without believing not only in the possibility of miracles, but in the specific miracles described in the Bible.
 
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tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
are miracles real? do we need miracles in our lives?
I don't know of any real miracles. Considering what psychology has to teach about the human mind and what magicians can fool people into believing, I would be surprised if there are any certified miracles.
 
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Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Good point. You can't be a Christian without believing not only in the possibility of miracles, but in the specific miracles described in the Bible.

What?!? Ummm, pretty sure that is not true.

The fact that one does not believe miracles happened as miracles does not lessen their value.

The Science of the 10 Plagues

Ten plagues explained by science. Does that lessen their value as a miracle? Not at all. It shows a God who is firmly concerned in the material world, our needs and desires, and who uses our oppressors' power against them.

The Chemistry and Psychology of Turning Water Into Wine - Facts So Romantic - Nautilus

Water into wine? It's about wine theory, actually. The dregs probably had enough grape residue to make grape water, but the urn itself had terroir. It taste like wine because it was in wine bottles. The miracle represents a God who knows where we come from and makes us better.

Feeding of 5000? They think he might have had help (that many of the crowd had food, just basically started giving and everyone else did too). But that's actually the point. When we want to help each other (not forced, communism always ends poorly), everyone's life becomes better.

Do you have to believe in miracles, as a supernatural event? No, and you shouldn't. The key about miracles is understanding what they are trying to say to us.
 
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