Children less likely than adults to get COVID 19

[Windwalker]

I suppose you could quibble over the degree to which we did that.

Considering the insane politicization of the wearing of masks, and the ensuing thumbing of our noses at any idea of restrictions on behaviors, it's kind of hard to quibble about it. We've done rather poorly, and the evidence is in the stats.

But the issue remains about the trade-off between economic reduction
& infection spreading.

The more we resist taking the measures necessary to get it under control, like in other countries that did those measures, the greater the economic impacts will be. Take your choice. Bad, Worse, Terrible, or Nightmare. Each price tag is paid for by our stupidity in denying reality and doing what needs to be done.

Instead of getting tough on restricting commerce,
get tough on safe behavior.

Those "getting tough on safe behavior" measures, will have restrictions placed on commerce. Bars. Restaurants. Gyms. To be tough on safe behavior, we have to in fact be safe. Opening bars was tried, and the result was a firestorm of infections.

What suggestions would you have? Bars with plexiglass screens between bar stools? Water down the booze so people don't get tipsy and forget there's a deadly, highly contagious pandemic right now, as they lean in close to talk to their bestest friends ever? Turn off the music so people don't talk loudly and spew their viruses in magic mushroom clouds for the other inebriated party goers?

Trump is not the cause of our problems.
We have individual states, each with its own policies.

Don't kid yourself. The leader of this country sets an example to all its citizens, undermining all credible voices. As leader of the federal government, he most certainly could have done a far better job in giving states what they need, rather than dolling out favors to those governors who suck Trump's dictatorial thumb. We are where we are, instead of a far better place at this point, solely because of Trump's absolute lack of leadership, or basic human compassion.

I'll share this because I just saw this, and it fits perfectly with how Trump and Friend's are not in touch with reality, and are leading us to anywhere but a successful reopening by ignoring all the experts:

 

[columbus]

The trouble is that the article merely says children appear less "susceptible".

I don't even understand what "less" susceptible means.
If, under the same circumstances, a 20y/o is 80% likely to acquire and spread the infection and a 5 y/o is 75% likely then it's true. A child is less likely to do so.
But it's not a particularly important distinction, in the large scheme of things.
Tom

 

[sun rise]

Nancy Pelosi...

HR6666 aka The Hero's Act.

What are you talking about? HR6666 is COVID-19 Testing, Reaching, And Contacting Everyone (TRACE) Act

To authorize the Secretary of Health and Human Services to award grants to eligible entities to conduct diagnostic testing for COVID–19, and related activities such as contact tracing, through mobile health units and, as necessary, at individuals’ residences, and for other purposes.

 

[sun rise]

The article states that children transmit the virus less than adults. Adults are far more likely to get the virus from another adult than from their children.

Prove it or I dismiss it as a meaningless internet personal opinion.

 

[sun rise]

Well it is only an NBC news article. Actually that fact that the risk to children is less seems to be news to some people.

Speaking as a teacher myself I want as much information as I can get, since schools will reopen whether sooner or later. Knowing children are less prone to getting the virus is of some comfort.

Wrong. The data from my county shows school age children get it quite often:

https://www.coronavirus.cchealth.org/dashboard

 

[sun rise]

This "opening too soon" really grinds me gears!

Tough. When the shutdown happened we had no idea what was going on but only knew people were getting sick, hospitals and ICUs were getting stressed and people were dying. We had no idea how the virus was spreading either.

20-20 hindsight does not "cut the mustard" as they say.

Trump is not the cause of our problems.

He's not the sole cause but his lying has caused problems by making the pandemic a political issue turning his followers off of sane and sensible measures. We all pay for that.

 

[sun rise]

We also know this: Israeli Data Show School Openings Were a Disaster That Wiped Out Lockdown Gains

Of 1,400 Israelis diagnosed with COVID-19 last month, 657 (47 percent) were infected in schools. Now 2,026 students, teachers, and staff have it, and 28,147 are quarantined.
...
On June 3, two weeks after schools opened, more than 244 students and staff were found to test positive for COVID-19.

According to the education ministry, 2,026 students, teachers, and staff have contracted COVID-19, and 28,147 are in quarantine due to possible contagion.

Just in the first two weeks of July, 393 kindergartens and schools open for summer programs have been shuttered due to cases of COVID-19

I'm sure that the right will ignore those inconvenient facts

 

[Polymath257]

This "opening too soon" really grinds me gears!
What does "opening" mean?
We tried severely shutting down the economy, but that was a
cure worse than the disease. Michiganistan has finally found
a better balance (sanity struck the governor). Instead of banning
buying paint'n such, we now must wear masks in close quarters.
It's about time that we make it about safe behavior instead of
hiding at home.
Yeah, perhaps more will die. But a dead economy will also kill.

We tried shutting things down, but not nearly for long enough to do what needed to be done. By opening up, we eliminated any advantage that shutdown provided. We wasted that effort.

People need to social distance. That means bars, beaches, restaurants, etc, need to be closed unless they can maintain that distance. People have shown they are unwilling to do the basic steps required, which is why the economy is going to have to close down AGAIN.

Essentially, we have decided that having 200,000 die is something we can deal with so people can go out to eat. That, to me, is sick.

 

[Polymath257]

Trump is not the cause of our problems.
We have individual states, each with its own policies.

Trump isn't the cause.

But through his neglect and promotion of misinformation, he has made a bad situation immeasurably worse. By not coordinating a federal response, he made it so that the states have to bid against each other for medical supplies. By not invoking emergency powers, he has guaranteed shortages of supplies that are unnecessary. By making it into a political issue he made it so that the medical professionals had a harder time getting the message out. By promoting opening up too soon, he strong-armed states into taking steps that guaranteed many unnecessary deaths will occur.

So, no, Trump didn't cause the corona virus. But it seems he has done whatever is necessary to make the effects of this virus as bad as possible.

 

[Revoltingest]

Who do you suppose convinced the Darwin Award Winner you discussed in another thread that "Covid19 is a hoax"?

Don't know.
Didn't ask him.
Do you think Trump has said it's a hoax?

You seriously think that our President isn't the main problem?
Tom

We're a republic with 50 states, each acting independently with very
different populations & policies. Trump's downplaying the danger is
a problem, but he doesn't control the governors. There are limits to
federal power, ya know.

 

[Revoltingest]

Unless, of course, President Trump threatens to cut off federal education funding if states don't do what his campaign advisors want the states to do.
Tom

Despite there being limited federal power, there is still some power.
You should be thankful that Trump's power is so limited....or do you
wish he had even more?

 

[Polymath257]

Don't know.
Didn't ask him.
Do you think Trump has said it's a hoax?

Yes, he said exactly that multiple times at the beginning. Then he repeatedly undermined any efforts to combat it. He still claims it will just 'go away'.

We're a republic with 50 states, each acting independently with very
different populations & policies. Trump's downplaying the danger is
a problem, but he doesn't control the governors. There are limits to
federal power, ya know.

But he also makes loyalty to what he says a condition to speak with him at all. He threatens to withhold federal money for those that don't do his bidding (even when an empty threat in terms of budget, this is a severe threat politically). By refusing to conduct a strong federal response, he has guaranteed 50 uncoordinated state responses, leading to the current debacle.

 

[Windwalker]

So, no, Trump didn't cause the corona virus. But it seems he has done whatever is necessary to make the effects of this virus as bad as possible.

Covid-19, thanks Donald Trump for his support of it.

 

[metis]

Do children spread coronavirus? What doctors say about going back to school

FTA: “Evidence suggests that children are not as susceptible as adults to COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. Even among those who have been infected, it's relatively rare for children to develop serious complications or require hospitalization.”

That's called "old news". Better late than never though.

But beware of getting excited to send kids back en masse because three countries in e. Asia sent the kids back but then had to shut down again as the number of cases both in and out of school rose significantly.

 

[Polymath257]

Despite there being limited federal power, there is still some power.
You should be thankful that Trump's power is so limited....or do you
wish he had even more?

He has the power to require much-needed medical supplied be produced, but has refused to use it. That has lead to severe shortages.

 

[Revoltingest]

Those "getting tough on safe behavior" measures, will have restrictions placed on commerce. Bars. Restaurants. Gyms. To be tough on safe behavior, we have to in fact be safe. Opening bars was tried, and the result was a firestorm of infections.

This brings up the issue of balance.
Don't shut paint stores, ban boating, or prohibit travel to vacation homes.
But shutting bars....I see that as more reasonable.
Requiring masks & social separation are essential.
I'd also encourage contact tracing. NY is now
requiring this in some circumstances.

What suggestions would you have? Bars with plexiglass screens between bar stools? Water down the booze so people don't get tipsy and forget there's a deadly, highly contagious pandemic right now, as they lean in close to talk to their bestest friends ever? Turn off the music so people don't talk loudly and spew their viruses in magic mushroom clouds for the other inebriated party goers?

See above.
I say that bars are exceptionally dangerous compared to paint stores.

Don't kid yourself.

I could say the same thing to you.

The leader of this country sets an example to all its citizens, undermining all credible voices. As leader of the federal government, he most certainly could have done a far better job in giving states what they need, rather than dolling out favors to those governors who suck Trump's dictatorial thumb. We are where we are, instead of a far better place at this point, solely because of Trump's absolute lack of leadership, or basic human compassion.

While Trump was setting a bad example, so was our governor.
Trump lacks the kind of authority granted to a leader in many other countries.
And I don't believe that he should have more power than he does.

I'll share this because I just saw this, and it fits perfectly with how Trump and Friend's are not in touch with reality, and are leading us to anywhere but a successful reopening by ignoring all the experts:

I'm not doing videos.
But neither am I disputing Trump's poor leadership.
We should also acknowledge poor leadership by many governors.

 

[Revoltingest]

Tough. When the shutdown happened we had no idea what was going on but only knew people were getting sick, hospitals and ICUs were getting stressed and people were dying. We had no idea how the virus was spreading either.

20-20 hindsight does not "cut the mustard" as they say.

I don't see how that is a response to my post.

He's not the sole cause but his lying has caused problems by making the pandemic a political issue turning his followers off of sane and sensible measures. We all pay for that.

I've said he showed poor leadership.
Do you agree?

 

[Revoltingest]

We tried shutting things down, but not nearly for long enough to do what needed to be done. By opening up, we eliminated any advantage that shutdown provided. We wasted that effort.

People need to social distance. That means bars, beaches, restaurants, etc, need to be closed unless they can maintain that distance. People have shown they are unwilling to do the basic steps required, which is why the economy is going to have to close down AGAIN.

Essentially, we have decided that having 200,000 die is something we can deal with so people can go out to eat. That, to me, is sick.

The problem I saw was shutting down too much, & not requiring
good safety practices, eg, separation, masks, contact tracing.
There are complexities to shutting vs opening....it shouldn't
be one or the other taken to extreme. Some opening is safe,
despite having been banned, eg, boating, buying paint.
Other opening is dangerous, eg, bars....not places where
responsible behavior is likely.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, he said exactly that multiple times at the beginning. Then he repeatedly undermined any efforts to combat it. He still claims it will just 'go away'.

I don't recall him saying it's a "hoax".
Links?

But he also makes loyalty to what he says a condition to speak with him at all. He threatens to withhold federal money for those that don't do his bidding (even when an empty threat in terms of budget, this is a severe threat politically). By refusing to conduct a strong federal response, he has guaranteed 50 uncoordinated state responses, leading to the current debacle.

I agree that he should've offered a better response, one coordinated.
But the states will still act independently, & this is beyond (fortunately)
his control.

 

[Revoltingest]

He has the power to require much-needed medical supplied be produced, but has refused to use it. That has lead to severe shortages.

I recall hearing on NPR interviews with suppliers who are
working beyond usual capacity to fulfill needs. Do you have
particular examples of companies who aren't doing what
they could, & need federal control?