Children and how to talk with them about matters of belief

[LuisDantas]

I happen to live in a society that, to my continuous frustration, generally discourages open discussion of matters of religious belief, to the point of actually advising people not to make their own beliefs clear without specific invitation.

At the same time, it is also a largely Christian community, and one where it is not at all unusual to raise children from an early age into either Catholicism, Protestantism or a soft syncretism based on either. Those same parents very often expect or even encourage the school teachers to make their children aware of the diversity of creeds.

I wonder how exactly that works in practice. Given how difficult it is for so many adults (including myself) to quite wrap our heads around that diversity, I just don't know what is usual, expected or hoped for children to conclude when faced with what, to me, appear to be a direct conflict of claims. On the one hand, I don't expect or even want a Priest or Catholic Father to ask who among the presents are not believers before inviting the people present at a marriage to participate on the prayers.

Still, is treating the people present as "believers until otherwise evidenced" the best possible behavior? I would think not. I see no upside in encouraging children to expect a homogeneity of belief that they will eventually see challenged by other sources, hopefully soon. Adults are not supposed to hold serious malice towards each other simply for having diverging beliefs, and it seems to me that children may and should be taught that lesson from very early ages as well.

It is probably a fair bit easier when there is a healthy extended family available, as with so many other subject matters. There is a burden of consistence and harmony ever hanging over the parent's shoulders, and diversity of opinions (not only in matters of belief) tend therefore to be better introduced by slightly more distant relatives and loved ones. I happen to think that such is a necessary and important role, and I wonder how many people agree or disagree, and to which extent.

Anyone here with specific ideas and willing to share?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I do not have children, but if i one day should become a father i would when the child is old enough to understand introduce all the main religious texts/scriptures to the child, and help them study the one they get curious at, and if they change along the way, i will provide them with the scriptures they need.
Even as a buddhist i can not force this belief on to even my own children
My fianceè is a true believer in Wicca tradition, so that is also something the childen would be introduced to

 

[Altfish]

As an atheist/humanist I only bring the subject up when they do.
I'm now on grandchildren - my children have followed my path, although both did go to church in their youth as part of scouts/guides - they have found their own way and atheism suits them both.

My grandchildren are 10 and 2; the two year old hasn't a clue about gods; the 10 year old encounters it at school. If the topic comes up, it doesn't often, but I will say, "I don't believe in any gods". That might kill the conversation or stimulate it.

BUT it is up to them to make their mind up.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I happen to live in a society that, to my continuous frustration, generally discourages open discussion of matters of religious belief, to the point of actually advising people not to make their own beliefs clear without specific invitation.

At the same time, it is also a largely Christian community, and one where it is not at all unusual to raise children from an early age into either Catholicism, Protestantism or a soft syncretism based on either. Those same parents very often expect or even encourage the school teachers to make their children aware of the diversity of creeds.

I wonder how exactly that works in practice. Given how difficult it is for so many adults (including myself) to quite wrap our heads around that diversity, I just don't know what is usual, expected or hoped for children to conclude when faced with what, to me, appear to be a direct conflict of claims. On the one hand, I don't expect or even want a Priest or Catholic Father to ask who among the presents are not believers before inviting the people present at a marriage to participate on the prayers.

Still, is treating the people present as "believers until otherwise evidenced" the best possible behavior? I would think not. I see no upside in encouraging children to expect a homogeneity of belief that they will eventually see challenged by other sources, hopefully soon. Adults are not supposed to hold serious malice towards each other simply for having diverging beliefs, and it seems to me that children may and should be taught that lesson from very early ages as well.

It is probably a fair bit easier when there is a healthy extended family available, as with so many other subject matters. There is a burden of consistence and harmony ever hanging over the parent's shoulders, and diversity of opinions (not only in matters of belief) tend therefore to be better introduced by slightly more distant relatives and loved ones. I happen to think that such is a necessary and important role, and I wonder how many people agree or disagree, and to which extent.

Anyone here with specific ideas and willing to share?

I am a parent of two adolescents. Because of the lack of availability of teachers, I ran my own children's classes. The programme focused on virtues that are common to all religions. There was the availability of resources such as stories, songs, drawing and drama. Memorisation of sacred writings was integral. We learnt about the different world religions. It was about an opportunity to discuss ideas and concepts. They weren't classes of indoctrination but learning a framework and the skills to critically evaluate.

The most important outcome I would hope for is young people with good character, who are comfortable with diversity, compassionate, able to contribute and to be resilient.

 

[ChristineM]

Like @Altfish religion is only discussed when the kids bring it up so it's not talked about much but when we do we have always encouraged them to make up their own minds.

A few years ago our son started going to sunday school and church. I think primarily because his friends were there. After about a year he began asking questions that his teacher was unable to answer to his satisfaction so, dissatisfied with religion he left. He now considers himself agnostic, a word we had to teach him when he said he doesn't know if god is real or not.

Both daughters have never had an need for relogion

Recently we have had a couple of catholic friends die. Attending the funerals was both sad and an education for them instigating a few chats on christian ritual.

 

[1213]

Children and how to talk with them about matters of belief

To that question my answer is, with respect and love.

 

[SalixIncendium]

On the one hand, I don't expect or even want a Priest or Catholic Father to ask who among the presents are not believers before inviting the people present at a marriage to participate on the prayers.

This stood out to me as a bit odd, and I would hope such a thing doesn’t happen, as I think it would be in bad form to single people out as such.

But I digress.

Anyone here with specific ideas and willing to share?

My daughters were raised with Christian influence, my elder daughter with Catholic influence from her grandmother and great-grandmother, and my younger from her mother and step-father. Both went to church as children.

My own path has always been more private and solitary nature, and while I would attend church on Christian holidays as a family function, that was the extent of my participation.

I never forced my views on either daughter, but didn’t hide them from them (or anyone else) either. Whenever asked, I would answer questions openly and honestly and when asked which path should be followed by either one, I would simply tell them to believe whatever they felt was correct, whether it was a Christian path, Catholic path, my path, or a completely different path.

The only thing really instilled was that religious views are a personal thing and they should not follow a path simply because another (parents included) does or tells them they should.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I happen to live in a society that, to my continuous frustration, generally discourages open discussion of matters of religious belief, to the point of actually advising people not to make their own beliefs clear without specific invitation.

At the same time, it is also a largely Christian community, and one where it is not at all unusual to raise children from an early age into either Catholicism, Protestantism or a soft syncretism based on either. Those same parents very often expect or even encourage the school teachers to make their children aware of the diversity of creeds.

I wonder how exactly that works in practice. Given how difficult it is for so many adults (including myself) to quite wrap our heads around that diversity, I just don't know what is usual, expected or hoped for children to conclude when faced with what, to me, appear to be a direct conflict of claims. On the one hand, I don't expect or even want a Priest or Catholic Father to ask who among the presents are not believers before inviting the people present at a marriage to participate on the prayers.

Still, is treating the people present as "believers until otherwise evidenced" the best possible behavior? I would think not. I see no upside in encouraging children to expect a homogeneity of belief that they will eventually see challenged by other sources, hopefully soon. Adults are not supposed to hold serious malice towards each other simply for having diverging beliefs, and it seems to me that children may and should be taught that lesson from very early ages as well.

It is probably a fair bit easier when there is a healthy extended family available, as with so many other subject matters. There is a burden of consistence and harmony ever hanging over the parent's shoulders, and diversity of opinions (not only in matters of belief) tend therefore to be better introduced by slightly more distant relatives and loved ones. I happen to think that such is a necessary and important role, and I wonder how many people agree or disagree, and to which extent.

Anyone here with specific ideas and willing to share?

I think the Bible encourages parents to help the next generation to hope in God (Psalm 78 for example) or teach children the importance of fearing God (Proverbs, for example )
Many parts of the Bible can be understood on a child's level fine and speak to children (and an adult can go deeper with)

I don't see a wait till they grow up pattern there

I am impressed with the group 'children desiring God' at www.childrendesiringgod,,org and I
agree with their approaches of teaching children various ways

 

[dybmh]

"Children and how to talk with them about matters of belief..."

I have 2 kids. As you know, we are not enforcing any religion on them but we are trying to teach them to be spiritually and emotionally aware.

For my wife and I, intellect and emotions are spiritual and universal. From this perspective respecting another person's feelings and their intellectual limits is Holy. Respecting / recognizing our own feelings and intellectual limits is a path towards Holiness.

That's what we are **trying** teach the kids about belief: Awareness, respect, humility, diversity.

We try to balance teaching ( talking about it ) with role-modeling.

But since the OP asks about talking, here are some examples:

Our kids discovered very early that Santa Claus is not real. Naturally, my wife and I were concerned that once our kids figured this out, they would want to share their discovery with their friends.

Part of answering their questions about Santa Claus included a discussion of how another child would feel if they liked believing in Santa, and found out abruptly that Santa isn't real. In addition, we asked them to think about the big picture.

Telling a child that Santa isn't real might be contradicting what their parents taught them; might be contradicting what their grandparents taught them. Then we asked them to consider how it would make a child feel, if they suddenly discovered that their parents and grandparents had misled them.

Additionally we have tried to encourage them to recognize the limits of their own understanding.

On the topic of Santa Claus, we encouraged them to ask themselves the questions, "how do you know Santa is not real?" and "If Santa represents gift giving and cheerfulness during the middle of winter, isn't that real? Cheerfulness is real. The good feeling we get from gift giving in the winter is real." "Does Santa have to be a person scooting down a chimney and riding in a flying sleigh with flying reindeer to be real?"

Another example:

Kids argue and fight. My daughter is 14. She has a rotating cast of friends, a few close ones and then maybe a dozen more in her friend group. A few months ago my daughter was very sad because she said her best friend broke her confidence and now, according to my daughter, everyone at school knows about a boy my daughter thinks is cute.

After a few weeks, my daughter still hadn't gotten over the betrayal even though, it was old news, and people were gossiping about other things.

My daughter's primary complaint was that her friend did not apologize or seem to be bothered that they were no longer close friends.

In this case, my wife and I did essentially the same thing that we did when my kids discovered that Santa Claus wasn't real. We encouraged her to ask questions, to think critically, and to try to assess the confidence of her assertions. We asked, "How do you know that your friend isn't sorry?" and "How do you know they are not sad that you two are not close friends anymore?" Once my daughter recognized the limits her own knowledge, and that her perception of her friend's feelings was based on belief, then my wife and I started encouraging reconciliation, how to break the ice in order to have the initial difficult conversation, how to suspend the natural desire for fairness for the sake of peace-making, etc...

Essentially what I am describing is that my wife and I encourage critical thinking, emotional intelligence, and empathy.

Part of the emotional awareness we are trying to teach to our kids includes elements of spiritual awareness. Because to us, emotions are spiritual. And because emotions are universal, we are teaching the kids that spirituality is universal as well.

But we are NOT teaching them that belief in God is universal. In fact we are teaching them the opposite. We are teaching them that just like 2 people will have vastly different feelings about Santa Claus, and 2 people will have a vastly different approach to peace-making ( avoidance vs. talk-it-out immediately ); no two people should be expected to have the same feelings and beliefs about God.

That is how my wife and I are talking to our kids about "belief".

1) We encourage curiosity and critical thinking. We ask questions like, "How do you know?"
2) We talk a lot about emotions. We encourage emotional awareness and empathy. We ask questions like, "How do you think they feel?"
3) We connect emotions with the "spirit", because emotions are universal.
4) We make the important distinction, when possible, that even though emotions are universal, each person is affected by their emotions, by "the spirit", in their own unique way.

Awareness, respect, humility, diversity.

 

[bobhikes]

I happen to live in a society that, to my continuous frustration, generally discourages open discussion of matters of religious belief, to the point of actually advising people not to make their own beliefs clear without specific invitation.

At the same time, it is also a largely Christian community, and one where it is not at all unusual to raise children from an early age into either Catholicism, Protestantism or a soft syncretism based on either. Those same parents very often expect or even encourage the school teachers to make their children aware of the diversity of creeds.

I wonder how exactly that works in practice. Given how difficult it is for so many adults (including myself) to quite wrap our heads around that diversity, I just don't know what is usual, expected or hoped for children to conclude when faced with what, to me, appear to be a direct conflict of claims. On the one hand, I don't expect or even want a Priest or Catholic Father to ask who among the presents are not believers before inviting the people present at a marriage to participate on the prayers.

Still, is treating the people present as "believers until otherwise evidenced" the best possible behavior? I would think not. I see no upside in encouraging children to expect a homogeneity of belief that they will eventually see challenged by other sources, hopefully soon. Adults are not supposed to hold serious malice towards each other simply for having diverging beliefs, and it seems to me that children may and should be taught that lesson from very early ages as well.

It is probably a fair bit easier when there is a healthy extended family available, as with so many other subject matters. There is a burden of consistence and harmony ever hanging over the parent's shoulders, and diversity of opinions (not only in matters of belief) tend therefore to be better introduced by slightly more distant relatives and loved ones. I happen to think that such is a necessary and important role, and I wonder how many people agree or disagree, and to which extent.

Anyone here with specific ideas and willing to share?

My Family has always been open on topics of government, religion and race. It is discussed freely and without real vise, some will get overly energetic but will always back down. We also realize that there are friends that don't like discussing this stuff so refrain when people become offended. There is no easy answer people are individual, you'll notice I left out sex. Sex and finances are not a topics openly discussed in my family and shut down quickly when brought up. I have problems discussing sex with others as well and am more conservative on the topic. This is always going to be the case with individuals and never going to be resolved. The best way to treat it is for us to be more tolerant and not get angry because others see things differently then us. When possible politely discuss, if that is not possible politely disagree and leave them be. We can't fix everyone concentrate on those you can.

 

[metis]

On the one hand, I don't expect or even want a Priest or Catholic Father to ask who among the presents are not believers before inviting the people present at a marriage to participate on the prayers.

I've never heard that said here over my 50 years of attending mass, including many weddings and funerals. The closest to that are statements by the priest that only Catholics should partake in the Eucharist. Which makes me wonder if it's much less a Catholic thingy but more a societal thingy as there literally is nothing within Canon Law that prohibits a person of another faith from participating in the mass minus the Eucharist?

But your OP is quite disturbing regardless of the cause as you know that I'm quite ecumenical, plus I've had a long dislike of any kind of "my way or the highway" approach.

 

[LuisDantas]

I do not have children, but if i one day should become a father i would when the child is old enough to understand introduce all the main religious texts/scriptures to the child, and help them study the one they get curious at, and if they change along the way, i will provide them with the scriptures they need.
Even as a buddhist i can not force this belief on to even my own children
My fianceè is a true believer in Wicca tradition, so that is also something the childen would be introduced to

What would you use to gauge the proper moment? The questions made by the children themselves?

Do you have any idea of whether there could be tension if someone else close becomes more overt about such matters? Perhaps even older family children?

As an atheist/humanist I only bring the subject up when they do.
I'm now on grandchildren - my children have followed my path, although both did go to church in their youth as part of scouts/guides - they have found their own way and atheism suits them both.

My grandchildren are 10 and 2; the two year old hasn't a clue about gods; the 10 year old encounters it at school. If the topic comes up, it doesn't often, but I will say, "I don't believe in any gods". That might kill the conversation or stimulate it.

BUT it is up to them to make their mind up.

Have you had to deal with marriage or funeral situations with your children?

Has the oldest one asked about any situations where people assumed him to be a theist?

I am a parent of two adolescents. Because of the lack of availability of teachers, I ran my own children's classes. The programme focused on virtues that are common to all religions. There was the availability of resources such as stories, songs, drawing and drama. Memorisation of sacred writings was integral. We learnt about the different world religions. It was about an opportunity to discuss ideas and concepts. They weren't classes of indoctrination but learning a framework and the skills to critically evaluate.

The most important outcome I would hope for is young people with good character, who are comfortable with diversity, compassionate, able to contribute and to be resilient.

That is nice.

I take it that they generally do not (and did not) make a big deal out of divergence of creeds among the people they interact with?

Like @Altfish religion is only discussed when the kids bring it up so it's not talked about much but when we do we have always encouraged them to make up their own minds.

A few years ago our son started going to sunday school and church. I think primarily because his friends were there. After about a year he began asking questions that his teacher was unable to answer to his satisfaction so, dissatisfied with religion he left. He now considers himself agnostic, a word we had to teach him when he said he doesn't know if god is real or not.

Both daughters have never had an need for religion

Recently we have had a couple of catholic friends die. Attending the funerals was both sad and an education for them instigating a few chats on christian ritual.

Thanks.

This stood out to me as a bit odd, and I would hope such a thing doesn’t happen, as I think it would be in bad form to single people out as such.

But I digress.

I want to be clear: it is exceedingly rare for Priests of any persuation to single people out in public cerimonies such as marriages and funerals, at least in my direct experience. I never saw that happen, personally.

However, it seems to me that there is a downside to such a situation. I for one do not particularly enjoy being presumed Catholic, although I do accept that it may be the best approach under the circunstances. And I can't help but worry a bit about what the children present may be thinking.

My daughters were raised with Christian influence, my elder daughter with Catholic influence from her grandmother and great-grandmother, and my younger from her mother and step-father. Both went to church as children.

My own path has always been more private and solitary nature, and while I would attend church on Christian holidays as a family function, that was the extent of my participation.

I never forced my views on either daughter, but didn’t hide them from them (or anyone else) either. Whenever asked, I would answer questions openly and honestly and when asked which path should be followed by either one, I would simply tell them to believe whatever they felt was correct, whether it was a Christian path, Catholic path, my path, or a completely different path.

The only thing really instilled was that religious views are a personal thing and they should follow a path simply because another (parents included) does or tells them they should.

That is nice (although I think that there is a "not" implied there in the last sentence, between "should" and "follow").

I think the Bible encourages parents to help the next generation to hope in God (Psalm 78 for example) or teach children the importance of fearing God (Proverbs, for example )
Many parts of the Bible can be understood on a child's level fine and speak to children (and an adult can go deeper with)

I don't see a wait till they grow up pattern there

I am impressed with the group 'children desiring God' at www.childrendesiringgod,,org and I
agree with their approaches of teaching children various ways

Thanks for the input. Do you have any experience with exposure of those children to other creeds (or simple lack of interest in religion) that you would be willing to share?

I've never heard that said here over my 50 years of attending mass, including many weddings and funerals. The closest to that are statements by the priest that only Catholics should partake in the Eucharist.

Your experience mirrors mine (I was raised in a largely lapsed-Catholic environment). The Eucharist part is, of course, entirely reasonable and justified.

Which makes me wonder if it's much less a Catholic thingy but more a societal thingy as there literally is nothing within Canon Law that prohibits a person of another faith from participating in the mass minus the Eucharist?

Here in Brazil, at least, it is indeed far more of a social expectation than a religious expectation. People are generally free to attend any or all of a variety of services without as much as feeling any need to state whether they are adherents. A good argument can be made that most Brazilians are in fact syncretics with vague boundaries of adherence, with a fair number rarely even thinking on those. Common "circunstantial beliefs" include Catholic, Protestant, Candomblé, Kardecist Spiritism, and a variety of New Age movements. Even Daime cults offer a variety of their own and are generally rather open to casual access.

But your OP is quite disturbing regardless of the cause as you know that I'm quite ecumenical, plus I've had a long dislike of any kind of "my way or the highway" approach.

I may have been unclear. If there was such an approach, I failed to notice it. I just wish people presented variety of creed a bit more explicitly in such situations.

 

[SalixIncendium]

That is nice (although I think that there is a "not" implied there in the last sentence, between "should" and "follow").

You are correct. I went back and fixed it. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Thief]

watched a science documentary about the manner of which children enter into belief

it's a bit more than what most people think

and it's not really so much the social environment
although that can be an influence

 

[Altfish]

Have you had to deal with marriage or funeral situations with your children?

Has the oldest one asked about any situations where people assumed him to be a theist?
.

My children are now in their 30s and have attended a few funerals, their grandparents on my wife's side and the saddest on a 30 year old cousin. All three funerals were non-religious; my son attended a friends funeral, can't remember what type of funeral that was.
Marriages and Christenings (Naming Ceremonies) are again predominantly non-religious but both have attended catholic and CofE ceremonies; without prompting both moaned about "All that god nonsense" and "Why can't they just talk about the couple or person?"
My grandson has been to weddings again mainly Humanist, one was a same-sex wedding. He has probably been to other weddings that I wasn't invited to but I'm not sure.

My granddaughter has attended a few weddings religious and non-religious.

The second question is a funny one; in the UK, I think the default situation, certainly among the young is that you do not believe in a god. I'm not aware of him being asked such a question.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What would you use to gauge the proper moment? The questions made by the children themselves?

Do you have any idea of whether there could be tension if someone else close becomes more overt about such matters? Perhaps even older family children?



Have you had to deal with marriage or funeral situations with your children?

Has the oldest one asked about any situations where people assumed him to be a theist?




That is nice.

I take it that they generally do not (and did not) make a big deal out of divergence of creeds among the people they interact with?



Thanks.



I want to be clear: it is exceedingly rare for Priests of any persuation to single people out in public cerimonies such as marriages and funerals, at least in my direct experience. I never saw that happen, personally.

However, it seems to me that there is a downside to such a situation. I for one do not particularly enjoy being presumed Catholic, although I do accept that it may be the best approach under the circunstances. And I can't help but worry a bit about what the children present may be thinking.




That is nice (although I think that there is a "not" implied there in the last sentence, between "should" and "follow").




Thanks for the input. Do you have any experience with exposure of those children to other creeds (or simple lack of interest in religion) that you would be willing to share?



Your experience mirrors mine (I was raised in a largely lapsed-Catholic environment). The Eucharist part is, of course, entirely reasonable and justified.



Here in Brazil, at least, it is indeed far more of a social expectation than a religious expectation. People are generally free to attend any or all of a variety of services without as much as feeling any need to state whether they are adherents. A good argument can be made that most Brazilians are in fact syncretics with vague boundaries of adherence, with a fair number rarely even thinking on those. Common "circunstantial beliefs" include Catholic, Protestant, Candomblé, Kardecist Spiritism, and a variety of New Age movements. Even Daime cults offer a variety of their own and are generally rather open to casual access.



I may have been unclear. If there was such an approach, I failed to notice it. I just wish people presented variety of creed a bit more explicitly in such situations.

I would wait until they started asking question, and maybe they would ask about buddha statue i have in my home, or if they had other questions i would let them ask, No need to force them in to a religious belief if they do not want

 

[pearl]

This stood out to me as a bit odd, and I would hope such a thing doesn’t happen, as I think it would be in bad form to single people out as such.

It doesn't happen.

 

[Thief]

No need to force them in to a religious belief if they do not want

THAT part......they do not know

like the first time you ask them......would you like a peanut nutter and jelly sandwich?
and they have yet to have one made for them

how would they KNOW.?....what they want

ask a child....would you like to believe in God?

you are likely to here a question in return.....WHAT is god?

or if the child is altogether trusting..... a quick nod of the head
not really knowing what is about to happen

 

[Spirit of Light]

THAT part......they do not know

like the first time you ask them......would you like a peanut nutter and jelly sandwich?
and they have yet to have one made for them

how would they KNOW.?....what they want

ask a child....would you like to believe in God?

you are likely to here a question in return.....WHAT is god?

or if the child is altogether trusting..... a quick nod of the head
not really knowing what is about to happen

When not telling them to much, but give information when they ask, in my eyes give them more curiosity

 

[Thief]

and of course....the Easter Bunny
Santa Claus
the tooth fairy

and then later when THOSE ideas are broken
so too the ability to reason toward a Deity