That influence would be to impart unto all those people the reason the Law was made.
It is not to make their choices for them.
Regards Tony
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Catholic church cannot bless same-sex unions
- Thread starter Altfish
- Start date
That influence would be to impart unto all those people the reason the Law was made.
It is not to make their choices for them.
Regards Tony
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
So instead, stuck in the (ignorant) past.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
Like it is not up to date on basic demonstrable truths like homosexuality is neither a choice nor a psychological illness?
The Vatican has advanced on other fronts I believe.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
And you expect us, who don't share this faith, to "respect" this belief of yours and perhaps even accomodate to it, I bet, simply by virtue that you believe it.
What if I had a faith belief that states it is immoral to be black?
Having said that, I don't really care one bit.
I'm not a catholic and "church approved" marriages mean absolutely nothing here in Belgium.
Only secular marriages are recognized.
It doesn't matter if you get married in church or not. Getting married in city hall, is the way you "officialize" a marriage in Belgium.
For gay people who wish to get married in church... I don't know. Firstly I'ld ask why on earth they would want to, given that that church's theology says they should be killed for what they'll do during the wedding night.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
Maybe that is what the non-Christian Jews said about the newly flourishing Jesus movement...just a thought.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I don't think you meant to use that term. What does control of your bowel and bladder have to do with sexuality?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Where did you get your commitment to truth?
Can you tell us?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Don't bother. The Borgia's just kept it all secret, the hidden partners, children, the poisons, ...... Carry on.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Because the laws were cherry picked from hundreds of others who h were ignored.
Wouldn't be the first time.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Question for charity's sake. Does one literally have to get married in city hall, or just get one's marriage officially registered there?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I'm pretty sure you have to go through a ceremony, with 2 witnesses, with at least an "i do", "i do" and signature.
I've seen quite a few marriages around me. Some of them did a church wedding. And from church, they went to city hall for a second ceremony.
That's where I showed up. I wouldn't want to ruin their church wedding ceremony by bursting into flames or something, you know...
Anyhow, since there's always a ceremony in city hall, regardless of what happens in church, I assume that merely "registering" isn't enough. Why else would they "get married twice"?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Interesting. I do believe that one has to register a wedding here for it to be official, though that may vary from state to state. And almost anyone can marry someone else in most states if they are willing to jump through some very minor hoops. I am peaking from personal knowledge of this, I "married" the son of my housemate a bit over a year ago. It is always fun to say that I married either him or his wife. That will almost always get some weird looks from people.I'm pretty sure you have to go through a ceremony, with 2 witnesses, with at least an "i do", "i do" and signature.
I've seen quite a few marriages around me. Some of them did a church wedding. And from church, they went to city hall for a second ceremony.
That's where I showed up. I wouldn't want to ruin their church wedding ceremony by bursting into flames or something, you know...
Anyhow, since there's always a ceremony in city hall, regardless of what happens in church, I assume that merely "registering" isn't enough. Why else would they "get married twice"?
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
This is no different than a committed Marxist found accumulating wealth, or a PETA
volunteer wearing fur and going hunting. If you want to have a business, wear fur
or go hunting then don't belong to these ideologies. You don't go and change them
to suit your new views.
And if you believe in homosexuality, or euthenasia, or abortion, or adultery, or
divorce, or gambling, or drug or whatever else is acceptable in the 21st Century then
don't be a Catholic.
Corinthians
‘Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be
deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice
homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will
inherit the kingdom of God’
So do we pick and chose which of the above quote from Paul to be acceptable?
Yes, it all depends on what you're going to define as sin. (I italicize for emphasis, because all such definitions are ours.)
In the case of the Catholic Church, they have decided that the sexual faculty is about procreation. And therefore, any use of that faculty that can't result in procreation must be sinful. (They ignore such things as infertility and menopause, because of course God could, if He so chose, arrange it so that the sexual act results in conception -- which, paradoxically, ignores the fact that God, who managed to inseminate Mary without semen, could just as easily arrange for the lesbian to knock her partner up with spit, or for the gay male to have an "ectopic" sort of pregnancy, but never mind.)
This "definition" of the sexual faculty as being about procreation ignores the obvious fact that lots of things can have multiple uses. So the sexual faculty could also be about pleasure, about bonding to create mutually supportive partnerships -- or even about economic activity.
I suspect, using this same logic, the Church could not sanction the use of a kitchen chair as something one can stand on to screw in a new lightbulb. Chairs are for sitting -- if you need to screw in a lightbulb, buy a ladder!
It always strikes me as funny when people quote a passage that condemns "revilers" and homosexuality to argue for reviling homosexuality. I think you may find the things the Bible says about hypocrisy to be relevant to your approach.
As for the Catholic Church, they're consistently late to catch on with anything involving human rights or ethics. Heck - we're talking about the organization that operated slave workhouses until freakin' 1996(!).
Religion is what it is.
Doesn't need to make sense to be believed with great faith & fervor.
We can say as much about all sorts of things that we might find less than desirable. Anti-semitism, homophobia, white supremacy, pastafarianism -- even erotic fascination with engines.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Back when the PPP was all the news media would cover, the first thing the Church did was deny it.
Then they claimed that "homosexuals have infiltrated the priest hood"
Then it leaked that it had been going on for hundreds of years with hundreds, if not thousands of "homosexual infiltrates" being shuffled around from church to church instead of anything actually being done about it.
Which shows that, based upon the Churches own official releases, the Church not only allows homosexuals into the church, but that there is no problem with homosexuals being priests.
In fact, there was little problem with "homosexual infiltrates" abusing the congregation.
At least according to the official press release position of the church.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
I don't think people who held their communities together for thousands of years
were 'ignorant.'
Old saying, "Don't pull a fence down unless you first learn why it was put there
in the first place." And we busy pulling down every fence our grandfathers and
great grandfathers erected or maintained. Now even the right of free speech is
seen as an impediment for political aims. Science is seen as an indefensible
tool for Capitalism. We have found easier 'whole learning' ways of teaching kids
to be illiterate. Economics students aren't even taught the 'old fashioned' ways
of markets. Rejecting debt is out of fashion. Working to keep your marriage intact
is seen as a bad move. In my country instead of being number 4 in literacy we are
now 18 months behind Singapore, and 3 years behind Sth Korea in mathematics.
There's something to be said about old fashioned ways - not in our clothes but in
our behavior.