Cartones,burn Quran day,film, what next ?

[Lady B]

A film did not hurt people, A film did not hurt Islam
violent reactions to a film did hurt people,
and did hurt Islam.

America did not hurt people, America did not hurt Islam
violent reactions to a film hurt Americans
But we will not let violent reactions to films hurt America!

 

[Godobeyer]

I was strictly going by the dictionary's definition of 'Islam' in Arabic, which shows that the word means 'submission' rather than 'peace'.

Maybe the definition varies depending on how one interprets the teachings of the religion itself, though.

i believe that Islam word and Salam , had same letters , and same root .
i don't know from where Yusuf estes bring the definition of "Islam",but i am agree with him

Would that include, say, Left-Hand Path religions and Pagan ones or not?

i don't know why you want my opinion about Left-Hand Path religions and Pagan !!!
i had no idea about these religions .

If we take "protection" to mean not criticizing it, then no, I don't believe that Satanism, or any other religion, should be "protected" that way. I think that all ideas, including religions, should be open to criticism and not given special exemption just because people may hold strong feelings toward them.

the duty of protect and and right of critic respectiful are different matters .

critic (debate) doesnot mean forecly mock or lie or make fake event about other religions .

the right way of criticing for my understanding , is debate with respect and true events.

 

[Godobeyer]

I don't understand two things:

1) why certain religious people feel like their religion is so fragile that it can't be questioned or criticized, even respectfully;

2) why people feel the need to insult belief systems they don't believe in? There's no reason to be insulting, IMO.

None of the two above questions justifies violent reactions though.

very good questions sister .
for my opinion , the west are enough to lie and mock about Jesus (pbuh) , they turn to others prophet (others religion ) , especialy whom considerate the most religion expansion in the world, i hard that 7 christians convert to Islam when they hard about this movie , they decide to made a research about Islam .

i wounder why they aim only Islam religion ? is not other religion ?


sometimes , everyday i read in the journal (Algerian jouranl) european people , comes to Algeria then they decide to convert to Islam.

last Ramadan , i read a story about european man, decide to enter to Islam , when he saw how the mercy and love between the muslims in Ramadan .

 

[Godobeyer]

It's going to be interesting to see if they can live up to their own challenge and stop running shows about the Jews as the enemies of God and killers of the prophets.

it's not accusation , the jews killers of prophets exist in Torah .


1Ki 19:1 ¶ And Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and withal how he had slain all the prophets with the sword.

1Ki 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15 And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:

 

[Godobeyer]

OK. You do not agree with their stance in any way at all. Point taken.

good

It's not an odd question if it is supposed to somehow mitigate the slaughter of innocents. I don't care if they love their prophet, is the point.

i don't care if any (non-muslim ) love or hate my prophet or my god or my religion , the point is this film is lie and mock about my Prophet,
it's not origin story , that's the point .
- i care just when someone used (as justification ) the freedom of speech to lie and mock and provoke .

Because it's a big world and the idea that one is more important than another is killing thousands...obviously.

good big world !!!
then why some western people used to attack muslims religion , why they always put their noises in our ....?

for killing the thousands

whom killing by the western armies or muslims groups ?

Well, that's pretty insulting. Love your prophet all you want, why should I want to stop you. Though, having said that, you yourself have explained that these people carry out these acts specifically because of their love for their prophet so where do we go from here? Do we capitulate our ideas of freedom in order that we can coincide with a terrorists idea of freedom? Aye, right.

I didn't say I paid attention to the media. You used media influence as a reason why people carry out attrocities. I am merely showing that the media do what they do. If those reading it are so uneducated to see the vested interest or manipulation of the information then whose fault is that? Not the slaughtered victims, that's for sure.
If you care about cheap movies, that's up to slaughtering terrorists, apparently.[/quote]
I didn't say I paid attention to the media. You used media influence as a reason why people carry out attrocities. I am merely showing that the media do what they do. If those reading it are so uneducated to see the vested interest or manipulation of the information then whose fault is that? Not the slaughtered victims, that's for sure.
If you care about cheap movies, that's up to slaughtering terrorists, apparently.
[Quote:]
i don't say if you paid attention to your media , i just describe how you show western media cheap , they care about in pesonel scandels !!!!

US knewn their be attack .
some report talking about , that White house , knew that there will be an attack in libya against ambassodor, before 48 hours
, it's same happpened when USA let the Alqaeda group Terrorism come to US , and they let them train how to fly with civil planes !!!! , do you believe it's just over trust ? or something planed ?

i believe the victims of 9/11 and ambasador are just victims of fail reaction of CIA and FBI

even if they don't know .
US and other countries knows well that Libya is most dangerous land in the world, right now, the weapons changed by food instead of money !!! , btw Algeria get arrest many supply weapons to the terrorites comes from Libya .

what make me wounder , how US always attacked by their weapons and tools (ALQaeda ) !!!
-maybe the ambassador killed by guns and missiles comes from NATO !!!!

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

the right way of criticing for my understanding , is debate with respect and true events.

I ask you again: What, exactly, would you do to fix this situation?

You want the US to pass laws which make it illegal to 'offend' other 'religions'?

Which religions would be protected? Specifically. Which religions?

And who would have the power to decide if a religion had been offended or if it had not been offended? Specifically. Can you name the person or the political office which would be in charge of enforcing the new law against offending other religions?

 

[Godobeyer]

I think the Muslim community needs to learn the age old rhyme, Sticks and Stones may break my bones but your words can never heart me.

In the "west", everyone has the freedom not for only speech but to practice their religion as well.

And about the increase of Terror against America, these videos and cartoons are not government funded, so i don't understand why the need to hate a country.

With the violent protests, especially those that happened in non-islamic countries, was a big disgrace for Islam it self, no one in the west would have even cared about the video or even the cartoons until the Muslims started running around like a pack of animals.

Where was the protest against the Killing of the Americans in Libya by the so called moderate Muslims?

How many Muslims protested against these violent protests?

Muslims are not special, I dont need say things differently just because i can offend a Muslim. If you have confidence in your religion, you can let these little things slide.

why there no protesting against the voilent protests

because it's correspeond (time ) the insulting of our Prophet .
i am with to protest against the voilence , or protest agaisnt insulting and voilence in same time .

by the way , Libyans protest against the killing of Americans in libya .

And Muslims insult my religion every time they call me words like Kufr (Kafir), which is in the Koran, you dont see the "Kafirs", having violent protests against the Koran do you, Do you see any Idol worshippers in Islamic countries clashing with police?

"kafir" is insult you ?!!!

"Kufar" is arabic word means disbelievers , i am not sure if "disbeliever" is insult too ? , because if some one ask you , if you believe or disblieve in Islam , you will reply "i disblieve in Islam " which mean you are disbliever to the muslims (not) believer .

not only the muslims , whom clashing with polices .

also hindos (idol worshiper) clashing with police

just use google to find pictures
hindus clashing police - Recherche Google

the catholic and protestant in GB , they always clashing !!!

 

[Godobeyer]

I ask you again: What, exactly, would you do to fix this situation?

You want the US to pass laws which make it illegal to 'offend' other 'religions'?

i was asked , this before

Which religions would be protected? Specifically. Which religions?

protected from lieing and mocking , all the religions .

And who would have the power to decide if a religion had been offended or if it had not been offended? Specifically. Can you name the person or the political office which would be in charge of enforcing the new law against offending other religions?

for my opinion some people here , exagerate (to the limite of lieing ) by the name of freedom of speech , even i told them if some one insult you or religion , they said "i accept" , for my opinion they had problem in degnity .


then let's suppose if some one protest in US , carrying the picture of Bin laden , and said in the pictures that Bin laden is his hero ? is this freedom of speech ?

how about if group of people decide to protest carrying picture "God bless Bin laden" (supporting Bin laden ) and alQaeda in NY or USA in general ?? they will allow to them or arrest them ?!!!

or some one decide to make a film about Bin laden how US supporting him against Rassia , how/why decide to hit USA , and made him Hero in that film ?!!!is this considerate a freedom of speech ?

i believe it's easy to provoke than to make someone calm down .

 

[Storm]

protected from lieing and mocking , all the religions .

I understand the impulse, but as a legal concept, it's unworkable. How does one distinguish liars from the honestly misinformed? Where is the line drawn between mockery and criticism?

then let's suppose if some one protest in US , carrying the picture of Bin laden , and said in the pictures that Bin laden is his hero ? is this freedom of speech ?

Yes.

how about if group of people decide to protest carrying picture "God bless Bin laden" (supporting Bin laden ) and alQaeda in NY or USA in general ?? they will allow to them or arrest them ?!!!

It would be illegal to prohibit them. That said, I would NOT want to be anywhere near that protest. I try to avoid riots.

or some one decide to make a film about Bin laden how US supporting him against Rassia , how/why decide to hit USA , and made him Hero in that film ?!!!is this considerate a freedom of speech ?

Yes.

i believe it's easy to provoke than to make someone calm down .

Indeed.

 

[Godobeyer]

I understand the impulse, but as a legal concept, it's unworkable. How does one distinguish liars from the honestly misinformed?

there is no honesly misinformed in this serieux issues

Where is the line drawn between mockery and criticism?

i don't know , for you is there a different ?

Yes.

that's in your dream maybe
i dare any one to tell his family (just for joke ) that he/she love bin laden .

surely they will hate him/her , then called the police , to arrest him/her :yes:

It would be illegal to prohibit them. That said, I would NOT want to be anywhere near that protest. I try to avoid riots.

come on , it's protest supporting bin laden (supporting terrorites ) hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh , US fighting Bin laden in Afghnistan , then they allow to protesting supporting him in NY city

Yes.

again !!!!, you must be kiding .

Indeed.

you right indeed .

 

[Storm]

there is no honesly misinformed in this serieux issues

Never underestimate human ignorance. Personally, there was a time when I honestly believed that the LDS church owned Pepsi, and that was why the no-caffeine rule made an exception for soda.

i don't know , for you is there a different ?

Yes, but there's no clear line separating them. Which is my point.

that's in your dream maybe

No, that's the law.

i dare any one to tell his family (just for joke ) that he/she love bin laden .

surely they will hate him/her , then called the police , to arrest him/her :yes:

You can't arrest someone for an opinion in this country. Also, the First Amendment in no way guarantees (or even implies) freedom from social consequences - that would be stupid. You're conflating popularity with prosecution.

come on , it's protest supporting bin laden (supporting terrorites ) hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh , US fighting Bin laden in Afghnistan , then they allow to protesting supporting him in NY city

I said prohibition would be illegal. I didn't say that it wouldn't happen, but it would be illegal.

again !!!!, you must be kiding .

No, I'm not. The First Amendment protects EVERY opinion. That's why the KKK still gets rally permits.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

i was asked , this before

I asked you before, and you did not answer. Will you answer now? Do you want the US to pass a new law against "offending other belief-systems"

protected from lieing and mocking , all the religions .

So you want every person to be protected from lying and mockery. After all, I have my own personal religion. You want me to have the power to arrest you if you lie about me or mock me?

If not, can you name which religions would be protected and which ones would not be protected?

then let's suppose if some one protest in US , carrying the picture of Bin laden , and said in the pictures that Bin laden is his hero ? is this freedom of speech? how about if group of people decide to protest carrying picture "God bless Bin laden" (supporting Bin laden ) and alQaeda in NY or USA in general ?? they will allow to them or arrest them ?!!!

This is why I'm so happy to see middle-eastern Muslims on this board. They really don't seem to even understand freedom of speech in the West. They can't even imagine it.

YES, YES, YES... such activities would absolutely be allowed in the US. I could proclaim that Bin Laden was the greatest hero of all time, and the government couldn't do anything to me, not legally. They could not arrest me. I could also call Barak Obama an idiot. A retarded fool. The government could not arrest me.

Of course, if I supported Bin Laden too loudly, the government would probably start to secretly watch me. That's because al Queda is an enemy of the state, and I might look like a threat to the government, but they would have to find some other reason to arrest me. They couldn't arrest me for praising Bin Laden.

This is my understanding of things. I welcome anyone else to correct me if I've got it wrong.

or some one decide to make a film about Bin laden how US supporting him against Rassia , how/why decide to hit USA , and made him Hero in that film ?!!!is this considerate a freedom of speech ?

YES!!! ABSOLUTELY! It's freedom of speech!

I am still amazed when Muslims ask such questions. Some of you guys really don't have any freedom of speech at all, do you.

Yes. One could certainly make such a film in the US without being arrested. We value freedom of speech and we work to protect it, even when we don't like the things which other people say.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

that's in your dream maybe
i dare any one to tell his family (just for joke ) that he/she love bin laden .
surely they will hate him/her , then called the police , to arrest him/her :yes:

I think you really don't understand freedom of speech in the west. The police could not arrest me for saying that I love bin Laden. You're just confused about that.

 

[jilliebean01]

I am an American, I am a Christ follower, and I am not anti Muslim.

I am however troubled by the extremist on both sides of the fence. You see, there are devout Muslims and devout Christians, while all this fighting is going on it is a hinderance to the whole of the Abrahamic faiths in growing. The innocent of all the abrahamic faiths as well as those whom are held in ignorance by contempt to prior investigation, are the true sufferers. Hatred and ignorance begets, you guessed it, hatred and ignorance. This is how the evil of the world builds up walls of ignorance, to hinder the work of God. People see a snipet from the news, hear a whisper from a neighbor and without investigating the core, make a decision that is quick, biased and unfruitful (in the sense of "good" fruits).

It is all an attack on God and his people, 2 agendas. Break the faiths down in hatred and try to get at God (Allah).

Peace
And that is my 2cents.

 

[beenie]

I cannot condone this behaviour and find it barbaric to say the least and a embarrassment to humanity

Pakistan official offers $100,000 reward for killing of maker of anti-Prophet Muhammad film - World News

A Pakistani government minister on Saturday announced a $100,000 bounty for the killing of the person who produced an online film that denigrates the Prophet Muhammad.

I have no words. I don't know when these people will realize that they won't get any respectful response to their protests when they act like barbarians.

"kafir" is insult you ?!!!

"Kufar" is arabic word means disbelievers , i am not sure if "disbeliever" is insult too ? , because if some one ask you , if you believe or disblieve in Islam , you will reply "i disblieve in Islam " which mean you are disbliever to the muslims (not) believer .

It's not the word "kafir" that's offensive, Godobeyer. It's the connotation behind it. I have yet to see the word used in a positive light. It's always like: "those KAFIRS act like this, dress like that, etc."

I never call anyone a kafir; I have NO idea what is in their hearts.

 

[gnostic]

protected from lieing and mocking , all the religions .

Lying?

The stupid film...which I haven't seen, and which i've no intention of seeing...was reportedly so bad that it shouldn't receive the reception it got.

And the film was obviously fictional. So when you make fictional film, then they weren't intending in telling the truth or make in any way "accurate".

It is a satire, not a documentary. A satire is seldom intended to be wholly accurate.

Do you think this stupid film is a documentary film?

Look up satire in a dictionary or wiki.

Satires were meant to be mocking of any political leader or public figure, past or present. Satires could also be used to criticize political or social (including religious) issues.

Technically, Muhammad was as much a political leader and warlord than a prophet.

I don't know when satires began, but the earliest person that I know was the 5th century BCE Athenian comedian, Aristophanes. He mocked and criticized Athenian politicians and generals in his time as well as before his time. He would also mocked religion, believers, mythological characters and even the gods.

The reason why I bring up satire is that it is a non-violent form of "protesting".

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Godobeyer;3090406]"kafir" is insult you ?!!!

yes it does.

"Kufar" is arabic word means disbelievers , i am not sure if "disbeliever" is insult too ? , because if some one ask you , if you believe or disblieve in Islam , you will reply "i disblieve in Islam " which mean you are disbliever to the muslims (not) believer .

And im worthy of death and damnation just because of this, that is what is insulting.

not only the muslims , whom clashing with polices .

also hindos (idol worshiper) clashing with police

just use google to find pictures
hindus clashing police - Recherche Google

Hmm, any pictures of Hindus clashing with police in western countries?????

How many Hindus killed Russian, when they decided to Ban the Gita?

How many violent clashes of Hindus and Police about the Gita thing in Sydney Australia?????

How many Russian embassies burned and people killed because of the Gita Ban protests???

 

[Music]

yes it does.



And im worthy of death and damnation just because of this, that is what is insulting.



Hmm, any pictures of Hindus clashing with police in western countries?????

How many Hindus killed Russian, when they decided to Ban the Gita?

How many violent clashes of Hindus and Police about the Gita thing in Sydney Australia?????

How many Russian embassies burned and people killed because of the Gita Ban protests???

Some people may say that Hindus are too weak to be violent.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Some people may say that Hindus are too weak to be violent.

No we are just too mild mannered, Plus we have confidence in our religion enough to brush off stupid misconceptions.

Peaceful protest is more civilized then barbaric violence, the Uncivilized and illiterate are more violent then the civilized and educated.

Hindus are better at protecting their Religions by practising it, instead of just getting offended.

Plus the Hindu is taught never to instigate any violence, peace is Hinduism.
Ahmisa is what Hinduism teaches, and you dont have to be just Hindu to be peaceful, any well cultures and civilized human being can practice Ahimsa.

 

[Music]

No we are just too mild mannered, Plus we have confidence in our religion enough to brush off stupid misconceptions.

Peaceful protest is more civilized then barbaric violence, the Uncivilized and illiterate are more violent then the civilized and educated.

Hindus are better at protecting their Religions by practising it, instead of just getting offended.

Plus the Hindu is taught never to instigate any violence, peace is Hinduism.
Ahmisa is what Hinduism teaches, and you dont have to be just Hindu to be peaceful, any well cultures and civilized human being can practice Ahimsa.

Are you sure? There are lots of Hindu fanatics in India who oppress the minorities. Human rights violations, police brutality ... not good evidence for Hindu being mild-mannered.