Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

[iam1me]

That's a perfectly sound way to interpret that. But, how do you interpret the verses that Miller used from Daniel to get to, eventually, 1844? If the starting time is correct, and we know how many years are supposed to transpire, then, at the end of those years, what was supposed to happen? Or, is the starting date wrong and the amount of years wrong?

The very idea that you can calculate the Day of the Lord is fundamentally wrong and contradictory to the testimony of scripture.

 

[CG Didymus]

They also expect a material unfoldment of an earthly King, just as the Christians do. Also I see the books are sealed and only opened by the Messenger of God. If one does not accept the Messenger, then one do not get to use the key to open the door.

This Link is an effort by Robert F. Riggs to give a commentary on the Book of Daniel. If you search for Muhammad in the text, it will show what he has connected Muhammad and Islam to in the book of Daniel.

I, Daniel

Christ also tells us to understand what Daniel said. I guess everyone is just to busy with this world to be as Abdul'baha was. When asked, Abdul'baha was able to give compelling interpretation of scripture. I know the world distracts me.

Regards Tony

But William Miller knew what the "sealed" prophecies meant? They weren't sealed very good.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But William Miller knew what the "sealed" prophecies meant? They weren't sealed very good.

Why do you say that? The meaning was not known until May 23rd 2 hrs after sunset 1844 when a new heaven and a new earth dawned on humanity.

The key became the new message and until one accepts and understands that message, they do not have the key.

Most still have not partaken and used the keys.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The very idea that you can calculate the Day of the Lord is fundamentally wrong and contradictory to the testimony of scripture.

Except it has been and was done, in complete harmony with scripture. We can of course, choose to not see it that way.

Regards Tony

 

[iam1me]

Except it has been and was done, in complete harmony with scripture. We can of course, choose to not see it that way.

Regards Tony

"In complete harmony with the scripture" ... if you ignore the plethora of scriptures explicitly contradicting you

 

[Muffled]

You oriiginatedfrom the Roman Church and they compiled the Bible.

I believe many protestants started out fresh going back to original documents. Granted Lutheranism, Church of England, derive from Catholicism and Calvin (Presbyterianism) does also. It is probably less likely an influence over Puritans and Baptists.

 

[Muffled]

Anyone can read the Koran and the hadiths, but to sit down and break bread and really talk and laugh together is very special. We have so much in common in terms of family, hopes and dreams, worries etc.

I believe chumminess doesn't save anyone.

 

[Muffled]

That is up to you to determine. You now have been told Christ returned as Baha'u'llah. Thus that becomes our Judgement day, to which all things are weighed.

"..The mystic and wondrous Bride, hidden ere this beneath the veiling of utterance, hath now, by the grace of God and His divine favor, been made manifest even as the resplendent light shed by the beauty of the Beloved. I bear witness, O friends! that the favor is complete, the argument fulfilled, the proof manifest and the evidence established. Let it now be seen what your endeavors in the path of detachment will reveal. In this wise hath the divine favor been fully vouchsafed unto you and unto them that are in heaven and on earth. All praise to God, the Lord of all Worlds..."

Regards Tony

I believe saying things that are not true doesn't help anyone.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why do you say that? The meaning was not known until May 23rd 2 hrs after sunset 1844 when a new heaven and a new earth dawned on humanity.

The key became the new message and until one accepts and understands that message, they do not have the key.

Most still have not partaken and used the keys.

Regards Tony

How can you say that, right back at you. William Miller said that he believed that was the time that Jesus would return. But, assuming the Baha'is are right, why do Jews and Christians down play those predictions? What other interpretations do they have that makes sense to what those prophecies are foretelling?

But that's the Bible. The 1260 years is also the Bible. What predictions of the date do Baha'is have from the Quran?

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe many protestants started out fresh going back to original documents. Granted Lutheranism, Church of England, derive from Catholicism and Calvin (Presbyterianism) does also. It is probably less likely an influence over Puritans and Baptists.

Note bold: There are no original documents. The closest we have are the Dead Sea scrolls for part of the OT, these were found recently. There is no evidence that the Protestants had any more documents than anyone else had at the time.

 

[shunyadragon]

How can you say that, right back at you. William Miller said that he believed that was the time that Jesus would return. But, assuming the Baha'is are right, why do Jews and Christians down play those predictions? What other interpretations do they have that makes sense to what those prophecies are foretelling?

But that's the Bible. The 1260 years is also the Bible. What predictions of the date do Baha'is have from the Quran?

The same reason that Jews downplayed and rejected the claims of Christianity.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe saying things that are not true doesn't help anyone.

As with Jews, Christians and Muslims also claiming things are true that others do not believe will not convince, nor help them if they reject them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But that's the Bible. The 1260 years is also the Bible. What predictions of the date do Baha'is have from the Quran?

In Shia Islam the year AH 1260 was significant, it was also independent of any Biblical reference. The Shia branch of Islam (the Bab and Baha'u'llah were of the Shia line) followed a series of 12 Imams. The authority of the 12 Imams traced back to Muhammad. The last of the Imams disappeared in the Islamic year 260 AH.

According to a reference in the Qur'an 32:5 authority was to be re-established after 1,000 years. Thus there was widespread anticipation among Shi'ites that the 12th Imam would return in Islamic year 1260 AH. This is also the year 1844 AD in the Christian calendar.

Many Muslim Divines that knew of this Prophecy, did accept the Bab.

The wiki link has interesting references about how some ministers saw how Christ might rerurn, described how it has happened and is happening quite visionary

Day-year principle - Wikipedia

"The following is an excerpt from "the Covenanter", a Reformed Presbyterian publication (1857):

“The end of the 1260 years will not at once usher in the brightness of the Millennial day. It will be marked by some occurrence, by some grand movement of Providence—such as the violent, it may be, and sudden crushing of the Papal power, and that of the corrupt and oppressive monarchies of the Old World, and of the governments similar to them in spirit, if not in form, in the New-— by some event in the pagan world, in which a new era will take its rise: new and signally successful efforts for the conversion of the Jews—for the evangelization of the nations-—for the subjecting of the “kingdoms of this world” to the law and government of “the Lord and of his Christ.” A generation may pass, or more than one, before this work will be fully completed; but it will advance with large strides.”

Another that is saying a gradual unfolding, but note this one has a vision about the rulers to which Baha'u'llah has said He has seized all power from them;

Henry Folbigg (1869) wrote, "It is here predicted that after the destruction of the papal beast, “the rest of the beasts,” by which I understand the Pagan, Mahometan, Hindoo, Chinese, and other empires, “ will have their dominion taken away,” that is, they will gradually lose their dominion, perhaps be conquered and lose their heathen rulers— “ but their lives ”—the existence of various corrupt "and unchristian principles, “ will be prolonged for a season and a time,” which, if intended to be taken in the usual prophetic and symbolic sense would indicate a period of 450 years. This would extend far into the Millennium, and therefore although we may and should look for, and hasten the coming of great and beneficial changes, we are not to expect universal civilization in a day, nor the conversion of the world in a year—but rather the gradual yet more rapid spread of the gospel and the spiritual reign of Christ and his saints—of Christ and his Church for 1,000 years"

Baha'u'llah wrote to the Pope and the Catholic Church lost its power in the Mid 1800's, that history is available.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The same reason that Jews downplayed and rejected the claims of Christianity.

I'm talking specifically about the date and time predictions in Daniel. If we know the length of time and when to start counting the years, and if that time ends at 1844, what do Jews and Christians tell you, the Baha'is, what happened on that date?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm talking specifically about the date and time predictions in Daniel. If we know the length of time and when to start counting the years, and if that time ends at 1844, what do Jews and Christians tell you, the Baha'is, what happened on that date?

Also we must consider the same starting point of BC 457 using the 70 and 69 week Prophecies also proved Christ. The 2300 year prophecy shows the declaration of the Bab.

Thus you could ask the same question of Christains only, what do the Jews tell the Christains about what happened on that date?

Thus what point will be made if one shows that Jews and Christains see no importance in AD1844, as the Jews also see no importance in Jesus Message, given as the Christ. Both time calculated by Daniels Prophecy.

We can add Muhammad in there as well.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Also we must consider the same starting point of BC 457 using the 70 and 69 week Prophecies also proved Christ. The 2300 year prophecy shows the declaration of the Bab.

Thus you could ask the same question of Christains only, what do the Jews tell the Christains about what happened on that date?

Thus what point will be made if one shows that Jews and Christains see no importance in AD1844, as the Jews also see no importance in Jesus Message, given as the Christ. Both time calculated by Daniels Prophecy.

We can add Muhammad in there as well.

Regards Tony

Hello? If you are correct in the amount of time that transpires and the starting point, and that comes to 1844, what do Jews and Christians tell you? Do they use different starting points? Do they say that you are correct but that date is of no importance? Do they say those prophecies are important, and do point to the time of the return, but the Baha'is and William Miller didn't add things up correctly? If Baha'is say it is true, that the Christ was to return in 1844, then what are Christians telling you? How are they downplaying it? That's all I'm asking. You don't have to play the Baha'i rope a dope game.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hello? If you are correct in the amount of time that transpires and the starting point, and that comes to 1844, what do Jews and Christians tell you? Do they use different starting points? Do they say that you are correct but that date is of no importance? Do they say those prophecies are important, and do point to the time of the return, but the Baha'is and William Miller didn't add things up correctly? If Baha'is say it is true, that the Christ was to return in 1844, then what are Christians telling you? How are they downplaying it? That's all I'm asking. You don't have to play the Baha'i rope a dope game.

Hello CG. You have seen the responses on RF and I see that is but a reflection of the larger picture.

All I can say is, I have no doubt it is true.

Regards Tony

 

[Muffled]

Note bold: There are no original documents. The closest we have are the Dead Sea scrolls for part of the OT, these were found recently. There is no evidence that the Protestants had any more documents than anyone else had at the time.

I believe by original I mean the earliest documents that have been found.

 

[Muffled]

As with Jews, Christians and Muslims also claiming things are true that others do not believe will not convince, nor help them if they reject them.

I believe that is true but you will always get the truth from me.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe that is true but you will always get the truth from me.

Sounds like a used car salesman.