Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

[John D. Brey]

At the end of the day are we not all dependant on God's Grace whether we are Muslim or Christian? I think what you are alluding to is the different concepts of salvation between Christianity and Islam. That is certainly an important difference between the two religions. While its possible that one religion is right (Christianity) and the other (Islam) wrong as you suggest its also possible that both are right and both are wrong, is it not?

. . . While I would agree that beyond the constructs of small-minded orthodoxy, all religious concepts could serve the same God, knowing that, or believing that, would, in my opinion, require those who believe that to not just bask in the light of that truth or possibility, but actually work to show that, and how, it's possible.

To whom much is given, much is expected. If a person truly knows God in his hyper-orthodox nakedness, if they've truly had intercourse with him, with the clothing of orthodoxy strewn throughout the holy place of that encounter, then they should be pregnant with the result of that engagement such that they should share the fruit of the branch growing from between their bosom with all who can swallow it. . . More, they should spare no cost, in time or effort, suffering, whatever it takes, to season the fruit of that Tree of Life to make it acceptable to the various palate of the heathen.

How could the emblem below add something from the third of the three People of the Book? What seasoning, or fruit, from Islam, could be grafted onto the Tree of Life?



John

ד׳

חכמה עצה דעת רוחויראתד׳וגבורהובינה
רוח
רוח
רוח
ח
ו
ט
ר

ג ז ע​

 

[Samantha Rinne]

At the end of the day are we not all dependant on God's Grace whether we are Muslim or Christian? I think what you are alluding to is the different concepts of salvation between Christianity and Islam. That is certainly an important difference between the two religions. While its possible that one religion is right (Christianity) and the other (Islam) wrong as you suggest its also possible that both are right and both are wrong, is it not?

No. And no.

First off, Muslims have essentially a different notion of sin and grace, essentially saying forgiveness is based on a combination of Allah's grace (whatever that is, since he sentences people to hell just for staying home) and the Muslim's works. In other words, it's largely works-based, but Allah can still send you to hell simply for doing everything else besides waging jihad. This is not at all similar to the mostly grace-based faith that became the bedrock of innocent until proven guilty legal justice, where God forgives sins. This is a totally alien concept to Islam.

Logically, both cannot be right. Here's why.

1. Islam says that Christianity and Judaism are people of the book.
2. Yet Christians believe Jesus is God, but the Quran is so opposed to this belief that it condemns Jesus worshipers to Hell.
3. They also reject the Trinity, and most of the core teachings of the Bible.
   
4. Therefore, Islam is not consistent with the Bible. Therefore, since both have virtually opposite beliefs, they can't be both right, and the only way they can both be wrong is if there is a third belief that opposes both.

 

[sojourner]

This question is mostly for adherents of Abrahamic Faiths though I have left it open for all to answer and put it in the general debate section to enable us to discuss freely and frankly.

I would consider the answer to be yes, no, or maybe

'Yes' if we are prepared to see God as transcendant above man made concepts. I see God is an unknowable essence. His essence can never be understood by man, anymore than the fetus can conceive of life outside the womb. God wants us to know and worship Him, so He reveals Himself through the likes of Christ and Muhammad. Man listens, thinks he's understood, then creates a theology he sincerely believes is founded on the words God has revealed, but in reality his comprehension is veiled by his vain imaginations.

'No' if we believe that scholars and religious leaders of each religion have faithfully contructed the best theology to represent the true spirit and intent of their founder. If that were true then it would be impossible for the contradictions within Islam and Christianity to be resolved. Either one or the other or both would be false.

I lean strongly towards yes. There is just One God and He has revealed Himself through both Jesus and Muhammad.

Questions, comments, discussion and debate as you will.

There is another possible answer: why would reconciliation be either necessary or desirable?

 

[Dawnofhope]

There is another possible answer: why would reconciliation be either necessary or desirable?

Because we share our humanity and the earth. Religion can be a major contributor to misunderstanding and conflict.

I'm not suggesting the two religions merge btw. That would not be possible. I think individual adherents of both religions can make much more effort to better understand each other.

 

[Dawnofhope]

First off, Muslims have essentially a different notion of sin and grace, essentially saying forgiveness is based on a combination of Allah's grace (whatever that is, since he sentences people to hell just for staying home) and the Muslim's works. In other words, it's largely works-based, but Allah can still send you to hell simply for doing everything else besides waging jihad. This is not at all similar to the mostly grace-based faith that became the bedrock of innocent until proven guilty legal justice, where God forgives sins. This is a totally alien concept to Islam.

The existence of God is not dependant on how we see Him. Just because a Christain or a Muslim views God a particular way does not mean that God is that way.

It is often easier for an adherent of one Faith to see the contradictions inherent in other's faith. This is especially the case with Christians and Muslims who each view their message from God as the most recent and correct. They then judge the other based on the standards of their own faith.

At least you are acknowledging that Islam does present a forgiving God. Son everses that establish this:

“And whoever does evil or wrongs himself but afterwards seeks God's forgiveness, he will find God Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Quran 4:10)

“And O my people! Ask forgiveness of your Lord and then repent to Him, He will send you (from the sky) abundant rain, and add strength to your strength, so do not turn away as criminals, disbelievers in the Oneness of God.” (Quran 11:52)

“Say: ‘O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of God, indeed God forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.’” (Quran 39:53)

Asking God for forgiveness of sins sounds very much like Christianity don't you think?

In regards this belief that Christianity is Faith based, not works, there is a strong case to be made that both Islam and Christianity rely on both Faith and Works. This can be demonstrated with reference to the sacred texts and history of both religions.

Jihad for the most part is about overcoming the negative aspects of ourselves, not terrorism.

Logically, both cannot be right. Here's why.

1. Islam says that Christianity and Judaism are people of the book.
2. Yet Christians believe Jesus is God, but the Quran is so opposed to this belief that it condemns Jesus worshipers to Hell.
3. They also reject the Trinity, and most of the core teachings of the Bible.
   
4. Therefore, Islam is not consistent with the Bible. Therefore, since both have virtually opposite beliefs, they can't be both right, and the only way they can both be wrong is if there is a third belief that opposes both.

The are verses in the bible that strongly suggest that Jesus is not God incarnate and nowhere in the bible is the word trinity mentioned. It is a man made doctrinal invention through the councils of Nicea during the 4th century. The problem therefore appears not to be the bible but the way it has been interpreted.

 

[Dawnofhope]

. . . While I would agree that beyond the constructs of small-minded orthodoxy, all religious concepts could serve the same God, knowing that, or believing that, would, in my opinion, require those who believe that to not just bask in the light of that truth or possibility, but actually work to show that, and how, it's possible.

To whom much is given, much is expected. If a person truly knows God in his hyper-orthodox nakedness, if they've truly had intercourse with him, with the clothing of orthodoxy strewn throughout the holy place of that encounter, then they should be pregnant with the result of that engagement such that they should share the fruit of the branch growing from between their bosom with all who can swallow it. . . More, they should spare no cost, in time or effort, suffering, whatever it takes, to season the fruit of that Tree of Life to make it acceptable to the various palate of the heathen.

How could the emblem below add something from the third of the three People of the Book? What seasoning, or fruit, from Islam, could be grafted onto the Tree of Life?

The Quran.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So, you're a fan and follower of an "unknowable essence".

That is one Baha'i theological concept of God. There are others.

That's not for me to worry about. I'm not the one believing there can be reconciliation between religious groups. If you accept superficial aspects of reconciliation as amounting to reconciliation, OK. If you are talking about something more substantial, then you are the one who must decide what your goals are.

I'm stating that adherents of both religions through knowledge and study of the other's faith could find much more common ground than they initially thought.

There ya go. Who said anything about abolishing religion?

So what are you saying other than wanting to have a crack at theism?

 

[sojourner]

Because we share our humanity and the earth. Religion can be a major contributor to misunderstanding and conflict.

I'm not suggesting the two religions merge btw. That would not be possible. I think individual adherents of both religions can make much more effort to better understand each other.

Yes, it can. But reconciliation isn’t necessary to solve that issue.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, it can. But reconciliation isn’t necessary to solve that issue.

I’m not sure what your point is. Would you mind clarifying?

 

[sojourner]

I’m not sure what your point is. Would you mind clarifying?

Sure. We can (and should) learn that the whole is greater than just our perception. I don’t have to like other cultures in order to appreciate that they are as valid as my own. Reconciliation isn’t necessary. Diversity is, I think, the greater path.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Sure. We can (and should) learn that the whole is greater than just our perception. I don’t have to like other cultures in order to appreciate that they are as valid as my own. Reconciliation isn’t necessary. Diversity is, I think, the greater path.

I see. Acceptance and tolerance of others different from ourselves is an important first step. I believe we should love both our neighbours and enemies and see our enemies as friends. To achieve that we need to ‘like’ others and have some empathy towards them, not just tolerate them. Anyway thanks for responding.

 

[ecco]

I'm stating that adherents of both religions through knowledge and study of the other's faith could find much more common ground than they initially thought.

Like when Catholic Hitler used Protestant Martin Luther's writings to persuade Protestant and Catholic Germans to eliminate Jews.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Like when Catholic Hitler used Protestant Martin Luther's writings to persuade Protestant and Catholic Germans to eliminate Jews.

Anti-Semitism fuelled by Christianity culminating in Christian Germany's extermination of six million Jews along with others must be accounted as one of the darkest chapters in world history. .

 

[sojourner]

I see. Acceptance and tolerance of others different from ourselves is an important first step. I believe we should love both our neighbours and enemies and see our enemies as friends. To achieve that we need to ‘like’ others and have some empathy towards them, not just tolerate them. Anyway thanks for responding.

I think that’s where you and I differ. I don’t think one has to like someone in order to love and appreciate her or him.

 

[ecco]

Anti-Semitism fuelled by Christianity culminating in Christian Germany's extermination of six million Jews along with others must be accounted as one of the darkest chapters in world history. .

I was just an extension of what had been happening for thousands of years. Not a good sign for reconciliation, is it.

 

[Muffled]

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."

Mark 12:29

"As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up and knelt before Him. “Good Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18“Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied, “No one is good except God alone."

Mark 10: 17-18

Jesus was either Schizophrenic or was talking about a separate deity

Your conclusion is false because your premises are false.

I believe this is true and does not negate the Trinity. God is one in the Father, Son and Paraclete.

I believe the answer is that Jesus is good and therefore is God.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Your conclusion is false because your premises are false.

I believe this is true and does not negate the Trinity. God is one in the Father, Son and Paraclete.

I believe the answer is that Jesus is good and therefore is God.

That logic is like a Dr. Seuss book, but okay.

 

[Muffled]

Wow, at least you arranged for a highway to hell. You are a smart guy. At least you don't rot on the way up, to your destination. Safe journey bye bye.

Thank you. I believe there is no safety this side of eternal life but I believe I would rather be in the action than on the sidelines.

 

[Muffled]

That logic is like a Dr. Seuss book, but okay.

My logic course was fun and I like set theory which is part of it. I once drew the circles for the Trinity but I haven't done it recently on the computer.

 

[stvdv]

Thank you. I believe there is no safety this side of eternal life but I believe I would rather be in the action than on the sidelines.

Thank you. That sounds much friendlier.