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Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 17.5%
  • No

    Votes: 36 63.2%
  • Possibly

    Votes: 6 10.5%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 5 8.8%

  • Total voters
    57

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Thanks Frank,

It’s great to have your breadth of knowledge here on the forum.

Speaking of the Jews, it was quite a scrap on that Islam thread by Ellen. I was weighing up whether to roll up my sleeves and join in or just grab some popcorn and watch from a far lol

Seems to have calmed down now.:)

When America entered WWII the American German Bond (American Nazi Party) deteriorated and then disapeared. After the Nazi attrocities against the Jews came to light after WWII American attitudes change and anti-Semitism and anti-Jewish attitudes became a minority, but remain until today a significant minority.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Before I lean towards yes or no, a question: the Christian God knows everything, what does Allah claim to know?

Muslims believe there is One God (Allah) and Allah is the God who has sent all the prophets with special emphasis on Moses and Jesus through whom God revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Therefore Allah (God) is the All-Knowing.

"He is God; there is no god but He, He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God, there is no God but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (Quran 59:22-24)

"There is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His throne comprises the heavens and earth; the preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-High, the All-Glorious." (Quran 2:255)
 
Last edited:

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Muslims believe there is One God (Allah) and Allah is the God who has sent all the prophets with special emphasis on Moses and Jesus through whom God revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Therefore Allah (God) is the All-Knowing.

"He is God; there is no god but He, He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God, there is no God but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (Quran 59:22-24)

"There is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His throne comprises the heavens and earth; the preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-High, the All-Glorious." (Quran 2:255)

Your answer is better articulated than mine. :)
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Your answer is better articulated than mine. :)
Welcome back David. Have missed seeing you.:)

Your answer is succinct and cuts to the chase.

Having Muhammad’s words would have pretty much nailed it I thought.

Some Christians I’ve met have two gods! Your God and my god. It’s great to be reminded you don’t think like that. In fact I’m seeing a growing number of Christians want to overcome barriers that divide Muslims and Christians. That’s more exciting than anything I’ve got to say.:D
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Welcome back David. Have missed seeing you.:)

Your answer is succinct and cuts to the chase.

Having Muhammad’s words would have pretty much nailed it I thought.

Some Christians I’ve met have two gods! Your God and my god. It’s great to be reminded you don’t think like that. In fact I’m seeing a growing number of Christians want to overcome barriers that divide Muslims and Christians. That’s more exciting than anything I’ve got to say.:D

Good words Adrian.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
No, Jesus is not a schizophrenic who talks to himself. He prayed to his Father and said that whatever power and authority he had was given to him by his Father.
So, Jesus is not God. I wonder why so many Christians consider Jesus to be God.
Seek-and-Save-the-Lost-Jesus-is-Lord-Website-Pic.jpg
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
So, Jesus is not God. I wonder why so many Christians consider Jesus to be God.
Seek-and-Save-the-Lost-Jesus-is-Lord-Website-Pic.jpg

There is Prophecy saying beware of adding to the bible or advice about using private interpretation.

These are not considered applicable to a Christian or a Muslim, as they would not consider this has been done. Both side think the interpretations they have are correct.

Since records have begun, I would ask if any Prophet was ever accepted in the day they gave the Message. Why would we in this day be any different?

Regards Tony
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So, Jesus is not God. I wonder why so many Christians consider Jesus to be God.
Seek-and-Save-the-Lost-Jesus-is-Lord-Website-Pic.jpg
Questions like this are the reason that we really need an anthropology branch or history branch studying the history of religious ideas. I see 'Jesus/God' used interchangeably in prayer as an attempt to turn reformed Christianity into a form of Krishna worship. I do not know how long ago this started, although the idea of combining Christianity with Eastern religion became popular in some intellectual circles around the same time that the Theosophical Society was founded. The devotion that worshipers have for Krishna is so very personal. He is a 'Personal Lord and Savior' long before Jesus. Every time you hear "Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour." I think you are probably hearing Krishna style religion using terms borrowed from Christianity. Again, its not clear to me how this change came about or when, but it is a change. Many Christians today believe it is original Christianity, lost during the Catholic period and now reintroduced in modern times.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Questions like this are the reason that we really need an anthropology branch or history branch studying the history of religious ideas. I see 'Jesus/God' used interchangeably in prayer as an attempt to turn reformed Christianity into a form of Krishna worship. I do not know how long ago this started, although the idea of combining Christianity with Eastern religion became popular in some intellectual circles around the same time that the Theosophical Society was founded. The devotion that worshipers have for Krishna is so very personal. He is a 'Personal Lord and Savior' long before Jesus. Every time you hear "Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour." I think you are probably hearing Krishna style religion using terms borrowed from Christianity. Again, its not clear to me how this change came about or when, but it is a change. Many Christians today believe it is original Christianity, lost during the Catholic period and now reintroduced in modern times.

The way some Vaishnava view Krishna and Christians view Jesus is very similar. Krishna is seen as an incarnation of Vishnu/God as Jesus is literally God incarnate. I think it is an inevitable consequence of time how historic characters become somewhat mythologised. For Baha'is both Krishna and Jesus are manifestations of God, or spiritual incarnations. In that sense as we are all created in the image of God, the manifestations reflect most perfectly all the attributes of God. God also speaks through each. Its one way to resolve the Jesus is God/Jesus is not God dichotomy. No doubt you appreciate how the gospel of John contributes to the Jesus is God perspective with the logos (John 1:1-3).

My experience with @ecco is ardent antitheism but you may have a better conversation with him than I did.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
My experience with @ecco is ardent antitheism but you may have a better conversation with him than I did.

I'd look forward to a conversation between you and Brickjectivity. Both of you are believers. Both of you believe your views are the correct views. Atheists aren't the only ones who disagree with specific beliefs. All theists disagree with most of the beliefs of other theists.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I'd look forward to a conversation between you and Brickjectivity. Both of you are believers. Both of you believe your views are the correct views. Atheists aren't the only ones who disagree with specific beliefs. All theists disagree with most of the beliefs of other theists.
I doubt if you’ll find us arguing at all.

I have no problem with Christianity, nor atheism for that matter. I do have a problem with antitheism as I do with being anti anything that is of value including rational thought and science. It’s the “I’m right and you’re wrong” attitude that seeks to denigrate and tear down the values of others I object to.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I'd look forward to a conversation between you and Brickjectivity. Both of you are believers. Both of you believe your views are the correct views. Atheists aren't the only ones who disagree with specific beliefs. All theists disagree with most of the beliefs of other theists.
I doubt if you’ll find us arguing at all.
I doubt you'll find yourselves agreeing on the fundamentals of your religions.



I do have a problem with antitheism as I do with being anti anything that is of value including rational thought and science.

I don't think you find too many atheists who denigrate science or rational thought.

My disdain for religion is based on the history of the evils that have been perpetrated in the name of gods.

My disdain for religion is based on the disparagement of rational thought and science that have been and are perpetrated in the name of gods.

Do Bahais believe in evolution?
Do Bahais believe creationism should be taught in schools??


It’s the “I’m right and you’re wrong” attitude that seeks to denigrate and tear down the values of others I object to.

Are you suggesting that evolution and creationism are both right? Are you suggesting that evolution and creationism are both based on rational thought?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I doubt you'll find yourselves agreeing on the fundamentals of your religions.

We’re agreed on some. Others we won’t. Scientists and scholars agree and disagree all the time. If it’s done in the right spirit progress is made. If it’s done with prejudice and hate, it causes more heat than light.

I don't think you find too many atheists who denigrate science or rational thought.

People who disrespect learning, knowledge and justice come from all backgrounds including atheists.

My disdain for religion is based on the history of the evils that have been perpetrated in the name of gods.

Atheists and theists alike have to grapple with the darker side of human nature. Some philosophies that incorporate atheism have great caused harm.

My disdain for religion is based on the disparagement of rational thought and science that have been and are perpetrated in the name of gods.

Many of the great enlightenment thinkers were theists as with nobel prize winners in science. Religion and science are not mutually exclusive.

Do Bahais believe in evolution?
Do Bahais believe creationism should be taught in schools??

Most Baha’is believe in most of evolutionary theory as many Christians do. All Baha’is believe in a Creator God but reject most of the theories of YEC Christians as many Christians do.

Are you suggesting that evolution and creationism are both right? Are you suggesting that evolution and creationism are both based on rational thought?

Evolutionary theory based on science is right. The belief in a Creator God based on religion is a matter of both faith and reason. The two are complimentary, not contradictory.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I don't think you find too many atheists who denigrate science or rational thought.
People who disrespect learning, knowledge and justice come from all backgrounds including atheists.

Care to give some examples of atheists who disrespect learning, knowledge and justice


My disdain for religion is based on the history of the evils that have been perpetrated in the name of gods.

Atheists and theists alike have to grapple with the darker side of human nature. Some philosophies that incorporate atheism have great caused harm.
That's very clever wording. Transparent, but clever nonetheless. Would you care to define what you mean by "Some philosophies that incorporate atheism".


My disdain for religion is based on the disparagement of rational thought and science that have been and are perpetrated in the name of gods.

Many of the great enlightenment thinkers were theists as with nobel prize winners in science. Religion and science are not mutually exclusive.

Most people during the enlightenment and now are theists. That does not alter the fact that theists have not and do not disparage rational thought and science to the detriment of society. We need look no further than the anti-evolution movement and the ban on stem cell research..



Evolutionary theory based on science is right. The belief in a Creator God based on religion is a matter of both faith and reason. The two are complimentary, not contradictory.

They are contradictory when scripture is taken literally. They can only be reconciled if parts of scripture are taken as allegory. If "The True Word of God" can be interpreted as anyone sees fit, then what good is it?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Care to give some examples of atheists who disrespect learning, knowledge and justice

Some delinquents are atheists are they not?

That's very clever wording. Transparent, but clever nonetheless. Would you care to define what you mean by "Some philosophies that incorporate atheism".

Communism based on Marxism is an example.

Most people during the enlightenment and now are theists. That does not alter the fact that theists have not and do not disparage rational thought and science to the detriment of society. We need look no further than the anti-evolution movement and the ban on stem cell research..

I’m not part of the anti-evolution movement. It may be strong in the USA but it’s not in the country where I live. Evolutionary theory is freely taught in schools as it should be.

They are contradictory when scripture is taken literally. They can only be reconciled if parts of scripture are taken as allegory. If "The True Word of God" can be interpreted as anyone sees fit, then what good is it?

I see the stories in the first 9 chapters of genesis as allegorical and not to be taken literally. Mythology and story telling has an important role to play in religion. Problems arise when adherents are unable to distinguish historic fact from a religious narrative.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Care to give some examples of atheists who disrespect learning, knowledge and justice
Some delinquents are atheists are they not?
It seems you are grasping at straws.


That's very clever wording. Transparent, but clever nonetheless. Would you care to define what you mean by "Some philosophies that incorporate atheism".

Communism based on Marxism is an example.
Did Marx kill people "in the name of atheism"? Was the battle cry "Onward atheist soldiers"?


Most people during the enlightenment and now are theists. That does not alter the fact that theists have not and do not disparage rational thought and science to the detriment of society. We need look no further than the anti-evolution movement and the ban on stem cell research..

I’m not part of the anti-evolution movement. It may be strong in the USA but it’s not in the country where I live. Evolutionary theory is freely taught in schools as it should be.
We weren't discussing your personal views or the generalized views prevalent in your country. We were discussing theists who "disparage rational thought and science to the detriment of society"

They are contradictory when scripture is taken literally. They can only be reconciled if parts of scripture are taken as allegory. If "The True Word of God" can be interpreted as anyone sees fit, then what good is it?

I see the stories in the first 9 chapters of genesis as allegorical and not to be taken literally. Mythology and story telling has an important role to play in religion. Problems arise when adherents are unable to distinguish historic fact from a religious narrative.

You are saying that people who read the Bible literally are wrong. If I'm not mistaken you take Bahá'u'lláh's writings and teaching as absolute truth. Do you see the problem here? If "The True Word of God", whether written by Moses or by Bahá'u'lláh can be interpreted as anyone sees fit, then what good is it?

You disbelieve the Moses stories. Most Christians disbelieve the Bahá'u'lláh versions. But everyone believes they are right. As Marx said "religion is the opiate of the masses".
 
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