Buying God

[Jedster]

Tithing is just a way of making people feel guilty if they don't pay, a church should just be a simple meeting place and that's it.

POI The Hebrew word for church comes from the root כֶּנֶס, which means gathering

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Money is necessary.
We pay for all sorts of things and think nothing of it.
When i can't get to the local spring, i pay for my water.

This entire idea needs amended... money is only necessary in today's day and age, and only if you want to participate in modern society, buying products, buying a plot of land (that you then get to pretend you "own"), paying government and officials for "license" to participate in certain activities (driving, building,etc.). Money has no intrinsic or objective value, nor is it a needful thing for a human being to survive. To live according to societies expectations? Yes, it becomes more of a necessity. Outside of that context? Money is literally garbage.

 

[David T]

Atheists have wanted this removed from money!!! It should be religion that is outraged interestingly enough.

 

[Akivah]

The first time I heard of "charging to practice a religion" was when I went to a Santera and she was telling me a bit about the Lukumi faith. You pay for the animals, the clothing, sacred jewelry statues, and statues, etc. People pay over $1,000 towards being a Santera/o and it is a life long devotion. Nothing overnight.

{snip}

I know the practical side of it; but, how does the money play in when needing it for religious or spiritual purposes?

In Judaism, G-d commanded it. The Levites (who administered the temple) weren't allocated a share of the promised land. Instead, all the other tribes tithe to the Levites to provide for their upkeep.

In current times, synagogues have material needs to carry out their functions. Members are expected to pay dues to support it. However, no one is ever charged to attend services. On Shabbat, it is actually forbidden to handle money or do business.

 

[dianaiad]

Tithing is just a way of making people feel guilty if they don't pay, a church should just be a simple meeting place and that's it.

...and how would you pay for that meeting place? the land it's on, for instance, or the building itself? I mean, you COULD just squat on some land somewhere, but isn't that taking the use of the land away from the folks who own it? How would you obtain the building materials for your 'meeting place?' How would you pay for the lights or water?

Many Christian churches would also ask how the pastor/preacher would support him/herself, if his/her life was completely devoted to the church? Where would you get the materials to donate to those your group actually attempts to help? Homeless shelters, for instance, require, oh....shelters and food and clothing and people to run it.

Suppose we dial everything back to the basics: believers meet in the homes of other believers, taking turns. Nobody gets paid for running things. You STILL have the problem of finding the necessities for the 'helping others' you require, not to mention the stuff you need for religious ceremonies, like wafers and wine (or simply bread and water) for communion.

GOD doesn't need any money. GOD doesn't need donations. However, God has told US, many of us believe, to take care of each other, teach each other and comfort each other, and y'know what? That often requires physical things like food and shelter, and food and shelter require MONEY. Not for God, but for each other, so that we can do that.

So...tithing? In Malachi we are told to 'prove me" about that...if one pays tithing, the 'windows of heaven' will be open and there will be uncounted and uncountable blessings as a result. Not just spiritual, but physical ones.

Consider it: if one pays tithing, the money goes (well, it's supposed to go, anyway) to the development of the church, making things better, providing funds to run the organization and pay its debts. How is that not a good thing? Many churches use tithing for charity towards others...disaster relief, etc. How is THAT not a good thing?

Now my own system very officially tithes, and that tithing goes only to maintaining the church so that we don't owe any mortgages on any of our meeting houses, etc., as a result, we don't charge wedding couples for any service; not venues, not officiants, not reception hall rentals, nothing. You want to reserve the church recreation hall for something? Fine...if it's not scheduled for something else, come ahead. Our tithing goes to support missionaries, to publishing our teaching materials, to keeping the lights on...

Would you tell me how we would be able to do any of that if nobody contributed any money?

I'll tell YOU what would happen: There is an octagonal building on one of my city streets that has been boarded up for over twenty years now. It just sits there, in the middle of a desert vacant lot. It was to have been a church building, but they ran out of money.

Because nobody donated any.

So nobody meets there. It's one of the saddest buildings I have ever seen.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

View attachment 16145

Atheists have wanted this removed from money!!! It should be religion that is outraged interestingly enough.

Well, some atheist have a point in wanting it removed. Though, I never hear new about atheists issues and concerns outside the internet. I don't know where ya'll get this information. Anyway, if we have so many people from different countries coming to the US, and we are saying to Muslims "you can have your prayer space" in our school but tell Catholics they cannot, there's a problem. Having "In god we trust" isn't a big issue. Though, if we are culture and religous neutral rather than bias, then I'd think anything referring to god mix with the law and government should be exnayed.

I mean, you have government meetings where priests or pastors first ask for each person to pray. Do we force people (by guilt or embarrassment etc) to need to bow their heads even though they are Muslim, Hindu, or Atheist?

When does the "in god we trust" become overbearing to someone else's belief, religion, or worldview? What is the limit?

 

[David T]

Well, some atheist have a point in wanting it removed. Though, I never hear new about atheists issues and concerns outside the internet. I don't know where ya'll get this information. Anyway, if we have so many people from different countries coming to the US, and we are saying to Muslims "you can have your prayer space" in our school but tell Catholics they cannot, there's a problem. Having "In god we trust" isn't a big issue. Though, if we are culture and religous neutral rather than bias, then I'd think anything referring to god mix with the law and government should be exnayed.

I mean, you have government meetings where priests or pastors first ask for each person to pray. Do we force people (by guilt or embarrassment etc) to need to bow their heads even though they are Muslim, Hindu, or Atheist?

When does the "in god we trust" become overbearing to someone else's belief, religion, or worldview? What is the limit?

It's a marketing statement created by a private enterprise called the federal reserve. Printing words like God on money is a curious curious nut****ery.

 

[soulsurvivor]

The first time I heard of "charging to practice a religion" was when I went to a Santera and she was telling me a bit about the Lukumi faith. You pay for the animals, the clothing, sacred jewelry statues, and statues, etc. People pay over $1,000 towards being a Santera/o and it is a life long devotion. Nothing overnight.

Nichiren Buddhism, the same thing. Except for the sacrament was I think $20.00, the Butsadan a little more, and the candles, flowers, etc. Less than a thousand.

All the people I spoke with said something like this, "how do you expect everything to be paid for. Money has to be given to do what we do" type of thing.

Fare enough.

In a business, maybe a service exchange, and things like that, I'd expect money for service...

but for "god"???

I told one Catholic who asked why I didn't give tithes, and I told her "that's like paying Jesus to save me."

I know the realistic side of needing money for objects; and, on the religious side, how does money fit in to your spiritual belief besides just getting the items you need for practice?

Is your religion or practice based on the money that goes into the sacraments (things held sacred) since without the money, you wouldn't have the objects of worship?
​

I always wanted to ask this. When I gave my $20 to get the Gohonzon and Gongyo book, I felt I was giving up the core of my practice by the exchange of money. (I was paying to be a Bodhisattva). On top of that, when Nichiren Shonin was imprisoned, people gave him food, clothing, etc not money.

I know the practical side of it; but, how does the money play in when needing it for religious or spiritual purposes?​

This is not that different from tithing requirements that many religions have. In fact a 10% (of income) tithe is a lot more than this. The Muslim zakat is 2.5% (includes savings and wealth). Of course the tithing is not enforced and supposed to be given to any charity, but it is often the church or mosque which is the beneficiary.

 

[psychoslice]

POI The Hebrew word for church comes from the root כֶּנֶס, which means gathering

Yes a simple gathering is sufficient, and whoever should be able to stand yup and share their own thoughts and testimonies, K>I>S>S.

 

[psychoslice]

...and how would you pay for that meeting place? the land it's on, for instance, or the building itself? I mean, you COULD just squat on some land somewhere, but isn't that taking the use of the land away from the folks who own it? How would you obtain the building materials for your 'meeting place?' How would you pay for the lights or water?

Many Christian churches would also ask how the pastor/preacher would support him/herself, if his/her life was completely devoted to the church? Where would you get the materials to donate to those your group actually attempts to help? Homeless shelters, for instance, require, oh....shelters and food and clothing and people to run it.

Suppose we dial everything back to the basics: believers meet in the homes of other believers, taking turns. Nobody gets paid for running things. You STILL have the problem of finding the necessities for the 'helping others' you require, not to mention the stuff you need for religious ceremonies, like wafers and wine (or simply bread and water) for communion.

GOD doesn't need any money. GOD doesn't need donations. However, God has told US, many of us believe, to take care of each other, teach each other and comfort each other, and y'know what? That often requires physical things like food and shelter, and food and shelter require MONEY. Not for God, but for each other, so that we can do that.

So...tithing? In Malachi we are told to 'prove me" about that...if one pays tithing, the 'windows of heaven' will be open and there will be uncounted and uncountable blessings as a result. Not just spiritual, but physical ones.

Consider it: if one pays tithing, the money goes (well, it's supposed to go, anyway) to the development of the church, making things better, providing funds to run the organization and pay its debts. How is that not a good thing? Many churches use tithing for charity towards others...disaster relief, etc. How is THAT not a good thing?

Now my own system very officially tithes, and that tithing goes only to maintaining the church so that we don't owe any mortgages on any of our meeting houses, etc., as a result, we don't charge wedding couples for any service; not venues, not officiants, not reception hall rentals, nothing. You want to reserve the church recreation hall for something? Fine...if it's not scheduled for something else, come ahead. Our tithing goes to support missionaries, to publishing our teaching materials, to keeping the lights on...

Would you tell me how we would be able to do any of that if nobody contributed any money?

I'll tell YOU what would happen: There is an octagonal building on one of my city streets that has been boarded up for over twenty years now. It just sits there, in the middle of a desert vacant lot. It was to have been a church building, but they ran out of money.

Because nobody donated any.

So nobody meets there. It's one of the saddest buildings I have ever seen.

I'm not talking about donating to the church, I am talking about tithing, when you are told that you should tithe to make god happy. I personally don't think you need a pastor, we all should be able to stand and tell our own experiences to each other, knowing God ids a personal thing, its experience within each one of us, but yes most have been conditioned over many years to keep it the way it is, sad really.

 

[dianaiad]

I'm not talking about donating to the church, I am talking about tithing, when you are told that you should tithe to make god happy. I personally don't think you need a pastor, we all should be able to stand and tell our own experiences to each other, knowing God ids a personal thing, its experience within each one of us, but yes most have been conditioned over many years to keep it the way it is, sad really.

That is certainly your right and your own religion, so that your charitable contributions probably go to some other place (trouble is, most of those 'other places' are also sponsored by religion, from the Red Cross to Salvation Army to....whatever.)

For US, tithing isn't about the money, actually. It's about promises. Keeping them, that is. Oh, the money is extremely useful, but....it's mostly about the promise. If you promise to do something, you should do it. Not keeping your promise is a character flaw.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That is certainly your right and your own religion, so that your charitable contributions probably go to some other place (trouble is, most of those 'other places' are also sponsored by religion, from the Red Cross to Salvation Army to....whatever.)

For US, tithing isn't about the money, actually. It's about promises. Keeping them, that is. Oh, the money is extremely useful, but....it's mostly about the promise. If you promise to do something, you should do it. Not keeping your promise is a character flaw.

Interesting. I never heard of money/tithing related to promise. Can you expand on that one?

 

[dianaiad]

Interesting. I never heard of money/tithing related to promise. Can you expand on that one?

When we are baptized, we make certain covenants and promises. Tithing is one of 'em. Avoiding coffee, tea, alcohol and tobacco are others...and there are others.

So it's about a promise, at least for us, in addition to the fact that we think that it's a good idea and scriptural.

There are other religions that have tithing as a 'good idea,' but that aren't considered to be, er....serious. We are serious.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When we are baptized, we make certain covenants and promises. Tithing is one of 'em. Avoiding coffee, tea, alcohol and tobacco are others...and there are others.

So it's about a promise, at least for us, in addition to the fact that we think that it's a good idea and scriptural.

There are other religions that have tithing as a 'good idea,' but that aren't considered to be, er....serious. We are serious.

Other than the "we are serious and they are aren't considered to be ... er... serious", I understand what you're saying. I went into the Church but never thought of it as a promise. If I had, I would have rethought about it and never became Christian.

 

[psychoslice]

That is certainly your right and your own religion, so that your charitable contributions probably go to some other place (trouble is, most of those 'other places' are also sponsored by religion, from the Red Cross to Salvation Army to....whatever.)

For US, tithing isn't about the money, actually. It's about promises. Keeping them, that is. Oh, the money is extremely useful, but....it's mostly about the promise. If you promise to do something, you should do it. Not keeping your promise is a character flaw.

Na, that's just your excuse.

 

[dianaiad]

Na, that's just your excuse.

You have just succeeded in confusing me.

I need an excuse to keep a promise? To tithe?

????????

From where I sit, the people handing out the excuses are those who claim, on one hand, that they are "Christian" and absolutely believe in the Bible, but who come up with all the reasons why tithing is not required/necessary/a good idea.

Ah, well. What do I know? I'm too old to worry about what others think of me, and so I'm perfectly willing to go

wait.

what?

 

[psychoslice]

You have just succeeded in confusing me.

I need an excuse to keep a promise? To tithe?

????????

From where I sit, the people handing out the excuses are those who claim, on one hand, that they are "Christian" and absolutely believe in the Bible, but who come up with all the reasons why tithing is not required/necessary/a good idea.

Ah, well. What do I know? I'm too old to worry about what others think of me, and so I'm perfectly willing to go

wait.

what?

Tithing means nothing, its just another way of taking from the people who fall for these lies of hungry so called priest.

 

[dianaiad]

Tithing means nothing, its just another way of taking from the people who fall for these lies of hungry so called priest.

OK, so don't tithe.

However, if I find a priest who is hungry, I'll probably feed him. Just because.

............................that's not where my tithing goes, mind you. I'm just sayin'

I fail, however, to see how MY tithing affects you any.

 

[psychoslice]

OK, so don't tithe.

However, if I find a priest who is hungry, I'll probably feed him. Just because.

............................that's not where my tithing goes, mind you. I'm just sayin'

I fail, however, to see how MY tithing affects you any.

I don't care about your tithing, do what you need to do, but don't tell people that they should tithe, in this day and age its bloody hard for people to give ten percent of their wages, and they shouldn't be pressured into such stupid things.

 

[Jedster]

Yes a simple gathering is sufficient, and whoever should be able to stand yup and share their own thoughts and testimonies, K>I>S>S.

Yes..and do a little business on the side or get some good horse racing tips