Buying God

[psychoslice]

Yes..and do a little business on the side or get some good horse racing tips

Now your being silly.

 

[Jedster]

Now your being silly.

Of course, who would ever think of such things....

 

[psychoslice]

Of course, who would ever think of such things....

You of course lol.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Tithing means nothing, its just another way of taking from the people who fall for these lies of hungry so called priest.

Tithing is a donation and charity. I can tithe my clothing to the homeless shelter near me. No different tha a religious community. Charity has NO reservations. I shouldn matter who, what, why, or how. The fact that you are Giving is in and of itself a tithe.

I dont agree with being "required" to tithe as in Nichiren Buddhism but I wasnt required in Catholicism. They wanted me to give in charity. We gave by visiting others, supporting them, tithing our clothes, and time.

Tithing isnt bad. What Im off about it money. Doesnt matter if it goes to my uncle phil or mother joe ann, to a mosque, temple, or church. I just feel money shouldnt be part of a religion necessity to Worship.

Religion (how you define it) has nothing to do with it

 

[dianaiad]

I don't care about your tithing, do what you need to do, but don't tell people that they should tithe, in this day and age its bloody hard for people to give ten percent of their wages, and they shouldn't be pressured into such stupid things.

I was not aware that I was telling anybody that they should do anything, psychoslice. I was explaining why *I* tithe, why others might tithe, and what it's used for, as a general rule, and why the whole concept of donating money to one's belief system isn't a Bad Thing.

If that is pressuring people into doing a 'stupid thing,' then isn't your opinion of the whole idea, and characterization of it AS a 'stupid thing' pressuring people into NOT tithing? What's the difference?

I have found (mostly as a mother who has raised five teenagers) that such explanations are not considered 'pressure,' usually, unless one has an internal niggle that agrees with the explainer. This leads to feelings of guilt, which lead to feelings of resentment; how DARE you explain that doing something I don't want to do is a Good Thing, when I don't WANT to do it?

psychoslice, any internal conflict you might be experiencing about this is not my fault. Really.

If you don't want to tithe, and you honestly don't feel that it's a good thing for you to tithe, then.....don't tithe. No pressure here. You didn't promise to do so (I don't think you did, anyway) and your honest beliefs about the human condition don't require any such thing. So....why does any hint that tithing (or contributing to one's church/belief system) feel like 'pressure' to you?

 

[dianaiad]

Tithing is a donation and charity. I can tithe my clothing to the homeless shelter near me. No different tha a religious community. Charity has NO reservations. I shouldn matter who, what, why, or how. The fact that you are Giving is in and of itself a tithe.

I dont agree with being "required" to tithe as in Nichiren Buddhism but I wasnt required in Catholicism. They wanted me to give in charity. We gave by visiting others, supporting them, tithing our clothes, and time.

Tithing isnt bad. What Im off about it money. Doesnt matter if it goes to my uncle phil or mother joe ann, to a mosque, temple, or church. I just feel money shouldnt be part of a religion necessity to Worship.

Religion (how you define it) has nothing to do with it

Well, I don't know about most religions, since I am concerned mostly with Christianity and from there my own subset of that, but since I AM concerned with Christianity, there is this bible verse that explains things a bit:

James 1:27King James Version (KJV)

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Please note: while 'keeping oneself unspotted from the world' is in there....that is, personal 'goodness,' whatever that means, FIRST comes charity; visiting 'the fatherless and widows in their affliction."

Whether it is time or goods, you are giving something....and I don't get this angst about money! Money is just the mutually agreed upon substitute for time and goods, so that one can trade one sort of thing for another: my time is worth this much so that I can trade it for your goods. Money is just barter writ large, and giving money to charity is saying 'here, use this to trade for whatever it is you need," instead of "here's my old sweater with the hole in it, my microwave with the worn out 'add a minute' button, the tread mill I used five times and the odd hour I can fit in between golf games," one hands over something that charity can REALLY use.

Of course, I do think that ones TIME is more valuable...for both the charity and for the giver...than goods or money, but that's just me.

 

[viole]

Tithing is just a way of making people feel guilty if they don't pay, a church should just be a simple meeting place and that's it.

Well, maybe people are aware that prayers are not sufficient, and if they do not pay, a piece of roof of that meeting place might fall on their heads.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Vinayaka]

I was not aware that I was telling anybody that they should do anything, psychoslice. I was explaining why *I* tithe, why others might tithe, and what it's used for, as a general rule, and why the whole concept of donating money to one's belief system isn't a Bad Thing.

I've voluntarily taken a tithing (time and money) tithe as well. For the life of me, I cannot understand how simply sharing one's beliefs and practices in a discussion should be considered as pressuring some other person. (In a different belief system no less) I'm having a cup of coffee as I write this. Does that mean I'm trying to convince everyone else to have a cup too? Hardly.

 

[psychoslice]

Tithing is a donation and charity. I can tithe my clothing to the homeless shelter near me. No different tha a religious community. Charity has NO reservations. I shouldn matter who, what, why, or how. The fact that you are Giving is in and of itself a tithe.

I dont agree with being "required" to tithe as in Nichiren Buddhism but I wasnt required in Catholicism. They wanted me to give in charity. We gave by visiting others, supporting them, tithing our clothes, and time.

Tithing isnt bad. What Im off about it money. Doesnt matter if it goes to my uncle phil or mother joe ann, to a mosque, temple, or church. I just feel money shouldnt be part of a religion necessity to Worship.

Religion (how you define it) has nothing to do with it

No I didn't say it was bad, I said it should not be required to please god, it should be a personal choice.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No I didn't say it was bad, I said it should not be required to please god, it should be a personal choice.

All the religions I know of say it's not a requirement. When they say that, it means that tithing goes towards material things. Puja, Mass, Gongyo, etc participation that's free. What I don't like is the coercion and peer pressure to tithe. Has nothing to do with the religion. Just, well, some of the people......

 

[psychoslice]

I was not aware that I was telling anybody that they should do anything, psychoslice. I was explaining why *I* tithe, why others might tithe, and what it's used for, as a general rule, and why the whole concept of donating money to one's belief system isn't a Bad Thing.

If that is pressuring people into doing a 'stupid thing,' then isn't your opinion of the whole idea, and characterization of it AS a 'stupid thing' pressuring people into NOT tithing? What's the difference?

I have found (mostly as a mother who has raised five teenagers) that such explanations are not considered 'pressure,' usually, unless one has an internal niggle that agrees with the explainer. This leads to feelings of guilt, which lead to feelings of resentment; how DARE you explain that doing something I don't want to do is a Good Thing, when I don't WANT to do it?

psychoslice, any internal conflict you might be experiencing about this is not my fault. Really.

If you don't want to tithe, and you honestly don't feel that it's a good thing for you to tithe, then.....don't tithe. No pressure here. You didn't promise to do so (I don't think you did, anyway) and your honest beliefs about the human condition don't require any such thing. So....why does any hint that tithing (or contributing to one's church/belief system) feel like 'pressure' to you?

I am simply saying that you don't have to tithe to please god, of course you can tithe if you feel you must, but it wont make any difference between you and God, got it ?.

 

[psychoslice]

All the religions I know of say it's not a requirement. When they say that, it means that tithing goes towards material things. Puja, Mass, Gongyo, etc participation that's free. What I don't like is the coercion and peer pressure to tithe. Has nothing to do with the religion. Just, well, some of the people......

That's it, tithing has nothing to do with your walk with God, give when you feel its right to give.

 

[dianaiad]

I've voluntarily taken a tithing (time and money) tithe as well. For the life of me, I cannot understand how simply sharing one's beliefs and practices in a discussion should be considered as pressuring some other person. (In a different belief system no less) I'm having a cup of coffee as I write this. Does that mean I'm trying to convince everyone else to have a cup too? Hardly.

Great example, Vinayaka....since drinking coffee is actually 'against my religion." (grin) Y'know what? I don't feel one bit of pressure to run to Starbucks and lay out bunches of bucks for a venti, half-whole milk, one quarter 1%, one quarter non-fat, extra hot, split quad shots (1 1/2 shots decaf, 2 1/2 shots regular), no foam latte, with whip, 2 packets of splenda, 1 sugar in the raw, a touch of vanilla syrup and 3 short sprinkles of cinnamon.

Wait. Was there any actual coffee in there?

 

[Vinayaka]

Great example, Vinayaka....since drinking coffee is actually 'against my religion."

Yeah, I knew that, and that's why it was the simple example used. But you could always go out for 'coffee' when it means the break associated with coffee, but not necessarily having coffee. Lots of people take coffee breaks without having coffee.

If I had more money, I'd be giving more money. In retirement (I'm retired) the time tithe is crazy easy.

 

[dianaiad]

I am simply saying that you don't have to tithe to please god, of course you can tithe if you feel you must, but it wont make any difference between you and God, got it ?.

Well, I'm not all that certain of that one. Depends on circumstances, I suppose.

For instance, if you made a personal covenant with God to tithe....and broke your half of that covenant by refusing to do so, then it probably makes a pretty big difference.

As well, if the only charity you 'do' involves tithing, and you don't tithe or contribute in any other way to helping others, it might make a difference because, er, you aren't helping anybody.

Tithing, as I have mentioned before, isn't about the money. God certainly doesn't need the profit...but those He has asked us to help and comfort DO need it. The trick is to find out who, among all the myriad begging recipients, will do the most good with your contributions.

Tithing (and every other contribution to religion, whether it is time, goods or money) is about fellowship and helping other humans, NOT about pleasing God...except inasmuch as you think He has asked us to help each other.

got it?

 

[dianaiad]

Yeah, I knew that, and that's why it was the simple example used. But you could always go out for 'coffee' when it means the break associated with coffee, but not necessarily having coffee. Lots of people take coffee breaks without having coffee.

If I had more money, I'd be giving more money. In retirement (I'm retired) the time tithe is crazy easy.

"Time tithe" is also good, and in many ways far more valuable for everybody concerned. IMO, of course.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is nothing quite so heart-warming as giving, or watching someone give. I'll tell a story. Our (Hindu) temple was about a month away from its grand opening, and the floor tile was yet to be installed, as it would involve debt. So the board was discussing whether or not to borrow it. An elder but regular devotee not all that connected to the main committee overheard bits and pieces and asked, "How much do you need?"
Somebody answered, "30 000 dollars". The elderly man went to his truck, got his chequebook, and wrote the chegue for $30 000. It's actually fun to give, especially if you can see the personal joy it can bring to the receivers, like warm clothing in these Canadian winters.

 

[psychoslice]

Well, I'm not all that certain of that one. Depends on circumstances, I suppose.

For instance, if you made a personal covenant with God to tithe....and broke your half of that covenant by refusing to do so, then it probably makes a pretty big difference.

As well, if the only charity you 'do' involves tithing, and you don't tithe or contribute in any other way to helping others, it might make a difference because, er, you aren't helping anybody.

Tithing, as I have mentioned before, isn't about the money. God certainly doesn't need the profit...but those He has asked us to help and comfort DO need it. The trick is to find out who, among all the myriad begging recipients, will do the most good with your contributions.

Tithing (and every other contribution to religion, whether it is time, goods or money) is about fellowship and helping other humans, NOT about pleasing God...except inasmuch as you think He has asked us to help each other.

got it?

Yes you can make a personal covenant, but we do live in a real world, and many times things happen in our life that makes it hard to continuing paying something like a tithe, and therefore you would have to break that covenant. I am sure if there is a god he would understand like any of us would. Yes tithing again is a personal thing, its no one else's business, you give what you can afford, that is if you want to give, tithing your self is more important than mere money, some people help others in such things as soup kitchens, that is their tithe, anyway its again personal, do what you need to do.

 

[dianaiad]

Yes you can make a personal covenant, but we do live in a real world, and many times things happen in our life that makes it hard to continuing paying something like a tithe, and therefore you would have to break that covenant. I am sure if there is a god he would understand like any of us would. Yes tithing again is a personal thing, its no one else's business, you give what you can afford, that is if you want to give, tithing your self is more important than mere money, some people help others in such things as soup kitchens, that is their tithe, anyway its again personal, do what you need to do.

I guess it's about...faith.

In my system we ask everybody to tithe; in fact, everybody promises TO tithe...and one of the promises (that our system tries very hard to do, actually) is to tell the one doing the tithing that if s/he will tithe, all will be well.

I have proven that myself. Many years ago my husband lost his job and became very ill; he was an epileptic and when he lost his job he also lost his health insurance (and this was before COBRA). We went to our bishop and explained our circumstances. He said....you pay your tithing and everything will be fine.

Everything was. Better than fine, actually.

We paid our tithing (10% of our 'increase,' which wasn't a lot and took a LOT of faith on our part) and the church paid our mortgage, utility bills and groceries. It also took care of Jim's medical care so that he was able to go back to work when the laid off workers were called back.

The thing about tithing is that it is 10% of one's increase...so if disaster strikes so that there is no increase, or little increase, then...????

WE, tithe payers, ended up being on the receiving end.

Which is how our system is supposed to work. Doesn't always, of course, but it COULD....if everybody tithed.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's it, tithing has nothing to do with your walk with God, give when you feel its right to give.

Tithing is a donation. It's giving or charity. I know not all god-religions have charity and giving; but, can you say that charity and donations have nothing to do with one's walk with god?