Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Uh, no. Buddha spoke of Indra and Brahma, not praised them.
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Buddha believed in the Creator God
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Uh, no. Buddha spoke of Indra and Brahma, not praised them.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Buddhist was a later invention by way of the term so technically you are right. Yet the practice centers from the Buddha's teachings, as they are being presented right now.
Leftimies
Dwelling in the Principle
Buddha rejected creator-deity. Reality was boundless and its origin unknowable - if it had origin at all. Buddha doesn't dismiss the existence of devas, but does make a claim that they are as mortal as humans, subject to death, and that we should pay no mind to them. They too, are unknowable, but their existence is likely due to the infinite nature of reality.
A lot, I reckon, of the religious ordeal was added afterwards - after Buddha's death - to make the religion more accessible to the general population of the time. If you look at the pure teaching of Buddhism, it is a very dark and depressing religion at first sight. It takes time to digest. Giving gods more significance built bridges between Buddhism and Hinduism, and Buddha's teaching originally was likely very ignorant of gods. This is all my speculation though.
Change is the only constant, a fundamental part of the Buddhist teaching. I have come to understand that there is no past or future, merely this moment. That it is change of physical realm that brings about the concept of time: outside of change, there is no time, no duration. Thus, there simply could not be a creator deity.
A lot, I reckon, of the religious ordeal was added afterwards - after Buddha's death - to make the religion more accessible to the general population of the time. If you look at the pure teaching of Buddhism, it is a very dark and depressing religion at first sight. It takes time to digest. Giving gods more significance built bridges between Buddhism and Hinduism, and Buddha's teaching originally was likely very ignorant of gods. This is all my speculation though.
Change is the only constant, a fundamental part of the Buddhist teaching. I have come to understand that there is no past or future, merely this moment. That it is change of physical realm that brings about the concept of time: outside of change, there is no time, no duration. Thus, there simply could not be a creator deity.
Andywelikandy
Member
Buddha had no idea about hell and heaven. Thus, he could not teach anything about either. When he was asked how one could attain Nirvana, he said he doesn't know how but that he had reached that point. About knowledge he said that what he knows is so small that it was like a handful of leaves plucked from a tree compared to all the leaves of all the trees in the world. Buddha never taught anybody how to avoid hell-fire. All major religions teach about hell-fire, but not Budhism.
Actually, "hell-fire" is only a common belief in Christianity (and only certain forms of it at that) and Islam.
For example, Catholicism tends to view Hell as separation from God, which is what brings the suffering (which are viewed as self-imposed). Orthodox Christianity views Hell as being in the presence of God, but being so full of hatred towards God that His radiant love is experienced as torment whereas the Saints in Heaven experience it as fiery passionate love. So the fire in Hell is metaphorical, not a literal burning in fire for all eternity. (I personally prefer the Orthodox idea of Hell because it makes more sense.)
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gsa
Well-Known Member
Or Judaism, or Hinduism, or any religion save Islam and Christianity. Also they do discuss hell, multiple hells even, but beings go there as a result of karma, and it is just part of samsara, not an eternal state. But you go there for a long, long, long time.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
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Everybody has experts on Buddha that say whatever they want to hear about Buddha.
From all the experts and commentators I have heard I'd say Buddha was not a theist or an atheist; I'd say he was a non-theist meaning he didn't address the question saying it leads to unsolvable vexation (have we not seen that on RF with Buddhism). My opinion is that he told us to stay concerned with subjects we can know; like suffering and the end of suffering.
From all the experts and commentators I have heard I'd say Buddha was not a theist or an atheist; I'd say he was a non-theist meaning he didn't address the question saying it leads to unsolvable vexation (have we not seen that on RF with Buddhism). My opinion is that he told us to stay concerned with subjects we can know; like suffering and the end of suffering.
We have the Tipitaka, George. Either it was forfeit a long time ago, or the Buddha either did not believe or did not value believe in a creator god.
Does this negate my opinion that he was a non-theist? It sounds like your talking about a dualistic creator God is not accepted. Did he address every reasonable God concept like non-dualism and tell us it must be rejected; I've never heard that; I've heard he considered it unknowable. That's non-theism.
Since you present it as a contrast to atheism, I have no idea. Such subtleties challenge my perception and understanding. I'm from the good old times when those two were one and the same thing.
If telling us not to bother with the concepts counts as rejection, then yes, he did.
Agnosticism, you mean?
I guess that is technically true. But it is presented not so much as necessary as not worth worrying about.
Andywelikandy
Member
Hell has to be a real place. Why? Because Jesus Christ Himself taught that hell is a real place where real people will go when they Judged on the Day of Judgment when He (Jesus) will judge all who have rejected the Free Gift of Salvation He Himself offered to all mankind. The gift is free to mankind but He Himself payed the "High Price' with His own life by volunteering to die an excruciatingly painful death on a Roman cross. If interested pl Google for :"Hell in the Bible."
Btw, if there is no life after death, then Jesus was not wise to have warned about it. Jesus did not waste His time, effort and words if hell is not a real place.
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In my book that would be non-theism; not theism or atheism.
Andywelikandy
Member
No normal human being can ever ignore CREATION. Why? Because what has been created is all around every human being, even blind/deaf people. So Buddha had to at least recognize creation. The human mind knows that nothing can come out of nothing and also that life does not come out of dead matter under normal conditions of "daily life". By daily life I mean the normal day to day behaviour of natural things. We also know that everything in the universe had to have beginning. Why? Because everything in the universe has a final end. If something has an end, it means that it had a beginning at which time the process of coming to an end started. Astronomers teach us that every heavenly body will have an end some day and therefore they have had a beginning at some time in the past.
As for Buddha, he, with his highly ENLIGHTENED mind had to know that there had to be a Creator in order to have created things. He may not have spoken about a creator, but he had to know that there was a creator. Buddha came out of Hinduism and Hinduism teaches about a creator. Once when he was asked a difficult question to answer he said that there is no point in asking such questions because the knowledge he has is so little that it could be compared to a handful of leaves plucked from a tree in comparison to all the leaves of all the trees in the world. And btw Buddha was only a human being after all and not a god of Hinduism or other ...ism.
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I'm not sure why you're talking to me as if I'm not a Christian. I believe in Christ's Redemption of humanity and I believe that Hell exists. I just don't see it in the same way you do, apparently.
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
Your ignorance of Buddhism does not prevent you from making erroneous claims.
Gee, thanks. I think. Or something.
No, he did not. No one has. The idea that "there must have been a creator" is quite unsustainable, an arbitrary belief that no one needs.
Wrong on so many levels, for so many different reasons.
This, too, is simply not known to be true. It is just something that many people feel strongly about.
No.
No.
Buddha was certainly aware of Hinduism. He explicitly taught differently from it, though.
Actually he is both, somehow...Andywelikandy
Member
Like what?
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
"As for Buddha, he, with his highly ENLIGHTENED mind had to know that there had to be a Creator"
Like this. Ignorance.
Andywelikandy
Member
Buddha was supposed to have gotten Enlightened. Ok, no problem! What was he enlightened about? If he was enlightened about every thing in the universe and beyond, then he had to know that matter had to have been manufacture d by some intelligent being. Why? Because all matter behave in certain ways which are not random. Rabbits do not lay eggs and chicken do not lay snake eggs, etc, etc. The sun will always rise and set and planet earth will always go round the sun in a set pattern. Thus it means that there had to be an infinitely intelligent Being to have created everything in the universe. Enough said!