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Buddha believed in the Creator God

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, May 18, 2012.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    One may like to read a research article by Mirza Tahir Ahmad on Buddhism, by clicking the link at the end of the following quote:
    “This impression of the Buddhists' negation of God is also wrong on another count. An exploration of early Buddhist sources as we shall demonstrate, reveals ample proof that Buddhism began like any other Divinely revealed faith with its emphasis on the Unity of God.”

    Buddhism
     
    #1 paarsurrey, May 18, 2012
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  2. nameless

    nameless The Creator

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    the article is from an islamic website, not a reliable source ...
     
  3. chinu

    chinu Businessman.

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    means "re-union" with from where we all started the journey of life in the beginning.
    Which type of sources are reliable ? Why islamic websites are not considred as reliable source ? :)
     
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  4. chinu

    chinu Businessman.

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    means "re-union" with from where we all started the journey of life in the beginning.
    Who is/was mirza tahir ? Saint ? God ? :)
    Why to believe him ?
     
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I don't say to believe in him; just read the article, which is not very long, and evaluate the contents, please. The writings on the Stupas are mentioned as earliest Buddhist sources on the topic.
     
    #5 paarsurrey, May 18, 2012
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  6. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    So, Buddha was a Muslim. Sweet.
     
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  7. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    How do you say that?
     
  8. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    So whats the debate about?
     
  9. Gjallarhorn

    Gjallarhorn N'yog-Sothep

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    Okay, since you obviously don't care about scripture, I will try something else:

    Assuming Buddha believed in a Creator God, what changes?
     
  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    My point is that founders of all revealed religions were truthful in origin; they played a great part in development of humanity ; human society evolved to greater heights of morality and spirituality under their guidance; they always supported peace and co-existence among human beings; they never opposed reason, rationality, seeking of knowledge and sciences. All of them are icons of religion and should be respected and honored without exception.
    We should be thankful to them; and for the message the Creator sent through them. Thanks to the Creator God.

    Buddha was one such great human.
     
  11. idav

    idav Being
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    At the very beginning.

    It is only partially correct because buddha rejected the creator god and not necessarily other forms of God. Same problem Dawkins had in "God delusion" the pantheist type god isn't rejected just the personal creator type god.
     
  12. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I think the author means that the above sentence is partially correct about Buddhism which has many denominations, some of them may deny it expressly while others may be at different levels of believing in a deity.

    That is about Buddhism not about Buddha; he believed in God and that is what the essence of that article is. Please read it in entirety and then comment on its contents with your arguments; even if you differ with it.

    I shall be waiting for your reasonable arguments/comments.

    Thanks
     
  13. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    The reasonable arguments/comment is that the author and you don't represent Buddhism, and are unable or unwilling to see the traditions and schools for what they are and the practices therein. An additional comment is Paarsurrey invents all this nonsense and promptly titles it "Buddha believed in the creator God".

    You require a prefix whenever dealing with a religion or practice you lack practicable knowelege and insight on hence, Paarsurry sez that..........Im starting to view you as a troll. ....
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I think I never said that I represent Buddhism.
    Did I?
    In fact there are many denominations of the Buddhists and none of them represents Buddha.
     
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  15. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Buddha is representative of Buddhism as well some aspects of Hinduism and while I don't have any personal issues when encountering folks who differ in opinion and perspective, you hardly give any reason or explaination as to exactly how you arriveyd at the conclusions as you do you which you put out. Your postings and links indicates you know the association with "Buddha" and "Buddhism". At least you can elaborate as to how you comfirm a" creator god" I in the context your putting forth.
     
  16. Tathagata

    Tathagata Freethinker

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    You keep ignoring these passages from scripture. When will you confront these face to face??


    The Buddha's Direct Words from Scripture on the Subject of God

    The Buddha:
    "Others think that God is free creator of all things; clinging to these foolish notions, there is no awakening." [Lankavatara Sutra]

    The Buddha
    : "All such notions [of a] ...personal soul, Supreme Spirit, Sovereign God, Creator, are all figments of the imagination and manifestations of mind."
    [Lankavatara Sutra]

    The Buddha: “This position rises the question of a first cause which the philosophers meet by asserting that their first cause, God and the primal elements, are un-born and un-annihilate; which position is without evidence and is irrational.”
    [
    Lankavatara Sutra]

    The Buddha:
    "In this same class the disciples are the earnest disciples of other faiths, who clinging to the notions of such things as, the soul as an external entity, Supreme Atman, Personal God, seek a [belief] that is in harmony with them. ...But none of these, earnest though they be, have gained an insight into the truth of the twofold egolessness and are, therefore, of limited spiritual insights as regards deliverance and non-deliverance; for them there is no emancipation. They have great self-confidence but they can never gain a true knowledge of Nirvana."
    [Lankavatara Sutra]

    The Buddha: "
    The doctrine of the Tathagata-womb is disclosed in order to awaken philosophers from their clinging to the notion of a Divine Atman as transcendental personality, so that their minds that have become attached to the imaginary notion of "soul" as being something self-existent, may be quickly awakened to a state of perfect enlightenment."
    [Lankavatara Sutra]

    The Buddha: "Is it true that you hold that whatever a person experiences is all caused by a Supreme Being's act of creation? Then in that case, a person is a killer of living beings because of a Supreme Being's act of creation. A person is a thief, unchaste, a liar, a divisive speaker, a harsh speaker, an idle chatterer, greedy, malicious, a holder of wrong views because of a Supreme Being's act of creation. "When one falls back on creation by a Supreme Being as being essential, there is no desire [motivation], no effort [at the thought], 'This should be done. This shouldn't be done.' When one can't pin down as a truth or reality what should & shouldn't be done, one dwells bewildered & unprotected. One cannot righteously refer to oneself as a contemplative. This was my second righteous refutation of those priests & contemplatives who hold to such teachings, such views."
    [Tittha Sutta]

    The Buddha:
    "Others see the eternally of things in the conception of Nirvana as the absorption of the finite-soul in the supreme Atman; or who see all things as a manifestation of the vital-force of some Supreme Spirit to which all return; and some, who are especially silly, declare that there are two primary things, a primary substance and a primary soul, that react differently upon each other and thus produce all things from the transformations of qualities; some think that the world is born of action and interaction and that no other cause is necessary."
    [Lankavatara Sutra]


    Buddha's Discourse On God, the Absolute, the First Cause, and the Nature of Reality

    From the Culla Vagga of the Tipitika:

    "After taking his seat Anathapindika expressed a desire to hear a discourse on some religious subject.

    "The Blessed Lord responding to his wishes raised the question, Who is it that shapes our lives? Is it God, a personal creator? If God be the maker, all living things should have silently to submit to their maker's power. They would be like vessels formed by the potter's hand. If the world had been made by God there should be no such thing as sorrow, or calamity, or sin; for both pure and impure deeds must come from him. If not, there would be another cause beside him, and he would not be the self-existent one. Thus, you see, the thought of God is overthrown.

    "Again, it is said that the Absolute cannot be a cause. All things around us come from a cause as the plant comes from the seed; how can the Absolute be the cause of all things alike? If it pervades them, then certainly it does not make them.


    "Again, it is said that the self is the maker. But if self is the maker, why did he not make things pleasing? The cases of sorrow and joy are real and objective. How can they have been made by self?


    (Note: I think he is referring to a supreme spirit/soul [like a Holy Spirit I guess] because in English, "the self" refers to the Hindu notion of a soul [atman].)


    "Again, if you adopt the argument, there is no maker, or fate in such as it is, and there is no causation, what use would there be in shaping our lives and adjusting means to an end?


    "Therefore, we argue that all things that exist are not without a cause. However, neither God, nor the Absolute, nor the self, no causeless chance, is the maker, but our deeds produce results both good and evil.


    "The whole world is under the law of causation, and the causes that act are not un-mental, for the gold of which the cup is made is gold throughout.



    "Let us, then, surrender the heresies of worshiping God and praying to him; let us not lose ourselves in vain speculations of profitless subtleties; let us surrender self and all selfishness, and as all things are fixed by causation, let us practice good so that good may result from our actions."


    [Culla Vagga 6:2]


     
  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The middle path; itself shows that Buddha got enlightenment/revelation from the Creator God.

    Unity or ONENESS of the Creator God is the natural belief or default faith of humanity; when they get astray they believe in many gods or they altogether deny any gods; both are one the extremes; normalcy returns when some selfless and pure person like Buddha gets converse/enlightenment from the Creator God and gets the teachings of the middle path or right path.
     
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  18. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Ok so is the creator god a metaphor or an actual entity in your view?
     
  19. Tathagata

    Tathagata Freethinker

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    Uh no, the Middle Path says no such thing. It doesn't even imply anything the sort.

    What you are saying is rubbish and has no basis in scripture. I provide scriptural evidence for my claims, you provide nothing but baseless conjecture.

    The Buddha: "Others think that God is free creator of all things; clinging to these foolish notions, there is no awakening."
    [Lankavatara Sutra]

    The Buddha: "All such notions [of a] ...personal soul, Supreme Spirit, Sovereign God, Creator, are all figments of the imagination and manifestations of mind."
    [Lankavatara Sutra]


    I wonder how long it will take before you understand this.



    .
     
  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The Creator God is the only ONE reality in existence and attributes; all others have been bestowed existence and life by Him. He only is Immortal; all except Him will die; He makes them die and nobody else could escape death.
     
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