Biblical Slavery - How Could A Loving God Condone It?

[Maximilian]

I have read the Koran and lived around Muslims for about 20 years.. You are hawking some BS from an internet hate site.

And Dawoodi Bohra, ISIS, Al-Qaida, Abu Sayyaf, the Ayatollah, Wahhabis, Tehreek-e-Labbaik, Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLF, Boko Haram, ISIL along with their hundreds of millions of sympathizers would not exist were it not for Islam.

 

[sooda]

And Dawoodi Bohra, ISIS, Al-Qaida, Abu Sayyaf, the Ayatollah, Wahhabis, Tehreek-e-Labbaik, Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLF, Boko Haram, ISIL along with their hundreds of millions of sympathizers would not exist were it not for Islam.

I have always liked Muslims, but then I lived with them for 20 years.

 

[Maximilian]

@Maximilian,

You may have a lot of knowledge and good intentions, but if you keep mixing excrement into your good intentions, no one is going to listen to you.

Where have I done this? (Feel free to link directly to any of my rejoinders.)

 

[Maximilian]

If you're wrong, will u admit it?

Absolutely!

 

[Maximilian]

LOLOL.. You haven't read any of those verses in context. Which hate site is your source?

What Islamists do to each other in Pakistan,Nigeria, Cameroon, Chad, Niger, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia, Somalia, Kenya, Algeria, Burkina Faso, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the rest of the Muslim world is all of the context that's needed.

After all, "Actions prove why words mean nothing." -Anonymous

 

[dybmh]

Where have I done this? (Feel free to link directly to any of my rejoinders.)

Absolutely!

Ok... Here's your opportunity for intellectual credibility:

Because everything they do is absolutely and completely consistent with the Qur'an. If it weren't they wouldn't be Muslim.

The actions of ISIS are inconsistent with the Qur'an 2:194.

Therefore you are wrong.

Please admit it.

 

[Maximilian]

@Maximilian

So right off the bat... Your Qur'an quote is incomplete. My friend, 2:194...

"remember that no hostility is allowed except against the aggressors.”

And, if you read the rest of the passages I provided you'll see that all of us non-Muslims are the aggressors. Why else would Dawoodi Bohra, ISIS, Al-Qaida, Abu Sayyaf, the Ayatollah, Wahhabis, Tehreek-e-Labbaik, Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLF, Boko Haram, ISIL and other such Muslim's wage their jihad against us?

 

[dybmh]

And, if you read the rest of the passages I provided you'll see that all of us non-Muslims are the aggressors. Why else would Dawoodi Bohra, ISIS, Al-Qaida, Abu Sayyaf, the Ayatollah, Wahhabis, Tehreek-e-Labbaik, Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLF, Boko Haram, ISIL and other such Muslim's wage their jihad against us?

Ok. Forgive me. But "why else would..." Is very weak evidence. It's the same evidence that was used a long time ago to prove the Earth was flat.

I am happy to review all the verses you provided. But I am 95% sure you are wrong here too. The Qur'an does not describe all non-Muslims as aggressors.

 

[Maximilian]

You said "everything they do is absolutely and completely consistent with the Qur'an"

That is factually incorrect.

The actions of ISIS are not consistent with the Qur'an 2:194.

When you make a statement claiming absolute consistency, all i need is 1 inconsistent example and your statement is false.

I repeat. Your statement is false.

You misquoted, my friend

 

[dybmh]

@Maximilian,

Point of Fact: Jihad in the Qur'an is not the word for conventional warfare. It's hard to believe because we hear it so often coming from Terrorists. But I promise, it's true.

It's a very similar misunderstanding coming from translating the word "eved" as "slave". And isn't that one of the main points you're attempting to make in this thread? Aren't you trying to show that the conventional understanding of the concept of slavery is missapplied when reading Leviticus? And your proof is that kidnapping is forbidden?

It's like that. Except you're the one who is misunderstanding the word Jihad. And i propose your entire understanding of what is in the Qur'an is warped. It is warped by your ego and your desire for your version of Christianity to be the only one that's right.

Ask yourself: Are you being humble? Are you being like Christ? I think your ego is puffed up with pride that you're right and Islam is wrong. Hopefully you can realize this; admit you were wrong; admit that ISIS is not Islam and Islam is not ISIS.

Brother, you're not wrong that there are bad people using the Qur'an to justify murder, rape, mutilation and oppression. But that is not Islam. That is not the Qur'an. Those are bad people. They are incorrect not the Qur'an. A small adjustment to your statement about ISIS would render it true. But you would need to admit you misspoke in order to do that.

 

[dybmh]

View attachment 27198

You misquoted, my friend

My translation matches your translation in this way: innocent people are not included. If ISIS targets innocent people it is not absolutley consistent with the Qur'an.

Please, help me understand, using your version of 2:194:

Where is harming innocents encouraged?

 

[ManSinha]

@Maximilian,

Point of Fact: Jihad in the Qur'an is not the word for conventional warfare. It's hard to believe because we hear it so often coming from Terrorists. But I promise, it's true.

Does jihad not mean struggle?

And forget that poster - they will provide a copy and paste answer from a previous post -

 

[Maximilian]

Ok... Here's your opportunity for intellectual credibility:



The actions of ISIS are inconsistent with the Qur'an 2:194.

Therefore you are wrong.

Please admit it.

You'd first need to demonstrate conclusively how and when they violated this sura.

 

[dybmh]

View attachment 27199

You'd first need to demonstrate conclusively how and when they violated this sura.

Ok.

Are u asking me to prove that ISIS attacks innocent people?

 

[dybmh]

@Maximilian,

Please consider Qur'an verse 5:32.

"
whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.
"

Admittedly 5:33-38 are very harsh. But continuing to 5:39 and 5:40:

"
But whoever repents after his wrongdoing and reforms, indeed, Allah will turn to him in forgiveness. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Do you not know that to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punishes whom He wills and forgives whom He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.
"

ISIS is in violation of these verses because they are subverting Allah's dominion and they are preventing a person from repenting from their wrong doings.

Islam is ISIS. ISIS is Islam.

Because everything they do is absolutely and completely consistent with the Qur'an. If it weren't they wouldn't be Muslim.

You said "Islam is ISIS. ISIS is Islam. Everything they do is absolutely completely consistent with the Qur'an."

You are wrong.

I love the truth so if you've come across a factual error in anything I've shared I need to rectify it immediately.

This represents a factual error. ISIS is not absolutely and completely consistent with the Qur'an. ISIS is not Islam and Islam is not ISIS. Please rectify your factual error per your statement above.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Focusing on slavery as practiced by European Christians and its evils doesn't require one to offer up apologetics for slavery in the Islamic world though.

Ok whatever you say didn’t realize by not talking about it means I’m somehow being an apologetic.

 

[sooda]

@Maximilian,

Please consider Qur'an verse 5:32.

"
whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.
"

Admittedly 5:33-38 are very harsh. But continuing to 5:39 and 5:40:

"
But whoever repents after his wrongdoing and reforms, indeed, Allah will turn to him in forgiveness. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Do you not know that to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punishes whom He wills and forgives whom He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.
"

ISIS is in violation of these verses because they are subverting Allah's dominion and they are preventing a person from repenting from their wrong doings.





You said "Islam is ISIS. ISIS is Islam. Everything they do is absolutely completely consistent with the Qur'an."

You are wrong.



This represents a factual error. ISIS is not absolutely and completely consistent with the Qur'an. ISIS is not Islam and Islam is not ISIS. Please rectify your factual error per your statement above.

The hate sites never post those verses you know......

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Have you seen how scripture depicts unbelief and unbelievers? It's pretty unflattering. We're grouped in there with adulterers and whoremongers for the crime of unbelief. None of us is to be trusted, none of us does good ever.

How can anyone trust the amoral?

Is that how you see atheists? Without morals? Each of us?

No surprise, given your holy book. You come by it honestly.

Question, though : How can one call his actions moral when he believes he is being continuously watched and judged for the purpose of rewarding or punishing him? That's how small children with no moral sense make behavioral choices, isn't it? Spanking versus cookie?

That sounds like kidnapping to me.

Only if God Almighty does not have the absolute authority to punish the evil.

It still sounds like kidnapping to me.

Are you challenging his authority?

I challenge his existence. Atheists here.

Given that a slave is "someone who is legally owned by another person and is forced to work for that person without pay," referring to the labor system used by the ancient Israelites as slavery is unscrupulous, dishonest.

I was referring to slavery - the practice of owning a human being, stealing his labor, stealing his freedom, selling off his children, beat him - you know slavery. You keep deflecting to some voluntary financial arrangement that isn't slavery.

Why didn't the Bible authors condemn that practice? They condemned so much, but not that. Do you believe a god was involved in the omission?

you're giving the biblical term “slave” a modern, anachronistic meaning instead of recognizing the expression the way it had been employed in the framework of ancient culture.

Of course ancient Hebrew owned slaves as I just described slavery. They also had livestock, which they treated about the same, like most if not all other contemporary cultures.

Or maybe you think that the oxen pulling plows were volunteers paying off a debt as well.

Present conclusive evidence that Jehovah God does not nor cannot exist and I must accept it. Can you?

I already did that - on this thread. You didn't comment. The argument hasn't changed.

if you don't understand this you don't understand slavery and you simply cannot speak authoritatively on the matter.

Actually, it is you who doesn't seem to know what slavery is.

If you refuse to embrace all of the evidence for his existence how can you be on his side?

Even after embracing all of the evidence for the existence of Jesus, one has no reason to believe that such a person is still alive or has a side. Or have you forgotten that you have no evidence, just faith?

 

[Skreeper]

How can anyone trust the amoral?

That is rich coming from a JW.

You are part of a dangerous cult that is anti-science which endangers countless lives, your cult is anti free spech and the handling of sexual abuse of children inside your cult is disgusting.

Don't act so high and mighty when you are supporting an absolute immoral cult.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

And Dawoodi Bohra, ISIS, Al-Qaida, Abu Sayyaf, the Ayatollah, Wahhabis, Tehreek-e-Labbaik, Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLF, Boko Haram, ISIL along with their hundreds of millions of sympathizers would not exist were it not for Islam.

Can't believe you used Ben Shapiro, the man who just realized Steve King was a racist.