Baha'i Vs Christ

[oldbadger]

There is 5 levels of Spirit. All of creation exists and operates because of the animating force of this spirit.

In the Human, I see the human spirit is the power that fires the brain.

Regards Tony

I acknowledge that you believe that, but I believe that the Bahai idea about spirit is junk, Tony.

Out of your '5 levels of spirit' let's take your 'human spirit', your 'power that fires the brain' spirit. I expect that mankind will produce a computer capable of self awareness, and the power that fires its brain will presumably be a new Bahai spirit? Computer spirits?

Bahai doesn't accept much about the intangible world of 'spirit', look...... it even needs to link 'human spirit' to a tangible condition. And Bahai won't accept spiritualism, mediums, spiritual healing, etc.... ?

Bahai seems to chuck the word 'spirit' around like some fashionable religious 'it' word....... it's not the most irritating aspect of Bahai by a long way, just one of them, I just don't trust the Bahai use of the word.

 

[arthra]

Here's a list where it sure seems that way, Tony.

https://www.quora.com/Where-in-the-writings-of-Bahaullah-does-he-claim-to-be-a-prophet

Number 10 from that list ... In his Tajalliyaat (Tajalli number 4), page 5, Baha’u’llah decrees, “Most surely I am Allah. There is no God save me. I am the Lord of everything. The O my creatures, you worship me alone.” Sure seems like he's saying he's God.

Well it is interesting according to the full context of the sentence quoted it reads:

"By the righteousness of God! But for the anthem of praise voiced by Him Who heralded the divine Revelation, this Wronged One would never have breathed a word which might have struck terror into the hearts of the ignorant and caused them to perish. Dwelling on the glorification of Him Whom God shall make manifest -- exalted be His Manifestation -- the Báb in the beginning of the Bayan saith: 'He is the One Who shall proclaim under all conditions, "Verily, verily, I am God, no God is there but Me, the Lord of all created things. In truth all others except Me are My creatures. O, My creatures! Me alone do ye worship."' Likewise in another instance He, magnifying the Name of Him Who shall be made manifest, saith: 'I would be the first to adore Him.' Now it behoveth one to reflect upon the significance of the 'Adorer' and the 'Adored One', that perchance the people of the earth may partake of a dewdrop from the ocean of divine knowledge and may be enabled to perceive the greatness of this Revelation. Verily, He hath appeared and hath unloosed His tongue to proclaim the Truth. Well is it with him who doth acknowledge and recognize the truth, and woe betide the froward and the wayward."
O kindreds of the earth! Incline your ears unto the Voice from the divine Lote-Tree which overshadoweth 54 the world and be not of the people of tyranny on earth -- men who have repudiated the Manifestation of God and His invincible authority and have renounced His favours -- they in truth are reckoned with the contemptible in the Book of God, the Lord of all mankind.

(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 52)

Baha'i Reference Library: Search Results

The opening subject heading of the fourth Tajalli reads:

"The fourth Tajallí is concerning Divinity, Godhead and the like. Were a man of insight to direct his gaze towards the blessed, the manifest Lote-Tree and its fruits, he would be so enriched thereby as to be independent of aught else and to acknowledge his belief in that which the Speaker on Sinai hath uttered from the throne of Revelation."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 47-54

So it is not Baha'u'llah Who is speaking and it is a quote from the Bayan revealed by the Bab.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

There are thousands!

But this one is mildly successful.

 

[oldbadger]

Stop eating sardines.

My God but you must be the one.......... *humble stupefaction in the presence*

Oh Great One, I followed your Divine guidance and have not eaten a canned Sardine since receiving your words. To my amazement my thumb feels better already, and 'joy of joys', I have received no more satanic cuts, to thumbs, fingers, feet or anywhere else.

I will never forget you.

P.S. do you do Paypal?

 

[arthra]

I acknowledge that you believe that, but I believe that the Bahai idea about spirit is junk,

It's your choice Badger of course and true... Baha'is do not place much confidence in "...spiritualism and mediums..."

As to "spiritual healing I will share some excerpts from Baha'i sources:

"There are two ways of healing sickness, material means and spiritual means. The first is by the use of remedies, of medicines; the second consists in praying to God and in turning to Him. Both means should be used and practiced.
Illness caused by physical accident should be treated with medical remedies; those which are due to spiritual causes disappear through spiritual means. Thus an illness caused by affliction, fear, nervous impressions, will be healed by spiritual rather than by physical treatment. Hence, both kinds of remedies should be considered. Moreover, they are not contradictory, and thou shouldst accept the physical remedies as coming from the mercy and favor of God, who hath revealed and made manifest medical science so that His servants may profit from this kind of treatment also. Thou shouldst give equal attention to spiritual treatments, for they produce marvelous effects."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 375)

"...in this new century the attainment of science, arts and belles lettres, whether divine or worldly, material or spiritual, is a matter which is acceptable before God and a duty which is incumbent upon us to accomplish. Therefore, never deny the spiritual things to the material, rather both are incumbent upon thee."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 376)

"A physician is needed to prescribe. Through his skill the principles of the book are correctly and effectively applied until the patient is restored to health. Christ was a heavenly Physician. He brought spiritual health and healing into the world. Bahá'u'lláh is, likewise, a divine Physician. He has revealed prescriptions for removing disease from the body politic and has remedied human conditions by spiritual power."

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 249)

There are over two hundred sixty references to "spiritual healing" that I see on the "Ocean" search engine and the above are only a few of them.

 

[wizanda]

Thus Baha'u'llah said No one can claim they have had inspiration direct from God for a full 1000 years, if they do they are surly a lying imposter.

This is our OP in many ways, Baha'u'llah defies previous prophecy; thus he doesn't have authority to make claims, unless proven otherwise.

Thus my advice to you in another post was to consider where your experiences have come from. It is possible that some have been inspired by Baha'u'llah.

My own personal case isn't in question; this is Biblical exegesis, and where the religious tenets can be shown wrong by Baha'i's eisegesis.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

I hope that clarifies the difference in interpretations.

Many religious traditions have a denial mechanism as it is human nature... Instead of read context, people look for solutions to possible traumatic situations...

Rewriting tons of physical explanations into being metaphoric, and overlooking context, then lowers the texts real meaning.

In this case, By the term 'Dead', They meant a misguided person, who spiritually is dead.

When we change a meaning of a word to suit a context, it must match the context of the sentence structures it is applied within, and what the original language meant.

Could show where word usages are wrong, where contexts are misapplied; trying to understand the Baha'i perspective, and can hear in your words, where there is an ideal of Heaven on earth, already sounding so achievable...

Yet if Baha'i have already overlooked all the evil prophetic nature in the Bible; where the world is consistently getting worse, as many don't see it, what would you call that?

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

The AntiChrist brings about the Tribulation

The Anti-Christ's teachings have already brought the Tribulation...

Christianity was created by the Pharisees, John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros); these stand against Christ in the Tanakh, Revelation, James, Jude, Synoptic Gospels.

The dichotomies between the religious traditions instead of resolving differences, soon leads to world war 3.

Christ brings the Tribulation.

Luke 17:25-37 is the Lake of Fire, when the son of man comes.

Then why is Christ shorten the days of the Tribulation to bring the Tribulation to it's end.

World War 3 would destroy humanity, so instead in a single day, mankind is washed with holy energy, and God keeps the saints.

In my opinion.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Anti-Christ's teachings have already brought the Tribulation...

Christianity was created by the Pharisees, John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros); these stand against Christ in the Tanakh, Revelation, James, Jude, Synoptic Gospels.

The dichotomies between the religious traditions instead of resolving differences, soon leads to world war 3.

Luke 17:25-37 is the Lake of Fire, when the son of man comes.

World War 3 would destroy humanity, so instead in a single day, mankind is washed with holy energy, and God keeps the saints.

In my opinion.

Well it's obvious that you don't have a clue or idea what the lake of fire is.

And for another thing, there will not be no
World war 3 in destroying the earth or humanity.

Let's for say, that there will be a World war 3,
So how is this going to fit in with the book of Revelation, Seeing that the book of Revelation is about Christ Jesus return.
So if there's a World war 3, what good will the book of Revelation be.
A World war 3 would be defeating Christ Jesus and the whole book of Revelation.
Can you explain exactly how this is to work?

And for another thing, Paul, John and Simon did not create Christianity,
Jesus brought about Christianity.
But then it's obvious that you haven't a clue or idea about that.

It's even more amazing as to how you come by all that.
Have you any idea at all what Christianity means and what Christian was taken from to be called Christian.
Where did Christian get it's name from?
Let's see if you can explain that one?

 

[wizanda]

We believe in Jesus and the Holy Bible

Muslims do this as well claim they believe something they don't understand; as they've not exegetically studied Biblical context unbiasly, away from their esiegetical pretext.

3. Christ sacrificed Himseled to save us from our waywardness. I fully agree with this. I see no discrepancy at all.

Therefore this is demonic according to the Bible prophecy, and because no context is understood; then the Snare & Bed of Adultery (Revelation 2:22 = Isaiah 28:9-21) presented by the prophets isn't even rejected based on testimony, you've been put into a trap, and no one has told you it even exists.

Didn’t Jesus say He was in heaven at a time He walked upon the earth.

Nope he said here was Gehenna (Matthew 23:15), he said people are evil down here (Luke 11:13), he said the Children of Light were not of this age (Luke 16:8) and that in the 2nd part of the parable of the Wheat and Tares (Matthew 13:36-43), that some beings are demons & fallen ones here (Tares - Rephaim/Nephilim) and some are angels (Wheat - Elohim).

Where do you get that Baha’u’llah was Christ’s father?

Baha'u'llah misquotes Biblical prophecy, which makes him claiming to be God Biblically.

"In the Glory of God" is that the light of God comes here in the Messianic age, not some corruptible human being.

I am unaware Christ taught reincarnation

Yeshua asked his disciples, and they believed he could be Elijah returned (Mark 8:27-30), and yet he told them John the Baptist was Elijah (Matthew 17:10-13).

Prophetically Malachi 4:4-6 has to be that John the Baptist is Elijah reincarnated, and Yeshua, before the Curse of Moses Deuteronomy 28 & Snare Isaiah 8 - Isaiah 28 is placed on all of Israel.

I don’t think most Christians would agree

Reincarnation was taught until 533AD, as Judaism believes in it (Gilgul), and we can scientifically show it exists, by the many children born with past life memories.

In my opinion.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Muslims do this as well claim they believe something they don't understand; as they've not exegetically studied Biblical context unbiasly, away from their esiegetical pretext.

Therefore this is demonic according to the Bible prophecy, and because no context is understood; then the Snare & Bed of Adultery (Revelation 2:22 = Isaiah 28:9-21) presented by the prophets isn't even rejected based on testimony, you've been put into a trap, and no one has told you it even exists.

Nope he said here was Gehenna (Matthew 23:15), he said people are evil down here (Luke 11:13), he said the Children of Light were not of this age (Luke 16:8) and that in the 2nd part of the parable of the Wheat and Tares (Matthew 13:36-43), that some beings are demons & fallen ones here (Tares - Rephaim/Nephilim) and some are angels (Wheat - Elohim).

Baha'u'llah misquotes Biblical prophecy, which makes him claiming to be God Biblically.

"In the Glory of God" is that the light of God comes here in the Messianic age, not some corruptible human being.

Yeshua asked his disciples, and they believed he could be Elijah returned (Mark 8:27-30), and yet he told them John the Baptist was Elijah (Matthew 17:10-13).

Prophetically Malachi 4:4-6 has to be that John the Baptist is Elijah reincarnated, and Yeshua, before the Curse of Moses Deuteronomy 28 & Snare Isaiah 8 - Isaiah 28 is placed on all of Israel.

Reincarnation was taught until 533AD, as Judaism believes in it (Gilgul), and we can scientifically show it exists by the many children born with past life memories.

In my opinion.

If I may ask, Christ Jesus said in Luke 16:8
That the Children of Light were not of this age?
What exactly does Christ Jesus mean by
( the Children of Light were not of this age)

It's evidence that Christ Jesus is not speaking about generation. But something far deeper than Generation, But more like ( world age)

So how many world age do you suppose there are or to say earth ages.

How many world age/ earth age do you suppose there are.
And where exactly does this fit into the new testament at.
As you said ( many children born with past life memories)
So where exactly does this fit into the New testament at.

 

[wizanda]

Where did Christian get it's name from?

The terminology Christian was first applied in Antioch to Paul & Simon the stone (petros's) ministry (Acts 11:25-26) about Christ's death as a gospel.

the lake of fire is.

Is the cleansing of mankind, the word brimstone (H1614) is specifically used throughout the Tanakh (Genesis 19:24, Deuteronomy 29:23, Job 18:15, Psalms 11:6, Isaiah 30:33, Isaiah 34:9, Ezekiel 38:22).

Basically those text state the Messiah is the sign that ignites the Holy Fire at the Battle of Armageddon, cleansing all that isn't Godly... This is also recorded globally, in Zoroastrian, Hindu, Taoist, etc texts.

Let's for say, that there will be a World war 3,
So how is this going to fit in with the book of Revelation, Seeing that the book of Revelation is about Christ Jesus return.

Revelation 8-9 and Revelation 16 is the Tribulation, as a reverse count down from 6, where the son of man is here as a thief Revelation 16:15-16 before the Battle of Armageddon (6th), then the sky is darkened from nuclear fallout (5th), the sun is darkened and so crops fail (4th), the rivers become toxic (3rd), then sea life dies (2nd), and finally humanity with radiation poisoning (1st)...

Then the 7th Seal, Bowl and Trumpet is God removes reality, and keeps the saints on a new earth. - Most here have failed.

So if there's a World war 3, what good will the book of Revelation be.

Clearly Revelation 11:18 says God is to remove those who are destroying the earth, so the book of Revelation gives ample warning for people to be in alignment with the teachings it presented.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

What exactly does Christ Jesus mean by
( the Children of Light were not of this age)

The Children of Light was in the Essenes as well, it is an idea the Elohim (Divine Representatives) have visited mankind to elevate us to be like them (Psalms 82:6); the Rephaim (Demons), and Nephilim Fallen Ones) have been deliberately misleading us down here.

But something far deeper than Generation, But more like ( world age)

Yeshua was Divine not only Jewish; in Hinduism we have multiple Ages that mankind shall go through, prophetically we're in an age of Kali Yuga (Age of Limitation) and we shall move into an Age of Enlightenment (Satya Yuga), when the Rider on the White Horse (Kalki) comes to remove sinful behavior (Adharmic) with Fire, and is the 25th incarnation of the Divine from a Place of Peace (Shambhala/New Jerusalem).

In my opinion.

 

[sooda]

Muslims do this as well claim they believe something they don't understand; as they've not exegetically studied Biblical context unbiasly, away from their esiegetical pretext.

Therefore this is demonic according to the Bible prophecy, and because no context is understood; then the Snare & Bed of Adultery (Revelation 2:22 = Isaiah 28:9-21) presented by the prophets isn't even rejected based on testimony, you've been put into a trap, and no one has told you it even exists.

Nope he said here was Gehenna (Matthew 23:15), he said people are evil down here (Luke 11:13), he said the Children of Light were not of this age (Luke 16:8) and that in the 2nd part of the parable of the Wheat and Tares (Matthew 13:36-43), that some beings are demons & fallen ones here (Tares - Rephaim/Nephilim) and some are angels (Wheat - Elohim).

Baha'u'llah misquotes Biblical prophecy, which makes him claiming to be God Biblically.

"In the Glory of God" is that the light of God comes here in the Messianic age, not some corruptible human being.

Yeshua asked his disciples, and they believed he could be Elijah returned (Mark 8:27-30), and yet he told them John the Baptist was Elijah (Matthew 17:10-13).

Prophetically Malachi 4:4-6 has to be that John the Baptist is Elijah reincarnated, and Yeshua, before the Curse of Moses Deuteronomy 28 & Snare Isaiah 8 - Isaiah 28 is placed on all of Israel.

Reincarnation was taught until 533AD, as Judaism believes in it (Gilgul), and we can scientifically show it exists, by the many children born with past life memories.

In my opinion.

I have read that belief in reincarnation was widespread until the 5th century AD.. and that would account for the fear that Nero would return.

Rev. 17:8, The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,…” (KJV)

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is our OP in many ways, Baha'u'llah defies previous prophecy; thus he doesn't have authority to make claims, unless proven otherwise.

Baha'u'llah has proven to me he has the authority of God, no doubt.

Your authority?

Regards Tony

 

[Shantanu]

Baha'u'llah has proven to me he has the authority of God, no doubt.

Your authority?

Regards Tony

Why look for any other authority than oneself if one is confident in the education that one has received?

 

[wizanda]

Baha'u'llah has proven to me he has the authority of God, no doubt.

Since we can show where Baha'i's exegesis on text is off, and thus it shows basic comprehension issues in logic - it doesn't qualify, just because you believe something.

Your authority?

Religious texts globally as one, and clear exegesis that can be shown in all aspects if needed.

In my opinion.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The terminology Christian was first applied in Antioch to Paul & Simon the stone (petros's) ministry (Acts 11:25-26) about Christ's death as a gospel.

Is the cleansing of mankind, the word brimstone (H1614) is specifically used throughout the Tanakh (Genesis 19:24, Deuteronomy 29:23, Job 18:15, Psalms 11:6, Isaiah 30:33, Isaiah 34:9, Ezekiel 38:22).

Basically those text state the Messiah is the sign that ignites the Holy Fire at the Battle of Armageddon, cleansing all that isn't Godly... This is also recorded globally, in Zoroastrian, Hindu, Taoist, etc texts.

Revelation 8-9 and Revelation 16 is the Tribulation, as a reverse count down from 6, where the son of man is here as a thief Revelation 16:15-16 before the Battle of Armageddon (6th), then the sky is darkened from nuclear fallout (5th), the sun is darkened and so crops fail (4th), the rivers become toxic (3rd), then sea life dies (2nd), and finally humanity with radiation poisoning (1st)...

Then the 7th Seal, Bowl and Trumpet is God removes reality, and keeps the saints on a new earth. - Most here have failed.

Clearly Revelation 11:18 says God is to remove those who are destroying the earth, so the book of Revelation gives ample warning for people to be in alignment with the teachings it presented.

In my opinion.

You really got to be kidding.
Nuclear fall out, now that is amazing as to how you by all of that, seeing that clouds that darken a has nothing to do with a nuclear fall out in Revelation.

Can you show in Revelation where Christ Jesus will say all these things that you saying. All because I find no where in the whole book of Revelation of Christ Jesus making any mentioning of these things.
So my question is, as to how you come by these thing, When Christ Jesus himself makes no mentioning of them, in the whole book of Revelation.

And what's more amazing is that you believe in it.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Children of Light was in the Essenes as well, it is an idea the Elohim (Divine Representatives) have visited mankind to elevate us to be like them (Psalms 82:6); the Rephaim (Demons), and Nephilim Fallen Ones) have been deliberately misleading us down here.

Yeshua was Divine not only Jewish; in Hinduism we have multiple Ages that mankind shall go through, prophetically we're in an age of Kali Yuga (Age of Limitation) and we shall move into an Age of Enlightenment (Satya Yuga), when the Rider on the White Horse (Kalki) comes to remove sinful behavior (Adharmic) with Fire, and is the 25th incarnation of the Divine from a Place of Peace (Shambhala/New Jerusalem).

In my opinion.

If to what you say to be true, which I find one thing to be a flaw in what your saying

Now with everything that you said, Can you explain exactly where the dinosaurs bones came from in what earth age.

All because as the dinosaurs bones have been dated back to some 6.4 million years ago.
Which out dates the creation of mankind..

So the dinosaurs were not created at the time of mankind being created.

So where did the dinosaurs bones come from, and they sure we're not just floating around I space and then one day just down here on earth and covered themselves over with dirt.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Many religious traditions have a denial mechanism as it is human nature... Instead of read context, people look for solutions to possible traumatic situations...

Rewriting tons of physical explanations into being metaphoric, and overlooking context, then lowers the texts real meaning.

When we change a meaning of a word to suit a context, it must match the context of the sentence structures it is applied within, and what the original language meant.

Could show where word usages are wrong, where contexts are misapplied; trying to understand the Baha'i perspective, and can hear in your words, where there is an ideal of Heaven on earth, already sounding so achievable...

Yet if Baha'i have already overlooked all the evil prophetic nature in the Bible; where the world is consistently getting worse, as many don't see it, what would you call that?

In my opinion.

I think i need you to be specific which verses of The Bible you are refering.
Are you saying that, Bible had prophesied that when Christ returns, the world would go through tribulation? And is this not come to pass?
Yes, it has come to pass. How?
There are two aspects in the Bible prophecies:

1. The Bible says, the Days of return of Christ would be like the Days of Noah.

2. The Bible says when Christ returns He makes all things new.

The begining of the first prophecy is year 1844. The Bab was return of Christ. The first time He returned in this Age.
Now, Noah spent 120 years to build the Arc to save them from flood. In Bahai view Arc is a symbol of the Religion of God.
The parallel of the time of Noah to Bahai Revelation exactly can be seen as follows:
When the Bab came, He prepared the people for Bahaullah. Then Bahaullah began revealing the words of God, and writing the Laws and the New covenant, untill finally in year 1963, universal house of Justice was established. The establishment of universal house of justic, marks the completion of the Arc. When you count from 1844, to 1963, there are 120 years. This is the time it took to build the Arc by which people can be saved from the flood. By the flood is not meant a physical flood that killes literally the flash. But it represents all those things in the world which causes people to die spiritually. All the materialistic things and lust in the world which kills the spirit of humankind. Thus, whoever enters the Arc, meaning, whoever follows the religion of God teachings, can be saved from the flood which kills human spirit. This flood is the tribulation, but it is not a physical tribulation, rather it is happening right now, in the spiritual realm of mankind. Do you see the flood of Sin today, how it is flowing into the world? This is the tribulation Bible prophesied in a symbolic language.

As regards to the second prophecy, starting from 19th century, the world became a new world. All things are changed. We are living in a new age.

Thus the prophecies are fulfilled.