Bad For Jews in the UK?

[exchemist]

The number of news outlets and their readership would seem to indicate so - how many decidedly left-wing ones are there? Most of these have very small readerships - New Statesman, for example. The Mirror, Guardian, and Independent don't add up to much either, if the latter two can be called left-wing.

The fact I had not heard of this incident is not evidence of right wing control of the media. Even the BBC, which is not right wing, and which most people use as one of their primary news sources, only covered it in their regional news section. It simply was not a national story.

The major newspapers are indeed mostly owned by right wing proprietors, but that does not enable them to deny citizens access to news stories the proprietors might dislike. (The Guardian is a left wing paper, no question: a casual glance at its columnists should leave you in no doubt.)

 

[exchemist]

Well this is Friday evening here in UK and most practising Jews Jews won't be here until tomorrow evening.Also I don't know of any British Jews here, so I reluctantly feel I have to say something.

I grew up in London in a Jewish community, in the 1950s and 1960s.
I will give just a few of my memories.

Antisemitism was rife where I lived and many Jews were attacked on the street. I don't recall anyone being murdered though.
I remember at the age of 4 people shouting 'Go back to Israel'.
My father partnered with a Christian (a lay preacher) in opening homes for the poor in Hackney(London's east end). This preacher also happened to be black and some of the people used to shout 'Look at the Jew and the Black walking together'.

I was personally beaten up several times before I was 10 years. Once was because I killed Jesus, so I was told.(go figure!) Other times because of my school uniform, I suppose.

The police at that time did nothing, so some of our larger members formed a defence group which protected Jews going to prayer. (This was happening in several communities around the country, so I heard).
Both my primary and grammar schools were Jewish schools, so I had limited exposure to non-Jews in general.(Although some of my best friends/neighbours were Christian & Catholic ..lol)

When I was 18 I went to London university(Imperial College) and was asked to chair the Jewish society there, probably because I came from a Jewish school and had a good Jewish education and could easily get speakers.
During my first year there, I was astounded to find antisemitic literature spread all over the common rooms. Much of the literature came from Arab students. I particularly remember that relatives of Iraqi & Syrian leaders were there and were very active as well as right-wingers who were overtly antisemitic.(unlike the left-wingers(including 'Jews') who were more surreptitious.

I was threatened with a gun by the chair of The UN society, a Chinese guy called Sam(@Sam -no you are not getting you gun back!!).
The staff at the university were unsupportive, including one Jewish professor.

I left for Israel, became a citizen, and stayed for 6 years, before travelling.

Later on(80s) I was back in London and joined a small group fighting racists (mainly skin-head types) with British Sikhs, Muslims.

So that was the 1980s. What is your impression now, forty years later? Do you think antisemitism is still rife in Britain?

Also, how many Arab and Syrian students were there at Imperial in the 1960s? There cannot have been many, surely?

 

[ChristineM]

Your "dossier" contains only three antisemitic remarks by people affiliated with the conservative party and on all occasions it was quickly jumped on by senior figures in the party. In two cases the individual was suspended and in the third he apologised.

So you do not have "hundreds" of antisemitic statements, you have three, (plus one further incident involving a student society.) It seems to me the paltriness of the evidence, and the evidence of the strong reaction to it, make my point for me.

There is no reason why this trivial non-story about the 19yr old should have been reported by the national press. Even the BBC only included it in their regional news section.

I said "anti-Semitic, xenophobic, and racist occurrences " so please dont misrepresent me.
There are 5 pages of them with several occurrences on each page. I can only assume you didnt read it or your filter system is turned to full.

No matter how many or how you trivialise tory anti-semitism, it nullifies your claim.

 

[Jedster]

So that was the 1980s. What is your impression now, forty years later? Do you think antisemitism is still rife in Britain?

Also, how many Arab and Syrian students were there at Imperial in the 1960s? There cannot have been many, surely?

40 years later, the population has vastly changed and the 'quality' of racism I am referring to still here. Of course I am not only meaning anti-Semitism. Jews are just one of many minority groups, so these haters have more fodder amongst Blacks, Asians & Muslims. The haters just have more people to hate.
Since 9/11 lots of the attacks against Muslims and people who the haters think are Muslims(particularly Sikhs, Asians) have increased. In actual fact, the attacks against Jews have not decreased, they just don't make the press anymore.
I am not referring to the present political issues, which the press is having a lovely time with.
Both my former Jewish primary and secondary schools have had guards since the 70s or 80s. Most synagogues have their own security watch as do Muslims and other minorities with their centres. Jewish university students are still hassled as in my time.
Many are emigrating to Israel or elsewhere because of this.
For the Jewish community, this prejudice is rife.

how many Arab and Syrian students were there at Imperial in the 1960s?
No idea. Imperial college had loads of foreign students from everywhere. Lots were children of leaders and paid lots of dosh. I have no way of knowing numbers, certainly enough to flood the common rooms with anti-Jewish literature.

 

[exchemist]

I said "anti-Semitic, xenophobic, and racist occurrences " so please dont misrepresent me.
There are 5 pages of them with several occurrences on each page. I can only assume you didnt read it or your filter system is turned to full.

No matter how many or how you trivialise tory anti-semitism, it nullifies your claim.

Can you find more than three in that document - or four if you count the student society?

I see:
- a 2016 case from Bradford, an Abdul Zaman, suspended;
- a 2015 Derby case, a Ms Afsar, suspended;
- a 2015 case from Bishops' Stortford, for which an apology was obtained, by a Conservative MP called Halfon who is in fact Jewish himself (one of many in the conservative party);
- some unspecified remarks attributed to a self-styled conservative student society, at University College London.

Can you give some details of these other cases that I have missed?

 

[exchemist]

40 years later, the population has vastly changed and the 'quality' of racism I am referring to still here. Of course I am not only meaning anti-Semitism. Jews are just one of many minority groups, so these haters have more fodder amongst Blacks, Asians & Muslims. The haters just have more people to hate.
Since 9/11 lots of the attacks against Muslims and people who the haters think are Muslims(particularly Sikhs, Asians) have increased. In actual fact, the attacks against Jews have not decreased, they just don't make the press anymore.
I am not referring to the present political issues, which the press is having a lovely time with.
Both my former Jewish primary and secondary schools have had guards since the 70s or 80s. Most synagogues have their own security watch as do Muslims and other minorities with their centres. Jewish university students are still hassled as in my time.
Many are emigrating to Israel or elsewhere because of this.
For the Jewish community, this prejudice is rife.

how many Arab and Syrian students were there at Imperial in the 1960s?
No idea. Imperial college had loads of foreign students from everywhere. Lots were children of leaders and paid lots of dosh. I have no way of knowing numbers, certainly enough to flood the common rooms with anti-Jewish literature.

Well that is interesting. Who is hassling Jewish students these days, then and why? I could sort of understand if it was political islamists, given their animosity towards Israel, but are there also other groups that are a problem?

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

( EDITED FOR GRAMMAR AT 8:17 PM SAT)

I float more like a holstein, & sting like a guernsey.

Your style is pleasantly disarming.....

Israel should make some foreign policy changes...something more peaceful.

I only unconditionally support the spiritual part of Israel decreed and respect the covenant where God promised Israel to the Jewish people and the other lands to the Arabs. ( I am being intentionally brief in these descriptions etc for some clarity, hopefully!) The corporal, physical body of Israel is where their law and military guidelines are created is mans handiwork, not God's. So yes, I agree that there are times when the IDF and other types of security are quite brutal, even criminal while doing their 'job'. But criminal acts are the exception rather the rule. Those office etc should be weeded out immediately. Brutality is ethically and morally wrong especially when the perpetrators are armed and sworn to protect THE PEOPLE. Unless they fear for their life officers of the law and the military etc have a sworn duty to use restraint when arresting or detaining anyone. I hope the USA by moving its embassy into Israel and having a 'strong man' as president will tone down the violence on both sides. Then again rouge Israeli or terrorist leaders might find the latter an even more enticing chance to violate the law of the land.

 

[ChristineM]

Can you find more than three in that document - or four if you count the student society?

I see:
- a 2016 case from Bradford, an Abdul Zaman, suspended;
- a 2015 Derby case, a Ms Afsar, suspended;
- a 2015 case from Bishops' Stortford, for which an apology was obtained, by a Conservative MP called Halfon who is in fact Jewish himself (one of many in the conservative party);
- some unspecified remarks attributed to a self-styled conservative student society, at University College London.

Can you give some details of these other cases that I have missed?

What is so difficult about the phrase "anti-Semitic, xenophobic, and racist occurrences "

And even if it were only one it would disprove your claim

 

[Jedster]

Well that is interesting. Who is hassling Jewish students these days, then and why? I could sort of understand if it was political islamists, given their animosity towards Israel, but are there also other groups that are a problem?

By no means, is it just Islamists.
I know of several cases personally, I don't need more than that.
Try googling "UK Jewish students attacked".

 

[exchemist]

What is so difficult about the phrase "anti-Semitic, xenophobic, and racist occurrences "

And even if it were only one it would disprove your claim

Ah, so do you agree your document has only 3 or 4 instances, then, as I have been maintaining?

 

[ChristineM]

Ah, so do you agree your document has only 3 or 4 instances, then, as I have been maintaining?

You can read what i have been saying all along. If you misrepresented or misunderstood my words that is hardly my ptoblem

 

[Revoltingest]

( EDITED FOR GRAMMAR AT 8:17 PM SAT)




Your style is pleasantly disarming.....



I only unconditionally support the spiritual part of Israel decreed and respect the covenant where God promised Israel to the Jewish people and the other lands to the Arabs. ( I am being intentionally brief in these descriptions etc for some clarity, hopefully!) The corporal, physical body of Israel is where their law and military guidelines are created is mans handiwork, not God's. So yes, I agree that there are times when the IDF and other types of security are quite brutal, even criminal while doing their 'job'. But criminal acts are the exception rather the rule. Those office etc should be weeded out immediately. Brutality is ethically and morally wrong especially when the perpetrators are armed and sworn to protect THE PEOPLE. Unless they fear for their life officers of the law and the military etc have a sworn duty to use restraint when arresting or detaining anyone. I hope the USA by moving its embassy into Israel and having a 'strong man' as president will tone down the violence on both sides. Then again rouge Israeli or terrorist leaders might find the latter an even more enticing chance to violate the law of the land.

I expect the current President to exacerbate violence.

 

[exchemist]

You can read what i have been saying all along. If you misrepresented or misunderstood my words that is hardly my ptoblem

I read that you accuse me of not reading your links and of having some sort of "filter" so that I do not see (or do not choose to see?) all the supposed cases of antisemitism in your "dossier". Yet on being challenged, you cannot point to any examples I have missed or ignored. It rather looks as if it is you that doesn't read the material you yourself cite in evidence. I only labour the point because, like many people, I am reluctant to let a false accusation of laziness or dishonesty pass without challenge.

But enough.

 

[ChristineM]

I read that you accuse me of not reading your links and of having some sort of "filter" so that I do not see (or do not choose to see?) all the supposed cases of antisemitism in your "dossier". Yet on being challenged, you cannot point to any examples I have missed or ignored. It rather looks as if it is you that doesn't read the material you yourself cite in evidence. I only labour the point because, like many people, I am reluctant to let a false accusation of laziness or dishonesty pass without challenge.

But enough.

I pointed to what i actually said. And that however many instances, any more than zero disproves your claim. For some reason you seem unwilling to acknowledge that fact and instead you repeatedly attack me with semantics for proving you wrong.

Yes, enough

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I didn't put this in the Jewish Forums because I want to hear from everyone.

In BBC, I was surprised to see the article that states things are so bad for Jews there, that some are considering leaving? This is very surprising.

Correction: CNN has the story.

I follow closely what is going on with Jews in the world. The truth is that things are bad for Jews all over Europe, but especially bad in the UK, France, Germany, and Sweden. Jews have been emigrating for a while now, especially from France.

People don't get it. Things are as bad many places as 1939. Jews are being accosted in the streets, even violently attacked. Some places such as France we are being killed. The police and other authorities look the other way. There are political parties that consider us a "problem."

As I said, the problem in the UK is particularly bad. Your police look the other way when Jews are accosted. Your Labour party is virulently anti-Semitic and no one cares. Israeli news says that right now one in three Jews is thinking of leaving the UK. If Labour is elected to power, you will see a mass exodus of Jews from the UK, it will make the emigration that is happening now seem insignificant. We simply don't have the leisure of staying.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What is for sure is that there is no general undercurrent of antisemitism in Britain. There certainly is an undercurrent of criticism of Israel, but that is hardly surprising, given Israel's current politics.

When there is a double standard, when Syria is committing war crimes by gassing its enemies, but it is Israel that is condemned by the Security Council, that IS anti-Semitism. There should be ONE standard of behavior for every nation, including the Palestinians.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I follow closely what is going on with Jews in the world. The truth is that things are bad for Jews all over Europe, but especially bad in the UK, France, Germany, and Sweden. Jews have been emigrating for a while now, especially from France.

People don't get it. Things are as bad many places as 1939. Jews are being accosted in the streets, even violently attacked. Some places such as France we are being killed. The police and other authorities look the other way. There are political parties that consider us a "problem."

As I said, the problem in the UK is particularly bad. Your police look the other way when Jews are accosted. Your Labour party is virulently anti-Semitic and no one cares. Israeli news says that right now one in three Jews is thinking of leaving the UK. If Labour is elected to power, you will see a mass exodus of Jews from the UK, it will make the emigration that is happening now seem insignificant. We simply don't have the leisure of staying.

Not excusing the bad treatment of Jews, save to say that perhaps some Jews could make more effort to be kind to non-Jews?

 

[rosends]

Not excusing the bad treatment of Jews, save to say that perhaps some Jews could make more effort to be kind to non-Jews?

Some people could make more effort to be kind to other people. When any statement is made specifically towards one group (or individuals identified by their membership in that group) we encourage division. If we see that a statement is relevant or appropriate only to one group then we are being led by our suppositions.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Some people could make more effort to be kind to other people. When any statement is made specifically towards one group (or individuals identified by their membership in that group) we encourage division. If we see that a statement is relevant or appropriate only to one group then we are being led by our suppositions.

Yeah, what ever. I've met some very kind ones, but mostly we remember the bad experiences. I'm not supposing a thing. I'll let your G_d deal with it.

 

[rocala]

As I said, the problem in the UK is particularly bad. Your police look the other way when Jews are accosted. Your Labour party is virulently anti-Semitic and no one cares. Israeli news says that right now one in three Jews is thinking of leaving the UK. If Labour is elected to power, you will see a mass exodus of Jews from the UK, it will make the emigration that is happening now seem insignificant. We simply don't have the leisure of staying.

I find this extremely hard to believe.