Ask a Mormon! (Part Two)

[Comprehend]

I do. But even more than that, I feel that we too often think of obedience to the Word of Wisdom as a definition of a "good Mormon." While I think it's an important commandment, it's a "word of wisdom" concerning how we should care for our bodies. It's not "the gospel of Jesus Christ." The president of the company I work for is SOOOO proud that, "never has a drop of alcohol touched my lips," and yet he is one of the most self-serving, hypocritical, dishonest Latter-day Saints I have ever known. In my own personal opinion, God has less of a problem with someone who has an occasional glass of wine than He has with someone who would cheat his customers. I'm not saying it has to be an either/or situation, but I do think that sometimes we put our priorities in the wrong place.

I think we are supposed to obey all of the commandments. Why is the WoW different? Seems to me that lack of self control would be a better explanation...

 

[Katzpur]

I think we are supposed to obey all of the commandments.

Uh... yeah, I think we are.

Why is the WoW different?

Did somebody say it was? I think that at least part of what Nutshell was alluding to is that the World of Wisdom is seen as pretty cut and dried. No alcohol or tobacco. No tea or coffee. When someone asks you if you live the Word of Wisdom, do you think, "Well, I don't really eat as many whole grains or as much fresh fruit as I should, and I am a regular carnivore. I'd eat steak every night of the week if I could afford it"? When I see a morbidly obese person in the temple, I ask myself, "Does he really think he is living the Word of Wisdom?" Obviously, he must or he wouldn't have a temple recommend. The Word of Wisdom is supposed to be a guide for how to care for our bodies. But when it comes to living it, how many people are really in tune to the message? How many live the letter of this law while ignoring the spirit of it?

Seems to me that lack of self control would be a better explanation...

Seems to me as if that's an over-simplification, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Comprehend]

Uh... yeah, I think we are.

Did somebody say it was?

I don't know, I can't figure out what Nutshell is getting at...

I think that at least part of what Nutshell was alluding to is that the World of Wisdom is seen as pretty cut and dried. No alcohol or tobacco. No tea or coffee. When someone asks you if you live the Word of Wisdom, do you think, "Well, I don't really eat as many whole grains or as much fresh fruit as I should, and I am a regular carnivore. I'd eat steak every night of the week if I could afford it"? When I see a morbidly obese person in the temple, I ask myself, "Does he really think he is living the Word of Wisdom?" Obviously, he must or he wouldn't have a temple recommend. The Word of Wisdom is supposed to be a guide for how to care for our bodies. But when it comes to living it, how many people are really in tune to the message? How many live the letter of this law while ignoring the spirit of it?

I agree that the focus is almost entirely on the "do not" rather than the "do" for most LDS. That just means they haven't actually spent 5 minutes to read it and think about it though. I still don't see how it *causes* people to indulge in other things, I would rather blame it on the person than the commandment as I believe we are all free agents.

I thought nutshell was saying that the wow was overly restrictive and thus drove people to *make up for it* in other ways... I didn't get what you got out of it at all.

I agree that a LOT of LDS do not really get what the WOW is all about and that they ignore the spirit of the law... I didn't think that was what nutshell was talking about...

 

[Katzpur]

I still don't see how it *causes* people to indulge in other things, I would rather blame it on the person than the commandment as I believe we are all free agents.

I thought nutshell was saying that the wow was overly restrictive and thus drove people to *make up for it* in other ways... I didn't get what you got out of it at all.

I agree that a LOT of LDS do not really get what the WOW is all about and that they ignore the spirit of the law... I didn't think that was what nutshell was talking about...

Well, maybe he wasn't. I guess my answer was kind of off target actually, but what I was thinking, and the way I was trying to tie my response back to his question was that I think a lot of people seem to think that anything is fair game as long as it's not strictly prohibited by the Word of Wisdom. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I have read that Utahns are above the national average in terms of obesity. If that it the case, I'm thinking that it might mean that Latter-day Saints tend to drown their troubles with Rocky Road ice cream instead of with a few drinks after work. I have nothing to back that up with, by the way. It's just my own hunch.

 

[Comprehend]

Well, maybe he wasn't. I guess my answer was kind of off target actually, but what I was thinking, and the way I was trying to tie my response back to his question was that I think a lot of people seem to think that anything is fair game as long as it's not strictly prohibited by the Word of Wisdom. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I have read that Utahns are above the national average in terms of obesity. If that it the case, I'm thinking that it might mean that Latter-day Saints tend to drown their troubles with Rocky Road ice cream instead of with a few drinks after work. I have nothing to back that up with, by the way. It's just my own hunch.

ok. I understand that, and I would agree with you too. Many people miss the fact that we are told to be moderate with our food, keep our bodies and minds in good shape, etc. Of course all of that does happen to be in the D&C so they need to pull their face out of the bucket of Ice Cream and start reading... I guess we all have our weak spots and some are more visible than others.

 

[Gentoo]

I'm back here with new questions! Jonny's thread got me thinking (and that can be dangerous )

What is expected of mothers as compared with childless married women? Like, a girl goes to college, meets Mr. Right, they get married and they have a child or two. Is she supposed to stay home? Or can she either still work while they're young or go back to work when they're old enough/in school? Whereas the married childliess woman can get a job and they can have a two income household.

 

[Bishka]

I'm back here with new questions! Jonny's thread got me thinking (and that can be dangerous )

What is expected of mothers as compared with childless married women? Like, a girl goes to college, meets Mr. Right, they get married and they have a child or two. Is she supposed to stay home? Or can she either still work while they're young or go back to work when they're old enough/in school? Whereas the married childliess woman can get a job and they can have a two income household.

That she is just a good mother and wife really. The prophets encourage mothers to stay home with their children if at all possible. They understand that there are situations that require the mother to be out of the home, but they emphasize that being a mother is one of the most important things.

Does that help a bit?

 

[Gentoo]

That she is just a good mother and wife really. The prophets encourage mothers to stay home with their children if at all possible. They understand that there are situations that require the mother to be out of the home, but they emphasize that being a mother is one of the most important things.

Does that help a bit?

Okay, so it's not a strict "You MUST stay home" but a "we'd LIKE you to". Can the husband stay home instead?

 

[Bishka]

Okay, so it's not a strict "You MUST stay home" but a "we'd LIKE you to". Can the husband stay home instead?

They very much encourage the women to stay at home, the husband could, but they encourage the husband to be the breadwinner and moneymaker. That is usually his responsibility unless something happens to him. We are usually pretty tradidional in the roles of the husband and wife.

 

[Katzpur]

Okay, so it's not a strict "You MUST stay home" but a "we'd LIKE you to". Can the husband stay home instead?

There really are no "MUSTS" in Mormonism, but there are clearly many "we'd LIKE you tos." Here is the most "official" statement I am aware of on the subject. It's from The Family: A Proclamation to the World.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

 

[DeepShadow]

Note that the firm guideline of women staying home is just that, a firm guideline, as opposed to a commandment. The exact details of one's own house should be determined by discussion between parents and heartfelt prayer. One family's experiences were given in a phenomenal Ensign article, summarized on the church website as follows:

After years of preparing for the fast track to corporate success, one woman traded the possibility of a corporate office suite for bandaging “owies,” encouraging piano practice, and picking up toys. In “Mother, Come Home,” she shares her experiences as she came to learn what the Lord—in this instance—would have her do.

If you read the article, you'll see that this young woman actually worked to put her husband through school, and that the couple prayed and discussed every financial crossroads together. Even in the summary, there is the parenthetical comment that this is what the Lord wanted in this instance.

 

[Gentoo]

Hmm... I understand the reasoning behind it all, and I can see it doing a lot of good honestly. But I personally don't agree. But to each their own, right?

 

[Katzpur]

Hmm... I understand the reasoning behind it all, and I can see it doing a lot of good honestly. But I personally don't agree. But to each their own, right?

Sure, to each his own sounds good to me. I was actually a working mom, Gentoo. Until my kids were about 11 and 14 years of age, though, I worked part-time -- about 6 hours a day. A much as possible, I tried to be at home when they were and to give them quality time when I was there. I also made it clear to my employers that I wasn't interested in the job unless there would be some degree of flexibility. I was a room mother for years, a parent volunteer in the classroom and on field trips, etc. So my kids hopefully knew that I was there for them. I will admit that I pretty much worked outside the home by choice, though. There were a lot of times when I felt guilty, but for the most part, I feel my decision was a wise one.

 

[Gentoo]

Sure, to each his own sounds good to me. I was actually a working mom, Gentoo. Until my kids were about 11 and 14 years of age, though, I worked part-time -- about 6 hours a day. A much as possible, I tried to be at home when they were and to give them quality time when I was there. I also made it clear to my employers that I wasn't interested in the job unless there would be some degree of flexibility. I was a room mother for years, a parent volunteer in the classroom and on field trips, etc. So my kids hopefully knew that I was there for them. I will admit that I pretty much worked outside the home by choice, though. There were a lot of times when I felt guilty, but for the most part, I feel my decision was a wise one.

I'm glad there is some flexibility with working moms, especially by a case by case basis. I say that I don't agree because I don't want to stay home if I have kids. I'd go stir crazy, and would come to resent it if it were expected of me. But I do think that it is important to have at least one parent home when the kids are home, if possible.

 

[Katzpur]

I say that I don't agree because I don't want to stay home if I have kids. I'd go stir crazy, and would come to resent it if it were expected of me.

Yes, that is exactly how I felt. I did want kids, and I found that working full-time (which I did for just three months after my first was born) was not a good idea. I was exhausted all of the time and couldn't enjoy my little boy even when I was home. But I needed my career. Some people were judgmental of me, but I felt that I wouldn't have been a good mother if I was miserable -- which I would have been had I been home with the kids 24/7.

 

[Gentoo]

Yes, that is exactly how I felt. I did want kids, and I found that working full-time (which I did for just three months after my first was born) was not a good idea. I was exhausted all of the time and couldn't enjoy my little boy even when I was home. But I needed my career. Some people were judgmental of me, but I felt that I wouldn't have been a good mother if I was miserable -- which I would have been had I been home with the kids 24/7.

That makes me feel better on the subject thank you for answering my questions (everyone)!

 

[nutshell]

Even if Mormon moms aren't working (FYI, Mormon women have more degrees per capita than any other religion), many Mormen women tend to stay very busy. Activities range from going to school to volunteering for the PTA to participating in local theater. The idea that they just sit home and watch kids is not always right (though those people exist too).

 

[Gentoo]

Even if Mormon moms aren't working (FYI, Mormon women have more degrees per capita than any other religion), many Mormen women tend to stay very busy. Activities range from going to school to volunteering for the PTA to participating in local theater. The idea that they just sit home and watch kids is not always right (though those people exist too).

I wasn't trying to imply that, but I can't say that I really know it yet since I don't have any kids. I know they're a lot of work, fun and stressful (I heard somewhere that a stay-at-home mom does the equivilent of two full-time jobs) but I just won't know it on a personal level until I experience it.

 

[FFH]

Here's a question:

Do you believe the strict "codes" we live by (such as the Word of Wisdom) lead us to indulge in other areas or ways that are not healthy for us?

Licorice tastes great

You lost me

I know was indirectly addressing the issue you brought up.

I know exaclly what you're talking about Nutshell, I was trying to avoid the issue until I gathered my thoughts together...

Here's my thoughts on this...

If I were to drink, smoke, do illegal drugs, I'm probably 10 times more likely to indulge in negative behaviors than if I avoided these toxic and spirit numbing substances...

Let me put it another way....

We all indulge in negative behaviors of all kinds, it may be slightly different for each individual, the difference is we know when to say when/stop because we are sober, verses not being in our right minds, because of harmful chemical substances, in the body, like alcohol and meth...

It's 10 times more easy to stay on track, even though we may indulge in bad/negative behaviors, as we all do....

We should not kid ourselves, on one end of the pendulum, or beat ourselves up, on the other...

Sin is sin, and we all succumb to it, in one form or another...

The Word of Wisdom keeps our minds and hearts alert to the pitfalls of negative behaviors, and we are more likely to "catch" ourselves before we are "speedily dragged down to hell" ....

The Spirit can, and does, influence us more than if we were to numb our spiritual senses, with all forms of harmful chemical substances...

Do we indulge in certain sins because we cannot drink, do drugs, etc.???.

No, those are only results of having sinned, I think, because those who do them indulge in them to numb their consciences, to thw point to which they then further indulge in more and more serious negative behaviors....

I can honestly say that I don't know the reason why people indulge in these vices, other than what I have theorized...

My weakness has never been in this area...

The "weakest of saints" can adapt to living the Word of Wisdom...it's no big deal and not being able to indulge in drinking and drugs, is definitely not the reason why an LDS member may indulge in more serious sins..., but rather keeps one more spiritually alert and aware of the dangers of teading into, or too deeply into "dirty waters".

I personally don't sin in other areas because I can't drink or smoke, it's not appealing to me at all, even in the slightest, for some reason...

What we think are serios sins are nothing compared to those who indulge putting various harmful chemical substances in their bodies...

I have an LDS friend who used to sell drugs and he could tell who was hooked on drugs because there was usually an aura of demons around that individual, which he could see in the spiritual realm, because he too was hooked on illegal drugs...

He changed his life after being instantly delivered from drugs, alcohol, smokes, etc...after listening to Book of Mormon tapes In his car over and over while delivering pizzas....

I was doing the same and he asked me to pick up a set of tapes for him at the LDS Distribution Center, and it changed his life...

He came from an extremely disfunctional LDS background, but now he has a very succesful business and he doesn't miss the drugs and drinking...

 

[athanasius]

Here is a honest question I always wandered. Mormons have priest. Yet how I understand it, Mormon worship does not contain any sacrifice. But priesthood by nature always is always tied to sacrifice, especially in worship. We Catholics also have priest, but we have the sacrifice of Holy Mass as our worship. If Mormons do not have worship that entails sacrifice, why have a priesthood at all for their leaders? Why not just have Ministers or reverends like the protestants do? What would be the point of a priesthood with no or sacrifice to offer??? Just curios.

Thank you for your time and God bless you,
In Christ the King through Mary the Queen Mother,
Athanasius