Are Religions and Gods manmade?

[mikkel_the_dane]

So just your belief.
I can cite the instances where science has proven religions wrong.

Yes, and therefore I can't believe in one them. Yet I do so. So there is a limit to that version of wrong.

 

[firedragon]

Ever since Man started to leave evidence of his existence other than his bones he has left artefacts that can be inteptetated as religious.

From ancient carvings to wall paintings.

Later as we became better at creating artefacts, monuments and buildings the evidence is overwhelming. Men were creating religions and gods.

So are modern religions more creations of Man. Or did gods wait 200,000 years to reveal itself to Man?

The evidence is that man had religions. Not that they were creating. The valid assumption is that they were interpreting religion in their expressions, be it rituals or artefacts and art.

 

[firedragon]

The oldest evidenced religion is Hinduism at around 15000 years

What are you referring to?

 

[Trailblazer]

There is more evidence they are false.

Present it then.

 

[Trailblazer]

So everyone has to follow what your messenger says. Now prove your messenger is the only real one.

He was not the only real one. There have been many other real Messengers throughout the course of history.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The evidence is that man had religions. Not that they were creating. The valid assumption is that they were interpreting religion in their expressions, be it rituals or artefacts and art.

Present it then.

 

[Trailblazer]

So some are made up by Man and some are not. How do we know you're not following one made up by Man? You believing isn't good enough for everyone.

The way people know is by doing their own independent investigation of the religion I follow. That is the only way they can know for themselves.

Of course my believing is not good enough, and it shouldn't be good enough, because people can believe all kinds of things that are not true.

 

[Trailblazer]

So prove your messenger is the real one. Just saying "I believe" can't convince everyone.

I believe my Messenger is one of the real Messengers but I cannot prove that to anyone except myself.

All I can do is present what convinced me, but that will not necessarily convince anyone else, and it probably won't convince anyone, unless they think like I do.

 

[Trailblazer]

And there is the problem and for conmen an open opportunity.

That's true, but you do not have to be conned if you follow the instructions of Jesus and look at their fruits.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: FRUIT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

 

[Trailblazer]

With so many false religions, different religions, different gods, messengers, etc which one are we to follow?

That is for you to determine by looking at the claimants.

Revealing it to one at a time has caused so much war, confusion, genocide, destruction, etc. Is that gods aim?

I doubt that was God's aim, but God gave man free will so that is what happened.

Or is there no god and just a lot of charlatans trying to con us?

There are a lot of charlatans but that does not mean there is no God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Here's the flaw in your debate.

Atheist have science, history, archaeologist and100,000s of scientists with proof to back them up. You have mythology, superstition and loads of shaman to back you up.

That might be a flaw if all I had was mythology, superstition and loads of shaman to back me up.

I also have proof, although it is not the proof you want.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Present it then.

Biblical scientific errors - RationalWiki

50,000 Errors and Biblical contradictions

The Problem of the Bible: Inaccuracies, contradictions, fallacies, scientific issues and more. | News24

Yes, there is a war between science and religion

Evolution myths: The theory is wrong because the Bible is 'inerrant'

Some Reasons Why Humanists Reject The Bible - American Humanist Association go down to
Contradictions

Humanists Challenge the Bible - Answers to Their Questions and Accusations

A Brief Summary of Why the Bible Is Unreliable

Some Reasons Why Humanists Reject The Bible

That should keep you busy for a while. Jusy Googled "Bible contradicts science" and "Bible contradicts itself"

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The way people know is by doing their own independent investigation of the religion I follow. That is the only way they can know for themselves.

Of course my believing is not good enough, and it shouldn't be good enough, because people can believe all kinds of things that are not true.

Do you think I started out being an atheist? I was attending church regularly, in a Christian family, learn about religion in school. It was later when I learned about science that I saw the truth. That god didn't create the Earth and all in it, evolution did and it's still changing.
Moses Myth
Adam Myth
Noah Myth
Abraham Myth
Sodom and Gomorrah real places but god didn't destroy them.
Job Myth
Egypt plagues = volcano eruption.
Wall os Jericho = earthquakes.
Jesus, no Son of god. A son of god would convince his critics and get off the cross.
A god wouldn't waste his time talking to nobodies in nobody tribes. He would go to the leaders of empires.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That's true, but you do not have to be conned if you follow the instructions of Jesus and look at their fruits.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: FRUIT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Some or even most of what Jesus preached, or we are told he preached, is good. Beware of false prophets is great advice and I follow it. So far all have failed to convince me. For reasons I gave in my previous posts.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That is for you to determine by looking at the claimants.

I doubt that was God's aim, but God gave man free will so that is what happened.

There are a lot of charlatans but that does not mean there is no God.

No god that's written about. Of that, I'm certain because all the prophets get carried away with themself and end up spouting nonsense. They contradict each other, come up with crazy notions, con people, etc.

As I said in another thread. If there is a god this is what it wants. Because it has left us in a mess over religion for 1,000s of years. And you have no answer to that. Other than "I can't tell you what god wants!!!!"

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That might be a flaw if all I had was mythology, superstition and loads of shaman to back me up.

I also have proof, although it is not the proof you want.

For 3,000 plus years it's been accepted that gods created the world and all the other nonsense. It's only recently we learned about Evolution, Archaeology, in-depth Science and the movement of people who don't believe word for word in what bibles say is growing.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

He was not the only real one. There have been many other real Messengers throughout the course of history.

Prove some of the other ones.

 

[Trailblazer]

Biblical scientific errors - RationalWiki

50,000 Errors and Biblical contradictions

The Problem of the Bible: Inaccuracies, contradictions, fallacies, scientific issues and more. | News24

Yes, there is a war between science and religion

Evolution myths: The theory is wrong because the Bible is 'inerrant'

Some Reasons Why Humanists Reject The Bible - American Humanist Association go down to
Contradictions

Humanists Challenge the Bible - Answers to Their Questions and Accusations

A Brief Summary of Why the Bible Is Unreliable

Some Reasons Why Humanists Reject The Bible

That should keep you busy for a while. Just Googled "Bible contradicts science" and "Bible contradicts itself"

Referring to religions,

Trailblazer said: I believe that some are real and some are not and of the real ones many offshoots came into being. So that means I believe that religions other than my religion are real. I cannot prove that, but there is evidence that indicates it is true.

Paul said: There is more evidence they are false.

I know that the Bible contradicts itself, but how is that evidence that religions I believe are true are false?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you think I started out being an atheist? I was attending church regularly, in a Christian family, learn about religion in school. It was later when I learned about science that I saw the truth. That god didn't create the Earth and all in it, evolution did and it's still changing.
Moses Myth
Adam Myth
Noah Myth
Abraham Myth
Sodom and Gomorrah real places but god didn't destroy them.
Job Myth
Egypt plagues = volcano eruption.
Wall os Jericho = earthquakes.
Jesus, no Son of god. A son of god would convince his critics and get off the cross.
A god wouldn't waste his time talking to nobodies in nobody tribes. He would go to the leaders of empires.

Thanks for sharing your background. It helps me better understand where you are at.

I was not raised as a Christian or in any religion, and I did not believe in God before I became a Baha'i at age 17, at least not that I cam remember. I feel very fortunate that I was not raised Christian because I might never have become a Baha'i if I had been; and I if I did, I would have to unlearn all the teachings of Christianity I consider false, including the literal interpretation of the Bible stories such as Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden and everything being created in six days.

But the other advantage of not being raised as a Christian is that I can now read the Bible and understand it according to the Baha'i Faith and I can appreciate what it has to offer, all the wonderful parables and teachings of Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

No god that's written about. Of that, I'm certain because all the prophets get carried away with themself and end up spouting nonsense. They contradict each other, come up with crazy notions, con people, etc.

As I said in another thread. If there is a god this is what it wants. Because it has left us in a mess over religion for 1,000s of years. And you have no answer to that. Other than "I can't tell you what god wants!!!!"

That's right. I do not have access to the Mind of God, so I do not know what God wants...
All I can do is conjecture based upon what I read and see in the world.