Are Religions and Gods manmade?

[Trailblazer]

Ha, he has no more testimony than any other cult leader wannabes. No matter how many times he falsely claims he has. That's a ridiculous standard. "He wrote it down" so it MUST be "true", seriously?

I already told you that Baha'u'llah's testimony is not evidence or proof. I never said He wrote it down so it must be true. That would be ridiculous since anyone can write anything down. However, the same applies to you. You experienced something and then testified of it so it must be true does not cut the mustard. You need more than that.

On the other hand "I" have all the proof that "I" need. Which will stand against your mythology any and every day, so bash away!

You have all the proof you need for yourself but you cannot expect that will be proof to anyone else unless you have evidence to back up your claims.

I have no interest in debating with you over what you have vs. what Baha'u'llah revealed. I have no need to prove anything to you or to anyone else. People can do their own investigation if they are interested.and decide for themselves. That is why we have a brain and free will.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Bad choice of words on my part. So I edited it to read:

"The belief in a God, a "higher power", a "creator", etc... is universal to people of all times."

That aside, your example is flawed. Because Jesus is not God. So just because these people don't believe in Jesus, doesn't mean they don't believe in a "God", Supreme Being, Creator, Higher Power, etc. As there is no mention of what "attributes these "spirits" are suppose to represent.

Flawed, when it was stated that they had no concept of God? I amended the original, if you hadn't noticed, to quote the relevant bit. And it still remains that we can't know (for sure) that all societies or groups had such.

Like my own personal experience during my childhood NDE/OBE when I met God, that was imparted to me that he was the all powerful creator and ruler of everything. I was just a toddler, and this happened W-A-Y before I even knew anything about the concept of God. There are just too many accounts like that to discount.

You might trust your experience as a child - many, including me, wouldn't. In fact I'd be very much more suspicious of anything I experienced as a child, given the changes we go through and which we tend not to understand.

Not sure what this is suppose to prove or disprove.

Not meant to prove or disprove anything. Just that were there no other options available to impart belief (so many different and contradictory ones) that didn't cause so much friction and deaths - and which can hardly be laughed off? But perhaps indicating more that they simply were the products of human imagination rather than coming from some divine source.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That is not what I said.
I said: I believe that some are real and some are not and of the real ones many offshoots came into being.
So that means I believe that religions other than my religion are real.

I cannot prove that, but there is evidence that indicates it is true.

There is more evidence they are false.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Ever since Man started to leave evidence of his existence other than his bones he has left artefacts that can be inteptetated as religious.

From ancient carvings to wall paintings.

Later as we became better at creating artefacts, monuments and buildings the evidence is overwhelming. Men were creating religions and gods.

So are modern religions more creations of Man. Or did gods wait 200,000 years to reveal itself to Man?

I think (and know in certain cases) that there are concepts of Gods and religions that are man made, especially when looking into modern religions. With them we can actually track their origins and development.

I certainly believe that older religions and Gods were man made but the older the get the more mysterious they become.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The basis is what my religion teaches about religion, that there are many true religions that were revealed by God, but over time men disagree about what the scriptures mean so the religions split into many different sects that have different teachings. The only way that can be prevented is if there is a written Covenant as we have in the Baha'i Faith, which prevents division from ever taking place.

Bahá’u’lláh and His Covenant

So everyone has to follow what your messenger says. Now prove your messenger is the only real one.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Maybe that is true, but who is to say that these were religions of God? They might have been religions of man.

I fully agree.

So some are made up by Man and some are not. How do we know you're not following one made up by Man? You believing isn't good enough for everyone.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The criteria I use is that any religion that was revealed by God through a Messenger is a real religion.

So prove your messenger is the real one. Just saying "I believe" can't convince everyone.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So some are made up by Man and some are not. How do we know you're not following one made up by Man? You believing isn't good enough for everyone.

Okay, one step at a time. Paraconsistent logic, what do you know of that?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The evidence is everything around us. Do you see?

So show us this evidence.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No religion can prove that it came from God because nobody can ever prove that God communicated to them.

And there is the problem and for conmen an open opportunity.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

rAnd there is the problem and for conmen an open opportunity.

Yeah, and so what? Conmen are not restricted to religion.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

God does reveal His message to everyone, but not everyone recognizes it as a message from God.

With so many false religions, different religions, different gods, messengers, etc which one are we to follow?

Revealing it to one at a time has caused so much war, confusion, genocide, destruction, etc. Is that gods aim?

Or is there no god and just a lot of charlatans trying to con us?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

With so many false religions, different religions, different gods, messengers, etc which one are we to follow?

Revealing it to one at a time has caused so much war, confusion, genocide, destruction, etc. Is that gods aim?

Or is there no god and just a lot of charlatans trying to con us?

I don't know the answer to the first part. And you are overlooking honest conmen for the second part.
In a sense I am an honest conman, because I really believe in my own con, because it works for me. That is how honest I can be.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

On the other hand "I" have all the proof that "I" need. Which will stand against your mythology any and every day, so bash away!

Theists proof is caused by evolution. Evolution was started by a mix of chemicals on Earth in the earliest times.

Atheists proof. We are a remarkable species when judged by other species. A larger brain, opposable thumbs, complicated speech, etc. But that's all down to evolution a slow process that took millions of years to develop, a god doesn't need millions of years and many tries to get it right. The world around us is constantly evolving, today's landscape bears no resemblant to the landscape millions of years ago.

Theists have no proof only belief.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yeah, and so what? Conmen are not restricted to religion.

Of course not, but people being people are just as gullible to all sorts of ideas (especially where they feel a need to be filled), and all too often the conman (or woman) knows this. Which is why we have examples like Trump as well as all the cult leaders who no doubt made enough money before moving on to some other scam - or in the case of Jones, died along with his victims.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I don't know the answer to the first part. And you are overlooking honest conmen for the second part.
In a sense I am an honest conman, because I really believe in my own con, because it works for me. That is how honest I can be.

No one is saying religion doesn't work for some people. I get my strength from my family, dogs, friends, etc and don't need a religion to give me anything. Others clearly do.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Theists proof is caused by evolution. Evolution was started by a mix of chemicals on Earth in the earliest times.

Atheists proof. We are a remarkable species when judged by other species. A larger brain, opposable thumbs, complicated speech, etc. But that's all down to evolution a slow process that took millions of years to develop, a god doesn't need millions of years and many tries to get it right. The world around us is constantly evolving, today's landscape bears no resemblant to the landscape millions of years ago.

Theists have no proof only belief.

That is without objective proof or evidence. That is what you believe and then claim we must all believe like you do. You believe you can speak for an universal "we". You can't and neither can I. I am honest about that. But you apparently can't see your own subjective belief in that "we".

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No one is saying religion doesn't work for some people. I get my strength from my family, dogs, friends, etc and don't need a religion to give me anything. Others clearly do.

Yeah, you believe in a "we" that isn't there, unless you believe in it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Of course not, but people being people are just as gullible to all sorts of ideas (especially where they feel a need to be filled), and all too often the conman (or woman) knows this. Which is why we have examples like Trump as well as all the cult leaders who no doubt made enough money before moving on to some other scam - or in the case of Jones, died along with his victims.

But that is never the case of the true non-religious people, right? It is always everybody else, which are the gullible ones, right?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That is without objective proof or evidence. That is what you believe and then claim we must all believe like you do. You believe you can speak for an universal "we". You can't and neither can I. I am honest about that. But you apparently can't see your own subjective belief in that "we".

We are a remarkable species when judges against other species.

Get the whole quote.