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Featured Are babies, "enemies of God" in your faith tradition?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by danieldemol, Aug 6, 2022.

  1. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Definitely not

    Bad company had big impact (KGB...Putin)
     
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  2. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

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    Except we have another possible choice.
    (I have to add IMO, it's the law!)

    If we confess our sins to God through Jesus we can be pardoned and not damned after all. Seems like a sweet deal to me!
     
  3. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    This is so unbelievably sad. What is he teaching people? Without a commentator pointing to the truth, how many would believe and follow this stuff? It is good to bring this stuff to show religion doesn't reflect God. It reflects mankind more than anything else.

    In reality, we are all babies. We are all children of God. Does anyone really think God sees any of us as enemies?? God is at a Higher Level. Would God really create enemies or label a child as an enemy? This will never happen simply because that would not be an Intelligent choice to make.

    We all have the power to choose what we deem important. What does it say about a person who can only see evil in others, especially in babies??? Clearly, we all need to point this person in the right direction toward Unconditional Love.

    Did you know that you can see God's reflection? If you look at the very youngest of children, you can see God's reflection. You see, they have just left God's arms and you can see the Unconditional Love in them.

    Yes,this physical world has so much sensory input that it isn't long the kiddies start making their own choices. This is not evil. This is just a part of the learning process. Life is about learning and growing.

    We are Living our Lessons. We will all walk toward perfection regardless of the views of others. On the other hand, interaction is part of the learning process. Those around you really do need you to lead them forward. You might even learn for yourself in the process.

    That's what I see. It's very clear!!
     
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  4. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    Make sure you get the timing right.
     
  5. DNB

    DNB Christian

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    Well Daniel, as the commentator stated, primarily it was a theological point that Lett was attempting to underscore - as you may be aware, fallen nature, total depravity, T.U.L.I.P. are common tenets in the Christian religion. So, he hasn't entirely lost his marbles, ...at least not from the comments he made in the few excerpts revealed in the video - although he was leaning towards a desperate and imbalanced approach to make his point.
    I am a Christian, and do not except the doctrine of Total Depravity or fallen Nature - there is good and bad in all men from birth, and in different degrees depending on the person. In other words, I think that anyone who holds to such views are incorrect in their exegesis, and in some cases, completely off their rocker - Stephen Lett came off as a little bit looney both in his rationale and in his demeanor. I imagine, if I become more aware of his other convictions that I would consider him to be a radical and irrational exegete.
     
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  6. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    No, because:

    Most assuredly I tell you, unless you turn, and become as little children, you will in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
    Matt. 18:3

    “Allow the little children, and don’t forbid them to come to me; for to such belongs the Kingdom of Heaven.”
    Matt. 19:14

    and said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” Jesus said to them, “Yes. Did you never read, ‘Out of the mouth of babes and nursing babies you have perfected praise?’”
    Matt. 21:16

    but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.
    Matt. 18:6
     
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  7. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't work like that. Salvation can't be lost like losing your keys.
     
  8. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    The only one who has never sinned is the only one who came from heaven, Jesus.
     
  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Anyway, your question was not answered satisfactorily.

    I am a Muslim as you know it. In Islamic theology a child is not born as an enemy or in sin or anything like that.

    There was a story in the hadith that speaks of every child being touched by the devil but there are debates about it since day one of discourse particularly about that specific story. The English translation maybe devil, but the arabic word is Shayaathieena which means rebellion or rebellious deviation. Also the story can fall into a category of israeliaath.

    Nevertheless, the Islamic idea about children is that they are born with an innate affinity to believe in a metaphysical being like God. They are born with a Fithra. Children are born with an objective moral compass. They're born pure, without blemish, to be loved and cherished. Enjoyed and valued.

    I am sure all human beings are like that. I am just stating the Islamic position on babies.
     
    #69 firedragon, Aug 7, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    But that's not original sin is it? Is that a different type of theology you follow?
     
  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    You do realize how incredibly arrogant and condescending this statement is, yes?
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    No. I say that because I had already responded to the OP, and I did not answer his question in the previous post.
     
  13. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    Thank you for the elaboration. Since you didn't specify by whom, it could be concluded that the question was not adequately answered at all in the thread by anyone.

    Apologies for my assumption.
     
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  14. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    Very no.
    Moroni 8:8 Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me.
     
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  15. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    According to the scriptures, God told the first human beings to be fruitful and multiply (Genesis 1:28) and Jesus said, “ Let the little children come to Me and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 19:14). So obviously babies are not God’s enemies.
     
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  16. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    three years re-baptized into Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!
    In the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints, babies are innocent until age 8, then they're accountable.
     
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  17. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    Make sure that you tow the line and follow God's will, because there are scriptures that indicate that a person's salvation can be taken away by Jesus if they don't follow God's will. His parable of the sheep and the goats is one example, and so is his warning in Matthew 7:21, which he said, "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." In my opinion, that's another conflicting message in the Bible, because Romans 10:9:13 says that if someone declares with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believes in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, they'll be saved.

    And Ephesians 2:8–9 states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." However, in Matthew 7:21, Jesus stated, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven," and his sheep and goats parable in Matthew 25:31-46 states the "sheep" were rewarded with eternal life for their good works of feeding the hungry, giving water to people who are thirsty, inviting in a stranger, clothing the needy, and visiting the sick or people in prison. However, the "goats" in this parable were lambasted by Jesus for not feeding the hungry, giving water to people who are thirsty, inviting in strangers, clothing the needy, and not visiting the sick or people in prison. Jesus cursed them and sent them to eternal damnation. The "goats" lacked the good works to be rewarded with eternal life, in spite of the fact that they were Christians who accepted Jesus as their lord and savior.
     
    #77 Sgt. Pepper, Aug 7, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  18. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Jesus, mind your words. They are born in sin.
     
  19. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    . . . That stance seems oxymoronic or at least paradoxical since I suppose Christ (belief in whom makes one a Christian) takes Adam and Eve seriously. Would you quit a discussion with Christ Jesus if he took Adam and or Eve seriously?

    Fwiw, I both believe in evolution and also Adam and Eve. And I image God saying to those who throw Adam and Eve under the bus "Depart from me ye Darwinist-dimwits unto the outer darkness!":D



    John
     
    #79 John D. Brey, Aug 7, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  20. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure you're interpreting the parable as I, or about a billion other believers would interpret them? Parabolic utterances, or parables, work differently than normal or traditional dialogue. Their meaning is affected by how a person interprets them. They're not literal, or doctrinal, statements of static actualities, but require participation in order for them to work at all.



    John
     
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