1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Are atheists liars, deniers or..?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by illykitty, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,397
    Ratings:
    +7,330
    Religion:
    Druidry
    Saying atheists are "liars" or "deniers" is an understandable but absurd error. Adoption of any particular idea or ideology requires learning and training in it. To use an analogy, we can think of theology as being like mathematics. To those who have learned various mathematical principles, they are obvious. But they forget what it was like to not know any of those principles, and what it takes to learn them. Understanding the gods isn't automatic, it has to be taught and learned, just like mathematics or any other subject or discipline. Once you know the discipline, yes, you'll feel it's obvious. But it isn't. And just like some people suck at math, some people suck at theology. They just won't get it, no matter how many times it's explained. There's nothing wrong with that either. We've all different skills and aptitudes, different interests and proclivities. It seems wiser to follow one's strengths and not worry about how one sucks at math or theology or whatever it is. You can always consult someone who has those strengths for help in that area if you have need of it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    36,545
    Ratings:
    +7,623
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    ?

    This does not seem to address the subject matter of the thread at all.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. DavidMcCann

    DavidMcCann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,605
    Ratings:
    +818
    Religion:
    Hellenic Pagan
    The Roman writer Sallustius (On the gods and the cosmos), who believed in reincarnation, speculated that atheists might be people who'd behaved so appallingly in their last life that being cold-shouldered by the gods was their punishment in this one: i.e. it wasn't that they denied the gods, but that the gods denied them.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    2,446
    Ratings:
    +661
    Over and over again, the question presents itself as to why an atheist simply doesn't believe in God or religion.

    Why is this so hard to understand?

    If I told you there was a gold brick inside a box, what is the first thing you're going to do to believe me?

    It doesn't take a billion threads on this subject to answer it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    24,806
    Ratings:
    +7,207
    But they really, really, really want to believe there's a gold brick inside that box. And if don't believe as well, it's somehow threatening. Ergo, endless threads/discussions repeating the same ultimately hollow arguments over and over.
     
  6. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,497
    Ratings:
    +919
    Religion:
    Humanist
    Apologies, I should have realised it was so outrageous
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Living Dead Girl

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,035
    Ratings:
    +8,337
    Religion:
    IDIC
    Lucky you. Theists, pretty much Christians in these parts, are notorious for saying Atheists are just "angry at god," that they are "inherently immoral," and then there is the every so childish and immature "God doesn't believe in Atheists." More or less, Atheism is viewed as a negative personality trait.
    Many theists do. When I was a Baptist, life, according to them, is just without meaning, full of being a slave to sin, and just isn't worth living unless you have God.
    Christians, Hindus, they all have their "promises." But none of them will ever happen.
    Because this is a totally illogical argument. Cancer in children? Parasites that eat their host from the inside out? Radiation from the sun? If it was designed, it was designed by a psychopath
     
    #27 Shadow Wolf, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,034
    Ratings:
    +123
    Religion:
    Christian
    *Closet Communists.* First, they want socialism and then communism and then... We've seen the left go further left and the right go further right.
     
  9. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,539
    Ratings:
    +830
    Religion:
    Amish Taliban
    Atheists aren't willing to play God's annoying games
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    44,163
    Ratings:
    +6,244
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    You misunderstand: only complex or elegant nice things need a creator. Complex or elegant nasty things can arise on their own.

    ;)
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Living Dead Girl

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,035
    Ratings:
    +8,337
    Religion:
    IDIC
    Actually, the "Left," though including Communists, Anarchists, and Socialist, does not make everyone one-in-the-same or mean we all have the same goals.
     
  12. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    13,275
    Ratings:
    +2,685
    I hope this does not seem off topic and just adds a little fun.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    3,994
    Ratings:
    +712
    Religion:
    Non atheist
    like multiverses? as long as you apply the same skepticism to atheism!

    If you see the word 'HELP' written on a deserted island beach in rocks- no evidence of anyone ever being there. Do you suspect the random action of the waves, or that somehow intelligent agency was involved?
     
  14. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    24,806
    Ratings:
    +7,207
    No, the bad things are actually the fault of people, somehow.
     
  15. Willamena

    Willamena Just be there, doing that
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    36,111
    Ratings:
    +4,779
    Well said. Empiricism provided an answer to the question of the unobvious god, as there, in that regard, it was the same as the unobvious universe. Immanuel Kant cleanly divided what we can from what we cannot comprehend (phenomenon from 'noumenon'), with a theory of fundamental knowledge, based off the "Justified, True Belief," which spawned a discussion about what commonly came to be known as The Problem of Knowledge. I think that people who still cling to the idea that minds present an interpretive or inexact replica of an external real world (The Matrix) are essentially investing in something similar to a god (real world) that shapes the world and informs everything that we 'know'--unseen, eternal, and immanent.

    Further reading: http://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil1020/Kant.pdf
     
    #35 Willamena, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  16. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    2,446
    Ratings:
    +661
    Hey look. Jesus is everywhere!

    21 images of Jesus and other religious figures seen in strange things and places

    Now can we just end this silly debate already?
     
  17. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros / Lux Aeterna

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    19,950
    Ratings:
    +7,018
    Religion:
    Olympianism (Hellenic polytheism)
    Well, the Gods must be giving almost everyone the cold shoulder since most people don't believe in them anymore. So that's a silly argument to use.
     
  18. columbus

    columbus celestial highness

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    9,858
    Ratings:
    +5,126
    Religion:
    None
    If I knew Chinese and Arabic, but not European languages, I probably would think "odd", but wouldn't think intelligent agency.
    Tom
     
  19. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    3,994
    Ratings:
    +712
    Religion:
    Non atheist

    So you'd put this odd design down to the random action of the waves- would you be right or wrong?
     
  20. Soundwave99

    Soundwave99 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Ratings:
    +17
    Religion:
    atheist-agnostic some days
    Note: This response is only about one the Fundamnetalist Christians/Jews/Muslims/Pagans/Hindus/ whatever who say that atheists are denying the existence of God(s), not all Fundamentalists. I try to make this clear in my post, but I want to make sure that this is clear. Unlike the people I'm talking about in this post, I don't make sweeping generalizations about huge groups of people I know nothing about. I also wrote this using Abrahamic terms, although it still equally applies to Fundies of other religions.


    It's only a matter of time you spend on this site before you encounter some Fundie screeching about how atheists know God exist and are just denying god despite all the "evidence". Of course, if they show their "evidence" (there's at least a 50% chance they won't and just won't respond when asked about this "evidence"...I wonder why;)), it's a joke. If you consider any of this "evidence" to be sufficient...you don't know what evidence is and should not be on a debate forum (or the internet in general, given all the nonsense online). Their "evidence" is usually something stupid along the lines of "We can't explain [complexity of life/morality/origins of the universe/consciousness/insert thing that is complex or we don't fully understand here], therefore GOD!!!!l. CHECKMATE, LOL STUPID ATHEISTS!!!! UR JUST DENYING GOD AND I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT!!!!!"

    They also seem to always strawman the atheist position. The VAST MAJORITY of atheists don't say that there is no God and instead say that they don't believe in God (usually due to a lack of evidence). So Psalm 53:1 is irrelevant. The fact that these Fundies use this Psalm as an argument show that THEY are the real fools, because they don't even take the time to understand the position they're arguing against.

    Ironically (or not), the Fundies who say these things are really the ones who do them. They say atheists are closed-minded, but really they're the closed-minded ones because they just "know" that their position is right. Alternatively, this could be an ego thing, thinking their opinions are above being challenged. They say atheists are denying reason, logic, God, common sense, etc. while they deny any holes in their beliefs. They say atheists hate God, but really they just want an excuse to hate people who don't share their beliefs. Ironic how they always rant and rave about "hypocrites", yet never look in the mirror. Look, I try to respect people and their beliefs as much as I can even though I disagree with them. But I refuse to respect either the beliefs of or the people themselves who hate me and probably want me dead.

    They say God is on their side, but really they're no different than any other hater caught up in their feelings . And if their beliefs do somehow turn out to be true, I'd rather burn in Hell and be tortured for eternity than have to spend it with the Fundies who say this nonsense.
     
Loading...