Are all atheists facing Hell?

[Muffled]

And I know just because you believe something doesn't make it real or a fact.

I believe if I want to know about math facts I go to a math book. If I want to know about Hell I go to God through the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BilliardsBall]

There are other reasons, but sure, that is a valid one that indeed happens to be true for me.



Then we shall not have any problems.

It is the "happens to be true for me" that biblicists find troubling. Subjective morality to measure a being of absolute moral and love perfection!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Pascal's wager is using a 1 in a million analogy.
Pascals gets into threats of punishment like the Romans verses you cited.

Pascal is using a T/F, on/off lever.

Threats of punishment or love of Christ is fine. If I "scare the Hell out of you" I should worry about doing so?

 

[Muffled]

Only if there is one, and so far, no evidence exists to indicate there is one.

I believe experience is a great teacher. For me I would rather believe what God says than wait to go there to find out.

 

[Muffled]

I base my decisions more on what my conscience says than what I read in the scriptures or hear over the pulpit. And that puts my in the position described by my signature (see below).

I believe that means you will be just as sinful as your conscience.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is the "happens to be true for me" that biblicists find troubling. Subjective morality to measure a being of absolute moral and love perfection!

I think you are confused.

There is no point whatsoever, and certainly not a moral one, on attempting to guide myself by scripture attributed to a deity.

And even were I to take it for granted that somehow there is... the Christian Bible hardly qualifies, or even attempts to.

Edited to add: To elaborate, morality is not obedience to rules. The proper name for that is indeed obedience.

Morality is something else entirely, something far more dynamic and ambitious. It is an emergent property of the convergence of the ability to predict the likely results of behavior and the ability to perceive and empathise with situations of pleasure and pain, gain and loss.

It is IMO objective, but by no means delimitable by mere scripture. Quite on the contrary, true morality can only exist over the background of an active, rational being capable of perceiving existence and making value judgements accordingly.

 

[LuisDantas]

What are you talking about? "God is easily fooled or bribeable."

That is one of the necessary premises for an attempt to make use of Pascal's Wager to be possible.

The wager has to do with the humans facing existential questions.

Does it? As I understand it, it is just about how to trick a fire-and-brimstone God into sparing one. Or more accurately, about how to deal about fears related to that image.

I would not call that an existential question, but I suppose someone else might.

If there is a 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance that you can improve an eternal position by effort, do so. As the Bible says, people have no excuse for not detailing these matters!

Uh. Sorry. That still makes no sense, and still sounds vaguely offensive towards theism and the Bible.

Were I a Christian, I doubt I would feel confortable with such a statement.

 

[Milton Platt]

I believe experience is a great teacher. For me I would rather believe what God says than wait to go there to find out.

I've never met anyone who has been to hell, and I've not been so I don't know where the experience comes in. I have to have some really good evidence that both a god and a hell exist.

 

[Katzpur]

I believe that means you will be just as sinful as your conscience.

That sounds about right. And incidentally, I have an extremely diligent conscience.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Judges 1:19New International Version (NIV)

19 The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I think you are confused.

There is no point whatsoever, and certainly not a moral one, on attempting to guide myself by scripture attributed to a deity.

And even were I to take it for granted that somehow there is... the Christian Bible hardly qualifies, or even attempts to.

Edited to add: To elaborate, morality is not obedience to rules. The proper name for that is indeed obedience.

Morality is something else entirely, something far more dynamic and ambitious. It is an emergent property of the convergence of the ability to predict the likely results of behavior and the ability to perceive and empathise with situations of pleasure and pain, gain and loss.

It is IMO objective, but by no means delimitable by mere scripture. Quite on the contrary, true morality can only exist over the background of an active, rational being capable of perceiving existence and making value judgements accordingly.

...And all you've said about morality is subjective. The scriptures contain absolutes: "thou shalt, thou shalt not".

You are an evolutionist who says that morality is in large part a contrivance to protect societal aims and the greater good. So it becomes all the more subjective and conditional.

Without God, you have no ability to say or prove concretely that the morals of a Hitler or a Pol Pot are wrong. Indeed, the Nazis and Nazi sympathizers felt that genocide was preserving their race--the greater good for the collective.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That is one of the necessary premises for an attempt to make use of Pascal's Wager to be possible.



Does it? As I understand it, it is just about how to trick a fire-and-brimstone God into sparing one. Or more accurately, about how to deal about fears related to that image.

I would not call that an existential question, but I suppose someone else might.



Uh. Sorry. That still makes no sense, and still sounds vaguely offensive towards theism and the Bible.

Were I a Christian, I doubt I would feel confortable with such a statement.

It's not a bribe to receive God on God's stated terms--Pascal was a Christian. Like me, He trusted Christ for salvation. The "bribe" you find morally objectionable WAS paid--by Christ on the cross!

It sounds "vaguely offensive toward the Bible" to say that the Bible says only foolish people don't ponder their limited life span and eternity?!!

 

[LuisDantas]

It's not a bribe to receive God on God's stated terms--Pascal was a Christian. Like me, He trusted Christ for salvation. The "bribe" you find morally objectionable WAS paid--by Christ on the cross!

It sounds "vaguely offensive toward the Bible" to say that the Bible says only foolish people don't ponder their limited life span and eternity?!!

When you put it that way, it is not too vague.

 

[LuisDantas]

...And all you've said about morality is subjective. The scriptures contain absolutes: "thou shalt, thou shalt not".

You are an evolutionist who says that morality is in large part a contrivance to protect societal aims and the greater good. So it becomes all the more subjective and conditional.

Without God, you have no ability to say or prove concretely that the morals of a Hitler or a Pol Pot are wrong. Indeed, the Nazis and Nazi sympathizers felt that genocide was preserving their race--the greater good for the collective.

Let's just say that I don't think you understand morality very well.

 

[Thief]

Let's just say that I don't think you understand morality very well.

pop an op for us.....Morality as I see it

see you there

 

[Thief]

I believe if I want to know about math facts I go to a math book. If I want to know about Hell I go to God through the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

you could ask the devil

but maybe the evening news is a clue

 

[Sabour]

Some churches have inferred otherwise, however, the Bible does not mince it's words,

John 3:36
& other verses,
All atheists might be facing Hell.

According to Islam, any one who didn't receive the massage of Islam and understood it will have his own test on judgement day.

Let's say person X got the idea that Islam is violent and he searched, yet didn't find anything that proves otherwise, he won't be held responsible.

That is what I know, and God knows best ....

 

[Katzpur]

According to Islam, any one who didn't receive the massage of Islam and understood it will have his own test on judgement day.

Let's say person X got the idea that Islam is violent and he searched, yet didn't find anything that proves otherwise, he won't be held responsible.

That is what I know, and God knows best ....

Basically that is very, very similar to Mormonism.

 

[Thief]

According to Islam, any one who didn't receive the massage of Islam and understood it will have his own test on judgement day.

Let's say person X got the idea that Islam is violent and he searched, yet didn't find anything that proves otherwise, he won't be held responsible.

That is what I know, and God knows best ....

if you know scripture...any kind....
your plea of ignorance will not be accepted

even so......harmful intent is not likely to cross over into heaven

I believe the peace of heaven is guarded
and the angels have been portrayed with sword in hand
for centuries

 

[Katzpur]

if you know scripture...any kind....
your plea of ignorance will not be accepted

So what do you think ought to happen to those who are ignorant of the truth, Thief? How do you think that a God who is both just and merciful would handle such a situation? Please tell me you're not going to fall back on Romans 1:20. If you are, you're going to have to explain a lot of inconsistencies that verse raises when seen in the context of the rest of the New Testament.