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Any tips for Bible Study?

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
You can start in the bible wherever God is leading you. The first book I started with was Leviticus! which many would steer you away from but, with God's blessing, you will learn and be enriched. I think the best advice is to practice what you learn, apply God's Word to your life. This is not always the easiest thing to do..in fact, it will most likely be the hardest thing you do! Pray for help and guidance. Ask God for a humble heart to hear His Word and put it into action. You'll make mistakes. Ask for forgiveness. Love those whom God has brought into your life. Pray, pray, pray...because without God you can do nothing.:yellowheart:

As I read the replies in this thread I noticed some toxicity in the last of the posts. So my curiosity caused me to scan from reply one to find where the agitation began. That's when I noticed your thread that I somehow missed on first go around. So something good came out of reading all the replies over again because I never did find where the toxic stuff began, but I did find your reply! You give good advice especially the latter part about praying. Our bible menioned related verse about praying over 75 times for example; Jesus said
"Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18) KJV

; { >
 

Daisies4me

Active Member
Are you saying the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant?

(quote)
The Law Covenant was fulfilled. As you can see from the cited Scripture, even while the Law Covenant was still in force, God had His Prophet Jeremiah point forward to another covenant, a new covenant.
And thankfully so. Jesus offered up His perfect body as a Sacrifice for sins 'once for all time', and with his own blood, sealed the New covenant. So, no one has to offer up sacrifices for sins today, as was required under the Covenant of Law, where by, at that time, those under the Law Covenant were to have been 'a nation of Priests to our God'....obviously, that proved not to be true, when the Priests bound Jesus , and carried him to the Roman rulers, demanding that they charge him and put him to death....
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
I don't use translations, I'm Jewish. I use the Hebrew.

Are you saying you read Hebrew/speak script ? Even as an ordained Christian (multi-denominational) minister * whos brief ministry included an lovely Christian curious Jewish person spoke some Hebrew, I found few American Jewish people spoke Hebrew. Well, the last study I read said about 10% American Jewish people spoke conversational Hebrew. I am simply curious. : { >
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
Are you saying you read Hebrew/speak script ? Even as an ordained Christian (multi-denominational) minister * whos brief ministry included an lovely Christian curious Jewish person spoke some Hebrew, I found few American Jewish people spoke Hebrew. Well, the last study I read said about 10% American Jewish people spoke conversational Hebrew. I am simply curious. : { >
What does speaking "conversational" Hebrew, by which I assume you mean modern Hebrew, have to do with reading and understanding Biblical Hebrew?

As for Tumah, specifically, yes he knows the language of the Tanakh.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Are you saying you read Hebrew/speak script ? Even as an ordained Christian (multi-denominational) minister * whos brief ministry included an lovely Christian curious Jewish person spoke some Hebrew, I found few American Jewish people spoke Hebrew. Well, the last study I read said about 10% American Jewish people spoke conversational Hebrew. I am simply curious. : { >
Modern Hebrew is not quite the same as Biblical Hebrew, although I know them both as well as Rabbinic/Mishnaic Hebrew.

What I meant was that as a Jewish student of the Torah, of course I would know Hebrew. Not all Jews study Torah religiously, but of those that do, I think a majority can do the same, as pretty much all our source literature is writen in some form of Hebrew (when its not in Aramaic).
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
(quote)
But your translators are better, How?
I don't use translations, I'm Jewish. I use the Hebrew.

I have to side with Daisies4me on her question.
If Tumah is using a masoretic Bible, then the question stands as to why his translators/editors were/are better than any other. Why is one to assume they were more objective, why is one to assume they made fewer mistakes and/or fewer changes due to their own biases and worldviews than any other translators/editors.

1) The Hebrew Tanakh IS a translation from prior differing languages.
Obviously Hebrew was not the original language of the original stories making up the books that eventually ended up in the Tanakh. For examples, there is no evidence that Adam spoke Hebrew or that Abraham spoke hebrew, ( He would not have spoken Hebrew, having been from Ur). The Genesis record itself describes other languages and clans descending from the sons of Noah "each with it's own language" (ch 10).
Rather, the Jews came to adopt national Hebrew, and the texts were converted into national Hebrew and national Hebrew itself evolved as the matris lectiones were invented and vowels were adopted in later centuries. All languages evolve. While it is a Jewish dogma that Hebrew was the language of Adam, I don’t know of any actual linguists who would adopt this claim based on significant objective data.

2) In Addition to the Hebrew Old Testament being a translation from earlier languages, there were multiple versions of the Old Testament.
For example, in 2 Kings chapter 22, when Hilkiah finds the “book of the law in the house of the LORD.” (kjv) and he delivers this Book to Josiah who then (in Chapter 23) reads to the inhabitants of Jerusalem “all the words of the book of the covenants” .

However, the Jerusalem Talmud itself tells us that Hilkiah actually found THREE pentateuchs in the temple (codices Meon, Zaatute and Hi). The three texts disagreed in their readings and so the priests used a rule of majority and produced a fourth version based on the two that agreed against the version that did not agree. (the new version is presumably, the one Josiah read publicly)

Thus, the Jewish texts were already corrupted in certain ways by this early time period. Whiston tells us Josephus used yet another different version of the Torah for his histories (This torah was given to him by vespasian him from the spoils of the Jerusalem temple). These very simple histories describe at least five versions of the Pentateuch (there were many more) at early periods and corruptions in each version.


3) Modern Rabbinic Judaism is not the same religion as ancient Judaism.
Jews, like Christians, often like to assume their religion is unchanged. I think while it gives them a psychological reassurance to tell themselves this, in reality, modern Judaism and ancient Judaism are different religions with different characteristics despite having the same name. (one can even be an athiest nowadays and still be "Jewish")

I do not think modern Judaic movements in their various forms have much advantage over the earlier Judeo-Christian movement in their interpretations and worldviews of the Gospel.

In any case, I hope your journeys are good

Clear
ειειακσιω
 
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MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
What does speaking "conversational" Hebrew, by which I assume you mean modern Hebrew, have to do with reading and understanding Biblical Hebrew?

As for Tumah, specifically, yes he knows the language of the Tanakh.

I was simply posting a fact that has some importance to me, also I was trying to getting a feel for the conversation. Anyway, 'nothing' covers a lot of territory doesn't it? The reason I say that is I have heard it said (on the web) Biblical Hebrew and modern Hebrew is like comparing Old English and modern English or Shakespeare's English ie Early modern English and modern English, was my source's analogy wrong or just bad ? Lol.

: {>
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Modern Hebrew is not quite the same as Biblical Hebrew, although I know them both as well as Rabbinic/Mishnaic Hebrew.

What I meant was that as a Jewish student of the Torah, of course I would know Hebrew. Not all Jews study Torah religiously, but of those that do, I think a majority can do the same, as pretty much all our source literature is writen in some form of Hebrew (when its not in Aramaic).

Thank you for your reply. Languages are fascinating, especially Hebrew. I would like to study the basics of Hebrew because I feel the spoken language is sacred connection, however tenuous (or not) to our creator. But as I consider the years flying' by, I think I will just wait to meet him face to face (hopefully). .... ; {>
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
I have to side with Daisies4me on her question.
If Tumah is using a masoretic Bible, then the question stands as to why his translators/editors were/are better than any other. Why is one to assume they were more objective, why is one to assume they made fewer mistakes and/or fewer changes due to their own biases and worldviews than any other translators/editors.
I kind of get the feeling that you're trying to stick this into a conversation that's not really directly related to the topic between me and the other poster. The translation used by the other poster relies on the MT for its source. Whether or not the MT is a translation as well, is irrelevant, since both of us believe it isn't (I assume the other poster being a JW does as well). But even were that not so, the English translations used by Christians are based on the MT and the Septuagint which is based on the Hebrew as well.

So you're comments don't seem to have any relevance.

1) The Hebrew Tanakh IS a translation from prior differing languages.
Obviously Hebrew was not the original language of the original stories making up the books that eventually ended up in the Tanakh. For examples, there is no evidence that Adam spoke Hebrew or that Abraham spoke hebrew, ( He would not have spoken Hebrew, having been from Ur). The Genesis record itself describes other languages and clans descending from the sons of Noah "each with it's own language" (ch 10).
Rather, the Jews came to adopt national Hebrew, and the texts were converted into national Hebrew and national Hebrew itself evolved as the matris lectiones were invented and vowels were adopted in later centuries. All languages evolve. While it is a Jewish dogma that Hebrew was the language of Adam, I don’t know of any actual linguists who would adopt this claim based on significant objective data.
You'll first have to prove that the Hebrew speaking Jews weren't the ones that fabricated the texts to begin with. I can write a story about you in Hebrew, that doesn't mean originally someone else wrote it in English.

2) In Addition to the Hebrew Old Testament being a translation from earlier languages, there were multiple versions of the Old Testament.
For example, in 2 Kings chapter 22, when Hilkiah finds the “book of the law in the house of the LORD.” (kjv) and he delivers this Book to Josiah who then (in Chapter 23) reads to the inhabitants of Jerusalem “all the words of the book of the covenants” .

However, the Jerusalem Talmud itself tells us that Hilkiah actually found THREE pentateuchs in the temple (codices Meon, Zaatute and Hi). The three texts disagreed in their readings and so the priests used a rule of majority and produced a fourth version based on the two that agreed against the version that did not agree. (the new version is presumably, the one Josiah read publicly)
The three texts were three minor changes in three places, not three entirely different Pentateuchs. This is identified in the passage.
  1. In Deut. 33:27 one text said "me'on", the other said "me'onah"
  2. In Ex. 24:5 one text said "za'tutei" and the other said "na'arei"
  3. A variation in whether a few verses said "hu" or "hi"
All these words and their counterparts mean the same thing.

Thus, the Jewish texts were already corrupted in certain ways by this early time period. Whiston tells us Josephus used yet another different version of the Torah for his histories (This torah was given to him by vespasian him from the spoils of the Jerusalem temple). These very simple histories describe at least five versions of the Pentateuch (there were many more) at early periods and corruptions in each version.
There were a number of versions floating around by that time. The DSS is another.

3) Modern Rabbinic Judaism is not the same religion as ancient Judaism.
Jews, like Christians, often like to assume their religion is unchanged. I think while it gives them a psychological reassurance to tell themselves this, in reality, modern Judaism and ancient Judaism are different religions with different characteristics despite having the same name. (one can even be an athiest nowadays and still be "Jewish")
While there are many additions to Judaism that are not present in the Written Law, the things that are in the Torah are only followed by Jews today.

I do not think modern Judaic movements in their various forms have much advantage over the earlier Judeo-Christian movement in their interpretations and worldviews of the Gospel.
I don't think anyone was arguing about the NT.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
I was simply posting a fact that has some importance to me, also I was trying to getting a feel for the conversation. Anyway, 'nothing' covers a lot of territory doesn't it? The reason I say that is I have heard it said (on the web) Biblical Hebrew and modern Hebrew is like comparing Old English and modern English or Shakespeare's English ie Early modern English and modern English, was my source's analogy wrong or just bad ? Lol.

: {>
I don't know the difference between Modern English and Early English, but there are some basic grammar differences between Modern Hebrew and Biblical Hebrew and some words are used differently (including a few that mean the opposite of what they mean in Modern Hebrew).
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
So, my question is, how does a person do bible studies? If it helps any, I'll be focusing on the Old Testament rather than the New Testament, at least for now.

Late arrival, I know. I always suggest reading the book without any study guides or annotated notations. Just read the book for what it is first, and then go back and make notes to yourself about things that you found confusing of needed clarification on. You can look those things up at any time. You need to get a feel for the work itself before you start adding outside information to your understanding of it.

I minored in Theology and Biblical Studies.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Late arrival, I know. I always suggest reading the book without any study guides or annotated notations. Just read the book for what it is first, and then go back and make notes to yourself about things that you found confusing of needed clarification on.
That's about the worst suggestion I've come across in a long time.

I minored in Theology and Biblical Studies.
Then you should presumably know better.
 

Daisies4me

Active Member
I kind of get the feeling that you're trying to stick this into a conversation that's not really directly related to the topic between me and the other poster. The translation used by the other poster relies on the MT for its source. Whether or not the MT is a translation as well, is irrelevant, since both of us believe it isn't (I assume the other poster being a JW does as well). But even were that not so, the English translations used by Christians are based on the MT and the Septuagint which is based on the Hebrew as well.

So you're comments don't seem to have any relevance.


You'll first have to prove that the Hebrew speaking Jews weren't the ones that fabricated the texts to begin with. I can write a story about you in Hebrew, that doesn't mean originally someone else wrote it in English.


The three texts were three minor changes in three places, not three entirely different Pentateuchs. This is identified in the passage.
  1. In Deut. 33:27 one text said "me'on", the other said "me'onah"
  2. In Ex. 24:5 one text said "za'tutei" and the other said "na'arei"
  3. A variation in whether a few verses said "hu" or "hi"
All these words and their counterparts mean the same thing.


There were a number of versions floating around by that time. The DSS is another.


ThisWhile there are many additions to Judaism that are not present in the Written Law, the things that are in the Torah are only followed by Jews today.


I don't think anyone was arguing about the NT.
(quote)
Many Bibles of old are on display in Warwick, NY, and can be viewed there.

God’s Name in the Bible | JW.ORG Videos click on and watch the videos
 
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