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Featured Any questions about the Jehovah's witness faith?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by capumetu, Dec 27, 2020.

  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, biblical truth sets us free from what is biblically false.
    Biblical truth is as Jesus said who he is at John 10:36, Jesus' answer to them was Not a lie.

    Yes, Jesus was 'in' the beginning, and according to Psalms 90:2 God was ' before ' the beginning.
    So, pre-human heavenly Jesus was Not ' before ' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning.
    That is why John penned that Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God at Revelation 3:14 B.

    John believed that No one can see God and live. People saw Jesus and lived - John 1:18.
    Any thoughts please about John 6:46; 1 John 4:12; Exodus 33:20

    The same Greek grammar rule applies at both: Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B and John 1
    KJV inserted the letter 'a' at Acts, but omitted the letter 'a' at John.
     
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  2. capumetu

    capumetu Active Member

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    I couldn't have said it better myself, kudos to you Ura
     
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  3. Love God

    Love God Member

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    you know your Jehovah's Witness tune but nothing on your own.
    Can you explain what a Lutheran believes? Or a charismatic?

    it is the same thing that all religious people do. Follow only their religion’s teachings exclusively.
    O. That is cult 101.
    Read only our stuff.
    Control 101.
    If you try and understand another’s beliefs, you will get confused.
    Fear 101.
    We alone have the truth. Over and over...
    Brainwashing 101.

    the fact of the matter is all man made religions are cults. You happen to be in a pretty well known cult. I came out of the largest cult on earth. I was born into that. It was put into my brain from day one...

    you volunteered for yours. If you actually decide to read the bible apart from your cult, you are going to be shocked at how twisted your cult is!


    “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”
    ‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    ol Joe Smith didn’t receive any special revelation, but he did get to have many ‘wives’ and control... until he didn’t...

    you’ve been duped. You may or may not get out of your cult. It seems that you have achieved status in your cult and I imagine it will be hard to give up the control and admiration. People probably fawn over you because you are so ‘smart’...

    The bible isn’t bound up in any religion. It isn’t for private interpretation.
    The bible is for everyone.
    Meant to be read by everyone.

    Jesus is God. He claimed to be God. He is God. God among us.
    Jesus came to show sinners the way and save any sinner who will believe him. Jesus did not say to follow Joseph Smith. Or Pope John the smooth or any Arab with the right mole on their back!
    Jesus said to follow him.


    “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


    Maybe consider comparing what you believe to what the bible actually says.
    You have been so busy twisting the words to make it fit your scenario instead of letting the book speak for itself.

    but I like I said, twisting the narrative is so common.


    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    it is that simple.

    get out of religion. Follow Jesus and get saved. (Yes. Saved from hell.)
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find your ^ above ^ comments to be rather insulting than helpful.
    I was a former Catholic, a former Lutherian taught me a few things about the Bible.
    Lutherans believe Jesus is God, don't know about 'all' charismatics. Perhaps you'd let us know.
    Jesus never lied. Please notice Jesus truthful answer as found at John 10:36 ______________________
    John wrote that heavenly pre-human Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God at Revelation 3:14 B
    John wrote that the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
    Psalms 90:2 teaches that God is from everlasting. That means God had No beginning. Only God was 'before' the beginning of anything.
    John wrote that Jesus was "IN" the beginning. John did Not write that Jesus was "BEFORE" the beginning.
    Thus, pre-human Jesus was Not ' before ' the beginning as his God was ' before' the beginning.
    I find No getting out of religion according to James 2:27 ________________ rather get out of false religion.
    Yes, follow Jesus and get saved according to Jesus at Matthew 24:13 _______________
    Yes, saved from hell just as dead Jesus was saved from hell when his God resurrected dead Jesus out of hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
    I find everyone in hell is to be ' delivered up ' according to Revelation 20:13-14.
    ' Delivered up ' means resurrected out of hell, or that hell ' gives up ' the dead in hell.
    Then, please notice that emptied-out hell is then cast empty into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
     
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  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    That would be like the ”weeds” of Jesus’ parable finding out what the other “weeds” were teaching.....what would be the point if they are all “weeds”? :shrug: "Christendom" in its many denominations does not represent Christianity....how do we know? They don't all speak in agreement. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

    Jesus said that he would assign a “faithful and discreet (wise) slave” to “feed” his fellow slaves their “food at the proper time”. (Matthew 24:45) He did not assign many slaves, just one, and we were to feed only what “he” served. So only one source of truth is from this “slave”......and according to the apostle Paul, there are only two tables at which to feed. (1 Corinthians 10:21) What does not come from Jesus, comes from his enemy. The one who showed the “weeds” of fake Christianity among the “wheat”.

    Is it possible to imagine that you have the truth but have swallowed lies? Yes! according to Jesus, (Matthew7:21-23) But no true Christian is self taught because they are feeding at their own table.

    Can we be sure that we are feeding at the right table....yes by examining the "fruitage" (actions and teachings) of the whole body of believers....are they united in their beliefs, regardless of what country they live in or what language they speak? Are they following all of Christ's teachings and commands, or only the convenient ones?

    If that is the case then Jesus was a cult leader, using fear, control and brainwashing to gain his disciples. Did he do that? I see no evidence of it. He taught love and forgiveness and the correct way to worship his Father....never once claiming equality with him.

    What if no one had followed him according to your evaluation? What happened to the ones who opposed and disbelieved him? (Matthew 23:37-39)
    No one was permitted to teach anything other than what Jesus and the apostles taught. Is that brainwashing? (2 John 10-11)

    In view of James 2:19, what does it mean to "believe" in your estimation?

    JW's have no "Joseph Smith" or any leader other than Jesus Christ. We have no "prophets" other than the ones mentioned in the Bible, who speak to us today by extension. I have not found a single body of professed Christians who are even close to JW's in sticking close to Jesus' teachings and obeying his command to preach about God's Kingdom. (Matthew 28:19-20)

    Jesus is NOT God, and never once claimed that he was. It is blasphemy to assume any equivalency between the Father and his Son.....not to mention breaking the first commandment by placing another “god “ in place of Jehovah. (Exodus 20:3) Jesus was the Son of God before he became the son of Mary. What does "only begotten mean"? How is Jesus "the only begotten Son" when God has many other "sons"?

    If John 1:1 was translated accurately from the Greek manuscripts, then there could never have been a trinity in the first place.

    If the KJV translates verse 1 accurately, then why did it translate verse 18 inaccurately?

    John 1:1 KJV...”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

    John 1:18....”No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

    In the first verse “theos” is translated “God” but in the Greek, there are two “gods” mentioned. The Greeks were polytheists and all their gods had names, and collectively were simply called “the gods”. Since the God of the Jews was not called by his name (Psalm 83:18) as the Jews had stopped uttering it, the only way to distinguish this God was to use the definite article “the” or “ho” in Greek.

    If you read John 1:1 in Greek, you will see that only one “God” is identified as “the God” (ho theos). The Word (Jesus) is called “theos” but without the definite article. Theos in Greek means a “mighty or powerful one” and does not identify the God of the Bible exclusively. Jesus is also a “mighty one” but he is not “the God”.

    The KJV in verse 18 translates “theos” as “the Son”......that is a serious translation error designed to promote the trinity, but for those who can understand the lie, it was blasphemous. If it translates verse 18 as “the Son” then verse 1 should also be translated accordingly as....”the Word was the Son”.

    Your loyalty to the KJV is misplaced IMO. It is not an accurate translation. And no one speaks archaic English anymore...the whole purpose of translation is to make the meaning in todays language clearer. The KJV fails in that regard...in fact it confuses people.

    I have just given you evidence of a very serious twisting of your own preferred Bible translation....so are you letting the Bible speak for itself? Or are you allowing liars to provide you with error dressed up as truth? Deception is deception....does the one deceived know that they are?

    There is no such place as Christendom’s “hell”. It is a sick invention designed by men to scare the pants off ignorant people so that they could control them...are you a victim yourself?

    “Hell” is “sheol/ hades” which in scripture is nothing more scary than going to sleep. The scripture you quoted (John 3:16) is so misunderstood, but what does it really say?

    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    What is offered as an opposite to everlasting life in this verse?
    What does it mean to “perish”? Look it up.

    The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death.....nothing more scary than that.
     
  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Deeje "What does not come from Jesus, comes from his enemy. The one who showed the “weeds” of fake Christianity among the “wheat”."

    I get that Pauline Christendom is the weed that has overpowered the truthful teachings of Jesus.
    Instead of reading and following the Pauline Gospels (seeds of weeds), why don't the JW's read from the book Jesus used to read from and did his acts/ deeds accordingly, please?
    Right friend, please?

    Regards
     
  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Who told you that? We do not believe that Paul was the sower of the “weeds” of fake Christianity, because his writings make up a good part of the Christian scriptures. We see no reason whatsoever to reject what God had included in his word.

    If Paul was a fake Christian, then Jesus’ spirit-inspired apostles would have rejected him. They accepted him as a brother. There is nothing in his writings that contradict what Jesus taught. He did not gain his Christian education second hand, but was taught by Jesus himself, just like the 12. You are maligning a servant of God if you cast aspersions on his character.

    Was he different to the 12 in many respects? Yes he was, and for good reason....his ministry was to take Jesus’ message to the nations, which meant giving testimony before governors and kings and standing before the educated philosophers of the pagan world.....something uneducated ones would have found difficult. His education and background, as well as his Roman citizenship, were put to good use in spreading the gospel message outside of Judaism.

    We take all of scripture, including what constitutes the Hebrew canon as well as the gospels and writings of the apostles and others that God had included in his word. Do you not think that God is powerful enough to control what is contained in his own instruction manual? Is he that powerless, or would he deliberately cause confusion? I see no reason to doubt.....doubting is what the devil causes....he is the one who sows those ‘seeds’. He has been doing it from the beginning.

    I will trust all of scripture....or I will trust none of it. I will never pick and choose, as if I know better than my God does. That would be insulting to him and putting my own opinions above his choices.

    Scripture comes ‘through’ human ‘secretaries’ who were inspired by God to write about their experiences.....but none of it comes ‘from’ any man in our view.

    That is what I believe.
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Deeje "He did not gain his Christian education second hand, but was taught by Jesus himself, just like the 12. "

    I don't agree with one here.
    Was sinful Paul ever in the company of Jesus before the event of Crucifixion with the other 12 disciples, please?
    If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus, please. Right, please?

    Regards
     
  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    How does one quote Jesus when he had already ascended to heaven when he personally chose Saul of Tarsus for a special assignment? We accept the writings of the other apostles which were also written long after Jesus' ascension. All the apostles received the same instruction and training from Jesus. Didn't Jesus promise to be "with" his disciples "all the days" until the system's end? (Matthew 28:19-20)

    Why was Paul any more "sinful" than any of the other apostles? Jesus was the perfect "Son of God", but none of his apostles were perfect.

    The other apostles accepted Paul as their 'brother in Christ' and as was demonstrated throughout their ministry, God's spirit guided them after Jesus' death and resurrection. If Paul was a fake Christian, then God would have revealed it to the 12. He never did....and Paul's writings form part of our scripture.

    Jesus chose Paul as an "apostle to the nations".....one who, with his education and background was already a zealous servant of God......but misguided in his opposition to Jesus disciples.

    At 1 Timothy 1:12-16 Paul admitted....
    "I am grateful to Christ Jesus our Lord, who imparted power to me, because he considered me faithful by assigning me to a ministry, 13 although formerly I was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insolent man. Nevertheless, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and with a lack of faith. 14 But the undeserved kindness of our Lord abounded exceedingly along with faith and the love that is in Christ Jesus. 15 This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these, I am foremost. 16 Nevertheless, I was shown mercy so that by means of me as the foremost case, Christ Jesus might demonstrate all his patience, making me an example to those who are going to rest their faith on him for everlasting life."

    These are the words of a humble man....not of an angry Pharisee bent on destroying those who belonged to "The Way" and who were threatening his beloved Judaism.

    I believe that you have it all wrong about Paul.
     
  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Deeje "How does one quote Jesus when he had already ascended to heaven"

    Jesus never, I get for one, ascended to heaven, Jesus got saved from a cursed death on the Cross and migrated out of Judea and out of the Roman empire so that he is not caught again, please.
    This afforded an opportunity, I understand, to sinful Paul to fake a vision to proclaim an apostle to Jesus, and the credulous believed him. Right friend, please?
    The true followers of Jesus are to follow Jesus who was a Jew and never proclaimed to be a Christian, as I understand, please. Right friend, please?

    Regards
     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    No, not right...who told you this? :shrug:
    Jesus came for the specific purpose of giving up his life as a sacrifice, as our scripture says. His was a rescue mission and it was successful. His death saved us.....it is why God sent him.

    Paul's experience was not a vision but a blinding light that made him lose his sight, and he heard the voice of Jesus asking why he was persecuting him? He told Saul how to recover his sight and then led him away to be educated.
    The other apostles were skeptical at first but God's spirit was operative and they accepted Paul as their brother. He was a staunch advocate for the teachings of Jesus. He never taught anything in opposition.

    Jesus was a Jew who led the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" out of a corrupted religious system and brought them under a "new covenant" foretold by Jeremiah. The followers of Jesus were called "Christians" later. Initially they were said to belong to "The Way".
     
  12. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Deeje " Paul's experience was not a vision"

    Later sinful Paul described it to be , I understand, a vision on several occasions. Nevertheless, it was a fake vision, as I understand , and the credulous Pauline Christians started believing it. Right friend, please?
    It is not first time that the Pauline-Credulous-Christians made a mistake, earlier they held:
    1. that Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross
    2. while he was just near-dead
    3. then they held Jesus got resurrected from the dead, while it was no requirement of the Sign of Jonah
    4. the Sign was to be shown to the adulterous Jews
    5. but Jesus went secretly to Galilee
    6. from Galilee up the hill Jesus went from the other side down to his travel out of Judea and out of Roman empire to save his life
    7. but they held that Jesus has risen to sky/heaven
    8. and that he sat on the right hand of God.
    Right friend, please?

    Regards
     
  13. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    What does the word 'spirit' mean to Jehovah's Witnesses?
    Examples taken from the NIV;

    'For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.'
    1 Corinthians 2:11


    'Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.'
    Psalm 51:10

    'The soothing tongue is a tree of life, but a perverse tongue crushes the spirit.'
    Proverbs 15:4

    'Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.
    Luke 23:46'

    1 Corinthians 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

    Add to the above numerous references to the 'Holy Spirit'

    So what is this 'spirit' what does the word mean to you?
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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  15. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Deeje " We do not believe that Paul was the sower of the “weeds” "

    But that is what the sinful Paul and the sinful Pauline-Church have done exactly, I understand, with the truthful teachings of Jesus. Right, please?
    It is to rectify these things that Jesus' Second Coming is all about. Right, please?
    Aren't, therefore, sinful Paul and the sinful Pauline-Church together the elements of the Anti-Christ or Dajjal- the great Deceiver that was to come, please? Right friend, please?
    Needn't the credulous Pauline-Christendom of the 32000+ denominations to reflect upon this, please? Right friend, please?
    Also for the attention of our worthy friend @capumetu - the OP of this thread , please.

    Regards
     
  16. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The JWs seem to believe that nobody who died before Jesus died can be heaven-born because they interpret one scripture that way. I realize that with Jehovah there are no time constraints. So, even though Jesus may have opened the way for humans to become spirit creatures with Jehovah, Jehovah is certainly more than capable of reaching back in time before Jesus and taking those faithful men and women for Jesus. Those people who proved faithful to Jehovah are Jewish. Is that not so?
     
  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Didn't they corrupt the Law of Moses?

    Where is our friend @capumetu , please? Is he gone out for jogging, please?! Isn't he supposed to attend the questions about JW's faith, please?

    Regards
     
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  18. Love God

    Love God Member

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    I am, thank God, by no means a scholar. really smart people tend to be conceited in their ‘smarts’ as though that makes them somehow superior to most other humans. And generally use their intelligence to pull ‘fast ones’ over the less endowed...

    the simple fact of the matter is the kjv is written on a fifth grade level so any dummy could understand it. Ain’t God thoughtful like that?

    if thee's and thou’s (singular you) and ye (plural you) trip you up, then I would suggest more research for you...

    I read (an uneducated hick like me!) that the kjv translators decided to implement thee's, thou’s, and ye’s to keep in line with almost all other languages, that have the distinct usage of plural and singular ‘you’.
    Which, I understand, the English language had dropped by the 1300’s... or so.
    Wow. Who knew...

    I do not know everything. But neither do you. I don’t care how much Greek you know.

    you have not ‘proved’ any error in the kjv. You have only proved that any ‘knowing Greek’ can make the bible say what they want it to say for their own purpose(s).

    the bible says ‘for all have sinned’ and ‘the wages of sin is death’.

    But that the Lord has given us a way out of eternal death (which is burning in hell for all eternity, that all deserve), through the payment of Jesus’s death on the cross for whosoever shall believe on him.

    it is pretty simple.
    It matters not if one is the smartest person alive, the Lord Jesus Christ came to save them. From whatever sin they enjoy.
    The problem is always sin.
    The problem is rejecting God.
    The problem is rejecting his absolute truths.
    The problem is mankind’s disinterest in the truth...
    The problem is making truth ‘relative’.


    “Pilate saith unto him,
    What is truth?
    And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭18:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    truth was standing in front of pilate and he rejected it...

    I am quite familiar with the concept of ‘there is no absolute truth’. I bought the lie(s) for many a year. I liked the way I controlled my life and, by golly, no one was going to judge me or tell me ‘their version’ of ‘right and wrong’!

    it was not easy to find ‘God’s truth’ in the sea of lies that exists to try and obscure absolute truth.
    But the Lord has a way of keeping his word if any care to look.

    religions happen because men hate absolute truth and love money, power, prestige. And sex.

    Mankind does not want absolute truth. And that is the truth.

    The Lord God is not any religion.
    The Lord is not a JW. The Lord is not Lutheran. The Lord is not Roman. The Lord is not Mohammedan.

    “As for me, I will call upon God; and the Lord shall save me.”
    ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭55:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    I, and anyone, can call directly to the Lord!
    No religion needed...

    God is in the business of absolute truth and mercy and salvation. Because mankind needs them.

    wanting them is another story, indeed.

    Joy
     
  19. Love God

    Love God Member

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    you know why you were ‘insulted’?

    I questioned your knowledge!
    No one likes their IQ challenged.

    but you insinuated that I was stupid for thinking the Lord has perfect words! You stated that one must know another language to get the ‘understanding’ that you possess!

    do you see the irony yet?

    I am not insulted because you are smarter than me! I am not insulted by any thing that you say, think, or believe.
    Call me whatever names, in Greek or in English, that make you secure in your beliefs. It’s all good!


    “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    If anyone that loves God is wrong, the Lord will turn it to his purpose.

    Being a bible believer has rewarded me with multitudes of insults, intense ridicule, and massive hatred.
    I have been called more names than I care to share. People hate Jesus. And his truth.
    Yet I still have copious amounts of

    Joy

    “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”
    ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭119:165‬ ‭KJV‬‬
     
    #139 Love God, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
  20. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Hmmmm...interesting reply. But like so many others, it’s what you don’t address that is telling to me.
    No matter, I'll address what you did say....
    You mean "really smart" like Jesus? Do you think he used his ‘smarts’ to “pull fast ones over the less endowed”? If one sticks to the teachings of the Christ without leaving out the inconvenient aspects of his principles and commands, how can we go wrong? You might be thanking God for the wrong things. Scholars can give us the results of their studies and nowhere is that more important than in translation.

    The KJV was written when archaic English was the vernacular. It is no longer the vernacular and the whole idea of translation is so that ordinary people can understand what is written. No one needs to learn a whole other language in order to study the Bible nowadays.

    Why would I do that when modern English translations are readily available? Do you think that the KJV is somehow the original Bible? If you want “original” then you must learn Hebrew and Koine Greek. I thank the scholars for giving us the benefit of their language studies. Strongs Concordance is the ‘go to’ for me.
    In this day and age, the KJV is a joke...sorry.

    Sounds like justification for sticking to something incredibly outdated to me....how are modern English translations somehow deficient in this aspect? We all have access to scholarly works to figure things out for ourselves .All we need to do is check with original language to see if the word has been correctly translated.

    Like so many KJV ONLY proponents, any criticism of it is like insulting your mother :rolleyes:.....Who created this misplaced loyalty? Who told you that the KJV is the best translation? The points I raised in my post to you outlined a serious translation error designed to promote the trinity. You ignored it.

    Knowledge of the Greek highlights that error which would otherwise be overlooked by people such as yourself....but you have shown us that accuracy can be sacrificed when a doctrine needs promoting...right?
    When John wrote that "no man has ever seen God" what does that mean to you?

    “The wages sin pays is death”....that is exactly what the Bible says...but death is not another kind of life. The Bible teaches that death is the end of life. “Hell” (hades) is not a place where the dead “live” in order to suffer in flames for all eternity. What kind of loving God would do that? :eek:

    God stated through his prophet Jeremiah that when the Israelites adopted the heinous practice of sacrificing their children in the fire to Molech, he said...
    Jeremiah 7:30-31...
    “For the sons of Judah have done what is bad in my eyes,’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘They have set their disgusting things in the house upon which my name has been called, in order to defile it. 31 And they have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.’“

    How could God condemn such actions and then do the same to his own children? :shrug:

    According to scripture, death ends life. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) There is no conscious, spiritual part of man that survives death. “Hell” (sheol/hades) is the grave...not a place where the wicked suffer, but a place where all the dead “sleep”, awaiting a resurrection....like Lazarus was when Jesus raised him from the dead. Where did Jesus say that Lazarus was? (John 11:11-14)

    Jesus said that he will call ALL the dead from their graves.....he can do that because they are all still in them. (John 5:28-29) These ones are not called from the spirit realm, they are called back to their former life, but in a new world of righteousness. (2 Peter 3:13) The former troubles will be a thing of the past. (Revelation 21:2-4)

    OK....so please let me see if I have this clear.....Jesus came to save sinners...correct? So “whatever sin they enjoy” is not a problem because Jesus saves them...? Does that mean you subscribe to the “once saved always saved” position that allows sin to continue because Jesus has already got the sinner covered?

    This is important because it means that no repentance is required in order to obtain the forgiveness that Jesus’ death guarantees.
    Is that what you mean?

    Truth be told, Pilate found Jesus “not guilty”.....but it was the Jewish people under the influence of their corrupt leaders who did not see the truth standing right in front of them.....and it’s still happening because people are still the same as they have always been. That is why the Bible remains relevant for our time......human nature does not change. We will believe whatever we want to believe and the truth can be staring us in the face but if it’s not what we want to see, we will reject it....and God will not interfere with our free willed choices. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

    I hear you.....but when we finally ditch the 'weeds' for what they are, we can make the mistake of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.....everything you said there is true.....so the way to serve Christ is to imitate him and to follow his teachings every day of your life. (1 Peter 2:21) We have to love the truth enough to be the odd man out in a world alienated from the true God. (1 John 5:19) We have to use the moral compass that God gave us and use his word to distinguish what HE says is right from wrong. Now, if you think about it, this was man's undoing right at the beginning. He wanted to decide for himself what was good and what was evil...he still can't get it right.

    This was said by the King of Israel whose nation were all dedicated to Jehovah in a religion called Judaism. You see, the God of Israel is a God of order.....he prescribed everything that Israel did in worship. Not a thing was left to any individual to decide. God made sure of that after the golden calf incident.

    The Christians, as worshippers of the same God, were also gathered in groups, organized for their worship and also for their preaching activities. (Luke 10:1-6) God does not change.....he has 'cleansed' a people in this time of the end (Daniel 12:4, 9-10) and they are the ones hated by the world for doing exactly what Jesus commanded....preaching about his kingdom and making disciples whilst being "no part of the world". (Matthew 28:19-20; John 15:18-21)

    That is not what the Bible shows though, is it? You apparently want what Jesus does not offer, and that is the freedom to decide for yourself what pleases God and what doesn't. No Jew and no Christian was ever offered that option. In the garden of Eden all God ever asked of his human creation was their obedience to his instructions.....its all he has ever asked of us, even now. We needed to learn how to drive free will and some of us have never quite grasped what that means.

    Most people who identify as "Christians" want "truth, mercy and salvation".....but wanting them does not guarantee them if we can't do as we are told. Most are confused as to what qualifies a person to receive these things.....they are a free gift, but just "believing on the Lord Jesus" is not enough. Life from the very beginning was conditional upon man's obedience.

    "You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder." (James 2:19) What does it mean to "believe" then?

    This is not about defending anyone's ego...this is life or death in Christian understanding, so we have some serious choices to make because we believe that time is fast running out. If Jesus said that his return would be "just like the days of Noah"......well, here we are. (Matthew 24:37-39) Who is listening?
     
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