Anti-gay baker now takes stand against birthdays for trans people

[BSM1]

I totally agree.
I am very big on freedom.

In the interests of efficiency and freedom for customers, would expecting merchants to post signage, explaining exactly who they will serve and what they will do, be too much to ask? And expecting them to serve whoever asks them for something they advertise, if the merchant didn't publicly post their unwillingness to do so?

Put up a sign on the door. "No Blacks, no Irish, no gays", or whatever. Just make it clear to everybody before they go to your business.
Tom

AGAIN- he did not refuse to serve anyone, he refused to be forced into creating something that went against his beliefs. Here's a perfect example: I refused to perform the song "Brown Sugar" by the Rolling Stones after I read the lyrics. Should I be forced into doing this song simply because some one demands it?

 

[Father Heathen]

There are plenty of verses regarding tattoos and mixed fabrics. He stated he only hated to do gay weddings and Halloween cakes. Now it's transgender. Tomorrow, who knows. Women's with kids out of wedlock? Divorced people getting married?

A lot of Christians love to cherry pick what "sins" to be sanctimonious about (hint: never their own).

 

[allfoak]

By choice, not force...there is a difference. How much love was shown to the baker?

Don't know the details.
The government forced the country to integrate the public schools.
Was that wrong?

 

[Father Heathen]

I have to wonder if those who support this guy would also support a business that refused to serve christians and/or whites, or if they would hypocritically screech and squeal in outrage.

 

[stvdv]

Yes, you do. Nobody is forced to run a cake shop. This guy always has the freedom to find some other line of work and then nobody will bother him about baking a cake he disapproves of ever again.

No, still not convinced. I believe no one has the right to force me to do something against my conscience. And I am the one who knows my conscience, not you.

Does a prostitute have the right to say NO to "kinky sex"? Does the baker have the right to say NO to "kinky cakes"?
If they ask the baker to put in a peace of meat, when he is a vegetarian he should be able to say NO.

People nowadays make so much fuzz to impose things on others. If I want a specific cake and the baker says no, I just go to another baker. No big deal to me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I totally agree.
I am very big on freedom.

In the interests of efficiency and freedom for customers, would expecting merchants to post signage, explaining exactly who they will serve and what they will do, be too much to ask? And expecting them to serve whoever asks them for something they advertise, if the merchant didn't publicly post their unwillingness to do so?

Put up a sign on the door. "No Blacks, no Irish, no gays", or whatever. Just make it clear to everybody before they go to your business.
Tom

The problem with that is the free market has already been messed with:

- health code regulations (among other things) make it difficult for people to do custom cakes from their own kitchens as a sideline business, so smaller competitiors have been eliminated.

- market forces and barriers to entry often mean that a given market can't sustain another business, so any new (unbigoted) competitor would have to be prepared to operate at a loss until the (bigoted) incumbent was forced out of business.

- often, government will intervene to make sure a new business doesn't drive an incumbent out of business. For instance, to get a rezoning to allow a new business, the city or county may need a market study to show that the new business won't hurt existing businesses.

Masterpiece Cake Shop has received all sorts of valuable consideration; I don't think it's too much to ask to demand that they behave decently in exchange.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, still not convinced. I believe no one has the right to force me to do something against my conscience. And I am the one who knows my conscience, not you.

Does your conscience force you to sell cakes to the public?

 

[stvdv]

So should I be forced to adhere to your belief if it goes against my belief?

No definitely not. I want you to stick to your belief.

 

[columbus]

Why would anyone from the LGBT community still try to give him money after the first fiasco?

Because they are very big on entitlement and victimhood. They wallow in discrimination whenever they get the chance. Especially when it might result in a check.
Trust me, I know a lot about gay people.
Tom

 

[stvdv]

Does your conscience force you to sell cakes to the public?

To be clear. I have no problem to sell my cake to LBGTX people. In whatever combination.

But if they ask me to put meat in it, I say NO and have the right to say so.

So I have the right to follow my conscience in doing my job.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To be clear. I have no problem to sell my cake to LBGTX people. In whatever combination.

But if they ask me to put meat in it, I say NO and have the right to say so.

So I have the right to follow my conscience in doing my job.

Let me try this another way:

There's no "you must sell cakes to trans people" in "don't sell cakes unless you're okay with selling them to trans people." You always have the option not to sell cakes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am not as judgemental and anti-freedom as you are.

No, I'm just not as selective as you are about who ought to be free.

 

[columbus]

AGAIN- he did not refuse to serve anyone, he refused to be forced into creating something that went against his beliefs.

You're a Trump supporter, aren't you.

You think that refusing to do something is not refusing to do something.

OK, go it.
Tom

 

[Orbit]

Where does it end? The Muslim grocery checker who won't sell you that beer? The Mormon who won't sell you that Pepsi? Civil society needs to be free of religious prejudice.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I have to wonder if those who support this guy would also support a business that refused to serve christians and/or whites, or if they would hypocritically screech and squeal in outrage.

Didn't they say he didn't refuse people outright but rather he didn't make a specific product?

 

[Ellen Brown]

What is your take on the relative merits of revealing and hiding one's transgenderism?

I was "thought" to be trans, but found out that I am XXY, non-kleinfelter's, but raised as male. To look at me, the intersex part is obvious. Even still, the ignorant insist that I am trans, but I am developing tolerance toward them. Mostly, people want a binary world because that is what they were taught, and the Bible, according to their interpretation insists upon. The reality is that there are just lots of us genetic misfits running around. I started living as me almost 15 years ago. To reassure the squeamish, I have no biological sexual organs now, hence no sexual orientation, no desire and do not bed with anyone. It took me a long time to understand that wanting a companion was just loneliness. That is about as psychologically naked as I am willing to make myself.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I see it now. A prediction into the future.... A future of Muslims being forced to sell pork products, Mormons now must have a coffee service in . .. oh my.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Where does it end? The Muslim grocery checker who won't sell you that beer? The Mormon who won't sell you that Pepsi? Civil society needs to be free of religious prejudice.

That would be your fantasy. There is a Muslim store owner that sells beer right down the road, and I know Mormons who drink pop.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I see it now. A prediction into the future.... A future of Muslims being forced to sell pork products, Mormons now must have a coffee service in . .. oh my.

You may not know that in many stores in my area, non-Halal products have a special label.

 

[Holdasown]

Long hair on a guys

AGAIN- he did not refuse to serve anyone, he refused to be forced into creating something that went against his beliefs. Here's a perfect example: I refused to perform the song "Brown Sugar" by the Rolling Stones after I read the lyrics. Should I be forced into doing this song simply because some one demands it?

Sorry but why would you be required to do that song? He is a baker by nature of the business.