Anti-choicers: this is the fruit of your labour

[England my lionheart]

A ten-year-old pregnant girl - so by definition, a victim of rape and someone whose pregnancy is a threat to her life - has been denied an abortion under Ohio's abortion rules, newly-enabled by the overturning of Roe v. Wade:


https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3544588-10-year-old-girl-denied-abortion-in-ohio/

Anti-choicers: this is the completely foreseeable result of what you've fought for for decades, so if you tell me again that you support abortion in the case of rape or to save the life of the pregnant person, I hope you'll understand when I call you liars and hypocrites.

In your rhetoric, you acknowledge that this sort of action on the part of the state shouldn't happen, so you know that it's wrong... but you enable it anyway. The anti-choice movenent is wilfully evil, even by its own warped standards. Reflect on that, then do something to fix the mess you've created.

This boils my blood,an Irish friend was raped in Ireland and was forbidden to have an abortion,so much better to have her baby and be reminded of her trauma for the rest of her life,she was made to feel like she was guilty,she had to come to the UK to have one.

 

[Alien826]

I really wonder if this case made anyone switch their position that overruling Roe v. Wade was a good decision. There are anti-choicers who stated they wouldn't like to see such things. Now they do.
If you are one of them, do you admit you were wrong?

I'm not one of them, not at all! But I imagine the responses would be one of the following.

- The child has a right to life regardless of the circumstances of the mother.
- The general rule is good, these outliers need to be cleared up and treated as exceptions.

I've have known a few of these people. They live and breathe anti abortion. It comes into every conversation. It overrides any other consideration when voting. All they can see is the murder of innocents, nothing else can be more important than that.

For those that think I'm being extreme, I do get it. If I had their point of view I'd probably be just as obsessed. They're not likely to change their minds, is my point.

By the way, at the time of posting this I don't see any of our Pro-life friends commenting on this thread.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Sadly, there are too extremist sides.
There is no middle ground possible.

Abortion is a zero-sum game, so compromise on both sides is needed.

 

[sun rise]

Trump failed in his own coup Jan 6.
But prior to that, he succeeded in his takeover of SCOTUS.
One might say the Pope staged that coup.
But which is puppet & which is pawn....Trump or Pope?

The current Pope goes beyond abortion to a culture where such things as medical care are seen as a right (as it is in civilized countries) compared to the case in the primitive United States.

 

[Revoltingest]

Abortion with no limitations?
Even at the 30th week of pregnancy?

I never said without limit.
Ideally, the decision would be the mother's.
Her judgment would mean self imposed limits.
However in the real world of politics, there'd
be some compromise that would preserve
99.999% of the right.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Sadly, there are too extremist sides.
There is no middle ground possible.

Of course there's a middle ground. It's just one that a bunch of people would rather not take, preferring to force others to behave according to their one will.

The middle ground? Make intelligent sex education available from a reasonably early age. Teach kids the meaning of love, and the value of love in a sexual relationship. Teach them self-respect, and how to delay gratification (look up the marshmallow experiment).

When the inevitable happens, make sure there's enough help readily available, and the support to make carrying a pregnancy to term bearable, even though there may be no desire to keep the child.

And after all of that, when a woman decides what she truly wants to do, for her own reasons, be prepared to do what you would have others do to you -- respect her decision and let her to live her life.

 

[Revoltingest]

The current Pope goes beyond abortion to a culture where such things as medical care are seen as a right (as it is in civilized countries) compared to the case in the primitive United States.

Not all medical care is a right to the Pope, eg, abortion.
And it's his guidance that now steers 6 of 9 SCOTUS
justices, many legislator, & many judges.

We're supposed to be tolerant of religion. And I am...
...to an extent. But 6/9 justices on SCOTUS being
Catholic? This is wrong. For Christian fundies to
seek this extent of control, & to impose their religious
beliefs upon others is dang near treasonous.

Murder is different in that all people of all faiths &
non-faiths agree that killing a human (after birth) must
be illegal. But beliefs about the start of a human life?
People are all over the map. And most Ameristanians
now favor abortion rights. For fundies to impose their
narrow definition of human life's beginning without a
general consensus is a theocratic coup.
They must be defeated in this.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

All of these kinds of Americans have the same implicit message: I don't care what you want. I don't care what frightens you. I don't care what harms you.

You left out just one thing: "But I do want to speak for you."

 

[ChristineM]

They will not reveal any detail about this very extraordinarily weird story.
To begin with, a child who has her first period at 10 is objectively rare.
So...this makes me think that she used to be raped even before she hit puberty.

Makes sense.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We are speaking of a minor, here.
The word choice does not even apply to this case, since such choices can only be taken by who has parental authority.

In this case, the state even takes that away from parents.

 

[Estro Felino]

I never said without limit.
Ideally, the decision would be the mother's.
Her judgment would mean self imposed limits.
However in the real world of politics, there'd
be some compromise that would preserve
99.999% of the right.

It all boils down to the vision of Government, State each person has.

If someone believes that healthcare must necessarily be 100% private, all choices regarding healthcare (including abortion) will be private and the Government will never interfere.

But...since I believe in the socialist State as a supreme entity, I think that the State has the duty to monitor individualistic choices, whenever they try to undermine the common Good.

 

[Estro Felino]

In this case, the state even takes that away from parents.

Exactly.
Did the parents know?
How did it happen?

 

[Revoltingest]

It all boils down to the vision of Government, State each person has.

If someone believes that healthcare must necessarily be 100% private, all choices regarding healthcare (including abortion) will be private and the Government will never interfere.

To the fundies....
Abortion =/= Health Care

But...since I believe in the socialist State as a supreme entity, I think that the State has the duty to monitor individualistic choices, whenever they try to undermine the common Good.

There's wide disagreement on the "common good".
Also, I'm less a fan of the state monitoring our choices.
I'd loathe living in a hive.

 

[Psalm23]

I'm not one of them, not at all! But I imagine the responses would be one of the following.

- The child has a right to life regardless of the circumstances of the mother.
- The general rule is good, these outliers need to be cleared up and treated as exceptions.

I've have known a few of these people. They live and breathe anti abortion. It comes into every conversation. It overrides any other consideration when voting. All they can see is the murder of innocents, nothing else can be more important than that.

For those that think I'm being extreme, I do get it. If I had their point of view I'd probably be just as obsessed. They're not likely to change their minds, is my point.

By the way, at the time of posting this I don't see any of our Pro-life friends commenting on this thread.

You have covered my position on this pretty well. I believe there should be exceptions for the life of the mom. At her age, her body is not ready for pregnancy and a child her age could die in labor. It has happened to other girls unfortunately .

 

[SomeRandom]

Abortion with no limitations?
Even at the 30th week of pregnancy?

I’m in favour of that, only because late term abortions are among the most medically necessary.

 

[Sand Dancer]

It all boils down to the vision of Government, State each person has.

If someone believes that healthcare must necessarily be 100% private, all choices regarding healthcare (including abortion) will be private and the Government will never interfere.

But...since I believe in the socialist State as a supreme entity, I think that the State has the duty to monitor individualistic choices, whenever they try to undermine the common Good.

America has a different view than the other first world nations. They are more about community and what happens to other people. We are uber religious and selfish, so as long as we keep those things important, we will continue to lag behind.

 

[Estro Felino]

There's wide disagreement on the "common good".
Also, I'm less a fan of the state monitoring our choices.
I'd loathe living in a hive.

In a totally liberal society such horrific episodes would triple.
Because there might be parents who rape their own daughters, get them pregnant and make them have an abortion. Multiple times.

Whereas in a monitoring State, people would never succeed in doing such things behind the Government's back.

 

[Revoltingest]

In a totally liberal society such horrific episodes would triple.
Because there might be parents who rape their own daughters, get them pregnant and make them have an abortion. Multiple times.

Whereas in a monitoring State, people would never succeed in doing such dirty things behind the Government's back.

Are you not aware that there is a strong consensus
that raping progeny....raping anyone....is wrong.
To allow abortion wouldn't change that.

Continuous surveillance of every person in order to
detect crime is a solution far worse than the crimes.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Maybe another question is what will happen to the thousands of unwanted babies who will live in misery and abuse. Are the anti-abortion people willing to pay for the care of helpless neglected abandoned children?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Maybe another question is what will happen to the thousands of unwanted babies who will live in misery and abuse. Are the anti-abortion people willing to pay for the care of helpless neglected abandoned children?

What do you think?