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Another Christian Dilemma

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
As to the question, I'll say that just because poetic justice isn't popular today, doesn't mean it wasn't before or that it won't be again.
The death of Jesus Christ represents mans willingness to love his brother more than himself, as well as it represents God's willingness to work with us, even with our sinful nature -it's mercy.

The resurection of Christ represents the glory of God and the ascention represents our eternal salvation.

It's a beautiful thing.
There's nothing poetic about it. God made things, a chunk of Angels fell and humans sinned, so instead of trying to rectify the situation god promises a messiah, and when the alleged messiah arrived he was tortured to death, supposedly taking the wrap for the sins of others. It doesn't make any since that he would kill himself to prove his love. He could have done that forgiveness thing from the start. But he didn't. It's more of a huge guilt trip.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Considering scientific evidence states that the universe is expanding infinitely (or to infinity) and considering there are perhaps billions of planets, God being the ruler of the universe why of all the planets that exist and the possible life forms that are more ancient than human beings why is God’s “only son” a human?

All things considered if we took a more logical approach at what is more likely than not, why would God choose a human and not some other life form like an amoeba? What is so important about being a human among all the possible creatures in the universe why choose a human being?

Cause god was created by the human image. There's nothing I know so far about the abrahamic god that doesnt share a want/need or has some reflection of the human psych. Some say humans were created in the image of god. If that be so, we would be like god. Image has perfections of the source. Once the image "sins" its no longer make sense to be the imsge od the source since the sourcr cant sin.

So, it has to be human. We dont know god enough to know anything outside of what we were taught to know, experience, and interpret the world. Some people get it, others dont.

But since god (abrahamic) is a reflection of human thought, its got to be human. Abrahamic meaning Jewishx Muslim, and non-trinitarian christian. I lean more towards the jewish god. Since Im not jewish, if I picked out of the three.

Thats my answer. Gotta be. God is made of our image not the other way around.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
There's nothing poetic about it. God made things, a chunk of Angels fell and humans sinned, so instead of trying to rectify the situation god promises a messiah, and when the alleged messiah arrived he was tortured to death, supposedly taking the wrap for the sins of others. It doesn't make any since that he would kill himself to prove his love. He could have done that forgiveness thing from the start. But he didn't. It's more of a huge guilt trip.

I get the feeling we're just going to go around and around on this one.

...So we disagree on God. That's okay. I was raised Catholic, and even though I'm a pretty heavy sinner, I'm stuck where I'm at for good. I'm the type who stays the same. Probably you are too.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is only the made up Gospel of John that deems him begotten, which the Quran challenged rightly that how can God who owns reality, beget anything.
Well, he was a human so one way or another he was begotten.

In the earliest gospel, Mark, he's an ordinary human until he's baptized by John, at which point God adopts him as God's son: Mark 1:10 [...] he saw the heavens opened and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove 11 and a voice came from heaven, 'Thou art my beloved Son: with thee I am well pleased'. As Acts 13:33 expressly confirms, this refers to Psalm 2:7 I will tell you of the decree of the Lord: / He said to me, "You are my son, today I have begotten you". The same idea is in Psalm 89:26-27 and in 2 Samuel 7:14 (all regarding King David).

So first up, Jesus is the 'begotten' son of Yahweh only in metaphor. His Y chromosome is not from Yahweh.

In Luke expressly and in Matthew implicitly, Jesus' Y chromosome is indeed from Yahweh. (This accords with Greek tradition where gods have children by copulation with mortals all the time.)
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
But God stepped out to get a pack of smokes and never game back. Not even a monthly support cheque.
I was talking about us and our very existence. We wouldn't be if G-d was not. It is the soul that animates us and the soul is the Divine Spark. In Jewish theology, G-d wakes us every morning, as sleep is a kind of death. I was talking about this kind of thing.
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I was talking about us and our very existence. We wouldn't be if G-d was not. It is the soul that animates us and the souls is the Divine Spark. In Jewish theology, G-d wakes us every morning, as sleep is a kind of death. I was talking about this kind of thing.

Understood. I was just being facetious. ;)
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Its not really.....God did not create the devil (who was a spirit being without defect originally, but with free will.) The devil is self made....just as a murderer is not born, but is self-made by the abuse of free will.

Creating perfect humans with free will was a catalyst for the one who was beginning to envy what God was receiving. Satan was a "covering Cherub" (a spirit guardian that God had placed in a position of responsibility) in Eden.

Ezekiel 28: 13-17....
"In Eden, the garden of God you were; every precious stone was [set in] your covering;.....14 You were a cherub of great measure, that covers, and I gave that to you; you were on the mount of the sanctuary of God: you walked among stones of fire. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created until wrongdoing was found in you...... they filled you with violence and you sinned, and I shall cast you as profane from the mountain of God, and I shall destroy you, O covering cherub, from among the stones of fire......17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty; you destroyed your wisdom with your brightness; I have cast you upon the ground; I have set you before kings to gaze upon you."

Yechezkel - Ezekiel - Chapter 28


Satan was formerly a magnificent creature of high rank in heaven and he was appointed to a guardianship position over the new humans. He was right there observing what these humans were doing and he began to put his evil thoughts into action by planning a subtle attack. Up until that time, there is no mention of free will being tested in heaven....but now it would be tested to the limit in both angels and humans. The outcome, though painful, would create precedents of all time to come. No one will dare abuse their free will again because retribution will then be instantaneous.

All questions can be answered if you use the whole Bible......but first you have to know what it teaches.
This is not talking about the satan, it's talking about a king of Tyre whose luxury G-d compared to living in Eden; but in his wealth and luxury he became arrogant and now G-d is bringing him down. It says this in the opening passages,

"Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre: So said the Lord God: Because your heart is proud, and you said, 'I am a god, I have sat in a seat of God, in the heart of the seas,' but you are a man and not a god, yet you have made your heart like the heart of God."
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
This is not talking about the satan, it's talking about a king of Tyre whose luxury G-d compared to living in Eden; but in his wealth and luxury he became arrogant and now G-d is bringing him down. It says this in the opening passages,

"Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre: So said the Lord God: Because your heart is proud, and you said, 'I am a god, I have sat in a seat of God, in the heart of the seas,' but you are a man and not a god, yet you have made your heart like the heart of God."

Yes, it was addressed to the King of Tyre, but unless he was a covering cherub in the Garden of Eden, and walked about on the fiery stones, it is more pointedly directed to satan. It is a clear description of satan's fall.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, it was addressed to the King of Tyre, but unless he was a covering cherub in the Garden of Eden, and walked about on the fiery stones, it is more pointedly directed to satan. It is a clear description of satan's fall.
It's an allegory of the King's behaviour. Satan has nothing to do with this passage. G-d also called the judges 'gods', but we aren't polytheists.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
@Epic Beard Man sorry about derailing your thread. We've apparently decided to make it 'Another and Another and Another Christian Dilemma'.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
It's an allegory of the King's behaviour. Satan has nothing to do with this passage. G-d also called the judges 'gods', but we aren't polytheists.

The passage is referring back to Eden and a covering Cherub, which is an angel of high rank, like Seraphs.
You cannot separate satan from that passage. It is saying that the King was like satan.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
The passage is referring back to Eden and a covering Cherub, which is an angel of high rank, like Seraphs.
You cannot separate satan from that passage. It is saying that the King was like satan.
Where is satan mentioned though? All that is happening here is that the King's lifestyle is being compared to the bliss of living in Eden and this made him think himself a god, after which G-d brought him down. At first he was a 'cherub' in paradise, a common metaphor for a good person, but now he's brought low.

"Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, So said the Lord God: You are the one who engraves images, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. In Eden, the garden of God you were; every precious stone was [set in] your covering; ruby, topaz, diamond, chrysolite, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, carbuncle, and crystal and gold; the work of your drums and your orifices is in you; on the day of your creation they were established."


and


"Because of the multitude of your commerce, they filled you with violence and you sinned, and I shall cast you as profane from the mountain of God, and I shall destroy you, O covering cherub, from among the stones of fire."


The stones of fire are the Hebrews and The King is being blotted from the memory of his association with helping to stablish the Temple on the mountain.

Nothing about satan at all.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Where is satan mentioned though? All that is happening here is that the King's lifestyle is being compared to the bliss of living in Eden and this made him think himself a god, after which G-d brought him down. At first he was a 'cherub' in paradise, a common metaphor for a good person, but now he's brought low.

"Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, So said the Lord God: You are the one who engraves images, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. In Eden, the garden of God you were; every precious stone was [set in] your covering; ruby, topaz, diamond, chrysolite, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, carbuncle, and crystal and gold; the work of your drums and your orifices is in you; on the day of your creation they were established."


and


"Because of the multitude of your commerce, they filled you with violence and you sinned, and I shall cast you as profane from the mountain of God, and I shall destroy you, O covering cherub, from among the stones of fire."


The stones of fire are the Hebrews and The King is being blotted from the memory of his association with helping to stablish the Temple on the mountain.

Nothing about satan at all.

Its all in the interpretation my friend. That is not the way I read that passage.
 

Pudding

Well-Known Member
Considering scientific evidence states that the universe is expanding infinitely (or to infinity) and considering there are perhaps billions of planets, God being the ruler of the universe why of all the planets that exist and the possible life forms that are more ancient than human beings why is God’s “only son” a human?

All things considered if we took a more logical approach at what is more likely than not, why would God choose a human and not some other life form like an amoeba? What is so important about being a human among all the possible creatures in the universe why choose a human being?
It's superstitions and hearsay.

Dumped a story book in underground/cave, or write a story book about the creator of the universe and self-appointed oneself to be this creator's true messenger.

For example:
The Holy Unicorn (Honicorn) is the creator of the universe, he creates humanity from rainbow dust. Humanity went corrupted, the consequence is that humanity will stay in rainbow hell and be in a scary uncomfy rainbow state for eternity, so scary it is. In order to save humanity, Honicorn's son (in human form) appear under the end of rainbow, he is our saviour, his name is Rainbow.

Is there any evidence to support Honicorn and Rainbow's existence?
Yes, there are. The story book of Honicorn is the evidence! The book says that many people will disbelieve in Honicorn, the book also prophecy the appearance of Rainbow, many other geological evidence and facts are inside it. Sometimes, preaching to aunicornist is like putting pearl in front of swine, their hearts are so harden, they're spiritually blind. (Add in many other ambiguous prophesies and unverifiable statements). Do anyone really want to go to rainbow hell? If not, then pray to Honicorn, accept Rainbow as your savior before it's too late!

This life is a test, there may be scientific discovery or evidence which try to disproves Honicorn's existence, don't believe in any one of them, they're lie of the Ew (Evil Wacky Unicorn). Have faith in Honicorn, believe and you'll see.

Aunicornism is popular these days, it's the sign of the end. We have come to the time of wickedness, ununicornliness show up here and there. Those immoral aunicornist will be regret one day.

Honicorn oppose many science technologies and medical treatment, you cannot engage in any such activity. So how about the people who get sick and need to get medical treatment? No, Honicorn's rule is more important than people's life. Go, dispose your car, throw out your handphone and computer. Now handout 99.99% of your monthly income to Honicorn's self-appointed true messenger, because Honicorn says so in his story book, because a human who self-appointed themselves as Honicorn's true messenger says so.

If Honicorn doesn't exists, there's no ultimate objective meaning to life, your monthly income and car/gadget are nothing, we die and we lose nothing. If Honicorn exists and you're disobedient you get sent to rainbow hell.

You lose nothing when you choose to believe in and follow Honicorn.

Why would anyone want to disbelieve in Honicorn is beyond my understanding. Why don't aunicornists believe? There is nothing to lose afterall. If Honicorn doesn't exists and there's no afterlife, you will just cease to exist, you lose nothing. But if Honicorn exists and you don't believe in him, you will be going to rainbow hell and stay there for eternity; if you believe in him you will be allow to stay in rainbow heaven and get the chance to happily worship Honicorn for eternity. That is just a very easy decision to make, believe in Honicorn and obey him, because you got nothing to lose.

Honicorn says that left handed, stamp collector and ice cream eater are all abominations, you must deal with those abominations according to what Honicorn says in his story book.

You must follow Honicorn's self-appointed true messenger's true interpretation about honicorn's rules and morals. There might be fake messengers appear here and there, don't believe in anyone of them, they have been deceived by Ew.

Don't question any injustice/immoral/illogical/irrational things about Honicorn's story book and his self-appointed true messenger's true interpretation, because Honicorn's way is higher than our ways, all we have to do is just follow whatever they order us to do and have faith in them. Don't ask them to provide physical evidence to support their claims or existence, it's silly if you do so. Honicorn live in spiritual unicorn realms, we can only get spiritual evidence of Honicorn when we have faith in him. Physical evidence is irrelevant.

They also don't have the burden of proof to support their claims or existence, you have to prove yourself worthy to them, you have to prove them wrong.




Here are some important questions:
We know the universe is expanding infinitely, there are billions of planets. Honicorn being the creator of the universe, why of all the planets that exist and the possible life forms that are more ancient than human beings, why is Honicorn’s only son a human?

Why would Honicorn choose a human and not some other life form like an amoeba, germ, virus, cell or atom? What is so important about being a human among all the possible creatures in the universe why choose a human being? Hmm, maybe because Honicorn creates humans in his image, that's the reason.

Why would he choose son instead of daugther? What is so important being a son? Hmm, maybe because son is stronger than daughter, daughter is weak or have other responsibility Because Honicorn says so.

Why would he choose a son who likes to drink wine instead a son who prefer apple juice? What is so important about wine? Hmm, maybe that's because wine is very holy, wine is holy because Honicorn says so.

Why would he choose a son who prefer grape wine instead a son who prefer whisky? What is so important about grape wine?

Why would he choose a son who live in village A instead a son who live in village B?
What is so important about village B?

Why would he choose a son who likes to collecting stamps instead a son who prefer jogging? What is so important about collecting stamps?
 
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