Amazon Has Banned Conversion Therapy Books; Will the Bible Be Next?

[Enoch07]

Seriously though, Stephen Fry weren’t lying when he told the Ex Gay therapist guy he could easily pass for a gay guy lol

Is that not stereo typing though? Or maybe your thinking of the social construct that passes as a gay man?

That being said. There is no such thing as a "gay" personality. A man can just be more feminine and straight. He is just a bit feminine. Same goes for women. A woman can just be more masculine and be straight. She is just masculine. Or vice versa insert any LGBT in place of straight.

The human psyche is extremely complex. Stephen Fry was showing a bit of his own ignorance and bias there I'm afraid.

 

[SomeRandom]

Is that not stereo typing though? Or maybe your thinking of the social construct that passes as a gay man?

That being said. There is no such thing as a "gay" personality. A man can just be more feminine and straight. He is just a bit feminine. Same goes for women. A woman can just be more masculine and be straight. She is just masculine. Or vice versa insert any LGBT in place of straight.

The human psyche is extremely complex. Stephen Fry was showing a bit of his own ignorance and bias there I'm afraid.

Oh I agree. Some “effeminate” characteristics do exist in all different types of men. Some gay, some straight, some bi some I dunno, asexual etc etc.

That said, I feel like people, women in particular, seem to have an unconscious “gay dar” happening. Whether that is just social bias or perhaps a form of sexual interplay between the sexes I don’t know.
I do remember we were pretty accurate “scoping out the gays” back in high school. (All in jest, of course.)

I suspect Fry was just trolling a little to see what his reaction would be. A bit dry, to be sure. But it seemed more a humorous jab than a factual statement of Fry’s analysis of the man.

 

[sooda]

.

"This week, Amazon removed books from its website by the late Joseph Nicolosi, the so-called “father of conversion therapy.” Nicolosi spent his career convincing people they could change their sexual orientation and that homosexuality was something that needed to (and could) be prevented. He died in 2017.

For months now, activists have been pushing for Amazon to stop letting gay torture advocates use the company to funnel its products. One petition at Change.org had over 80,000 signatures and argued that Nicolosi’s books have led to “mental health issues including depression, self-harm, and suicide.” For Amazon to profit from that was appalling.

And now those books are off the site. They’re still available elsewhere, but Amazon isn’t offering them. Good on them.

Now Dr. Michael Brown* at Charisma is worried that Amazon will come after the Bible next.

… for claiming that sexual orientation is not innate and immutable, and for claiming that change is possible, [Amazon says] Dr. Nicolosi’s books must be banned.

This leads to the logical question: Will Amazon ban the Bible next? There is no hyperbole here.

Why, then, should Amazon ban his books but continue to sell the Bible, which provides the theological underpinnings for Dr. Nicolosi’s scientific work?

After all, gay critics of the Bible refer to the so-called “clobber passages,” referring to verses which have been used to speak against homosexual practice. If these verses, then, have brought such harm to the gay community, why shouldn’t the book containing these verses be banned?

​

As hilarious as it would be for Amazon to ban all versions of the Bible for all the mental anguish that book has caused, Brown, as is so often the case with him, misses the obvious.

There’s a difference between books that promote harm and cruelty and books people claim justify hate and cruelty. Plenty of progressive Christians would argue the biblical “clobber verses” are taken out of context and that their holy book isn’t nearly as bigoted as conservatives might suggest.

Amazon isn’t censoring Nicolosi because his views are politically incorrect. They’re not selling his books because they’re providing a guidebook for torture. It’s the same reason they got rid of books that claimed drinking bleach could “cure” autism.

If the issue was merely that of disagreement, Amazon couldn’t sell anything concerning religious or politics. This isn’t about a bad opinion. (Amazon is still selling books written by conservative writers.) It’s about immoral, illegal advocacy. It’s about getting rid of a book that leads to death.

There’s no slippery slope. There is no First Amendment violation. There is only hyperbole.
source​

* In the past Brown has been criticized in Charlotte [North Carolina] by the local LGBTQ community for holding a rally in protest of their 2009 Charlotte Pride Festival. The Southern Poverty Law Center has profiled him for his promotion of "junk science" on topics connected to sexual orientation, such as in his regular claims that homosexuality is caused by childhood trauma and his support for conversion therapy. In September 2012, the organization named him in their list of "30 New Activists Heading Up the Radical Right." In March 2014, Brown traveled to Peru to promote anti-gay laws. He has also defended Uganda's criminalization of homosexuality. He has said gays should be treated with respect and dignity.

Brown was criticized for citing the white supremacist website Stormfront in an article "asking whether it was time for another Jesus Movement among Jewish millennials".[10] He apologized, saying he was not aware what the site was.
Source: Wikipedia


Homophobia is just a gay pride parade away.
.

Dr. Michael Brown may be an idiot.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So the thread title is misleading. Amazon didn't ban conversion therapy books.
Amazon.com: gay conversion therapy

Amazon allegedly banned books by one author of gay conversion therapy books.

And not all of JN's materials are gone from Amazon. Though the Christophobes will likely flood Amazon with demands they do clear all materials even bearing anything to do with just his name.
Amazon.com: Joseph Nicolosi: Books

What Amazon doesn't get is, people seek out this kind of therapy. Be they families of homosexuals or Trans afflicted persons. Or those persons themselves who want to not be homosexual or who want to be comfortable in their God given bodies.

The movement to stifle that free choice is in the wrong. Not the therapy that is there for people who wish to to take advantage of.

Amazon didn't ban anything. As a private company, they chose to discontinue stocking a certain item. That is their right. Amazon has no power to "ban" anything. You're still free to read books about torturing gay people all you like.

 

[sooda]

Amazon didn't ban anything. As a private company, they chose to discontinue stocking a certain item. That is their right. Amazon has no power to "ban" anything. You're still free to read books about torturing gay people all you like.

Thank you. I couldn't respond rationally. Michele Bachman's effeminate husband got government grants for years to practice "conversion" therapy.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Here is Joseph Nicolosi:

Watch his face when Fry says he could pass as a gay man
The whole Conversion Therapy movement is a huge scam, unscrupulous people taking advantage of the fear and desperate of weak minded people who believe that if they don't stop being gay God isn't going to love them anymore

There has been one on the forum trying to insist that all homosexuals have been sexually abused as children, and I will usually point out that even though this happened to me (by an older boy) I didn't turn out to be homosexual. But - it did confuse me for a number of years after the incidents, so I wouldn't entirely discount our early experiences as not being a factor in determining or contributing to our sexuality. I wasn't at all sexually attracted to males before or after (eventually), even though one of my best friends would likely have been called effeminate at the time - liked wearing bow-ties and such - but I knew he wasn't since he had a number of girlfriends.

Fry, in one of his books, was a bit disturbing, when he detailed how he was essentially raped by an older boy at school and just passed the incident off as 'nothing much' - how honest is that - and his mention of his father might perhaps have something to do with his homosexuality, since our relationships with our fathers is just as important as with our mothers - who knows?

Conversion therapy does seem to be rather negative unless someone has suspicions that they might actually or could be rather different given a different set of circumstances. And these days, in many places at least, it hardly matters.

 

[Salvador]

Will the Koran be next?

If the Bible were banned, then so should the Koran.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I thought this was more like "Christophobia is on full display". It's been paraded non-stop!

Calling out conversion therapy for yhe destructive bullux it is is not " Christophobia," it is years and years and years of research, data, and studies that have revealed trends of general ineffectiveness and alarming trends of causing deep psychological harm and damage to those undergoing it. Lobotomies still has its defenders, but regardless what a few felt suitable the barbaric and damaging practice was put to an end.

 

[Sand Dancer]

(pssst..we are joking around. don't tell anyone)

Whew! That did seem unlike you. But some people do have that attitude.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I thought this was more like "Christophobia is on full display". It's been paraded non-stop!

Maybe if it was a tenet of all of Christianity to be so against LGBT that it promotes an ineffective and blatantly harmful therapy practice, yes.

 

[Sand Dancer]

If the Bible were banned, then so should the Koran.

The Bible mentions death to gays, the Quran does not. The Hadith does, however.

 

[Neutral Name]

.

"This week, Amazon removed books from its website by the late Joseph Nicolosi, the so-called “father of conversion therapy.” Nicolosi spent his career convincing people they could change their sexual orientation and that homosexuality was something that needed to (and could) be prevented. He died in 2017.

For months now, activists have been pushing for Amazon to stop letting gay torture advocates use the company to funnel its products. One petition at Change.org had over 80,000 signatures and argued that Nicolosi’s books have led to “mental health issues including depression, self-harm, and suicide.” For Amazon to profit from that was appalling.

And now those books are off the site. They’re still available elsewhere, but Amazon isn’t offering them. Good on them.

Now Dr. Michael Brown* at Charisma is worried that Amazon will come after the Bible next.

… for claiming that sexual orientation is not innate and immutable, and for claiming that change is possible, [Amazon says] Dr. Nicolosi’s books must be banned.

This leads to the logical question: Will Amazon ban the Bible next? There is no hyperbole here.

Why, then, should Amazon ban his books but continue to sell the Bible, which provides the theological underpinnings for Dr. Nicolosi’s scientific work?

After all, gay critics of the Bible refer to the so-called “clobber passages,” referring to verses which have been used to speak against homosexual practice. If these verses, then, have brought such harm to the gay community, why shouldn’t the book containing these verses be banned?

​

As hilarious as it would be for Amazon to ban all versions of the Bible for all the mental anguish that book has caused, Brown, as is so often the case with him, misses the obvious.

There’s a difference between books that promote harm and cruelty and books people claim justify hate and cruelty. Plenty of progressive Christians would argue the biblical “clobber verses” are taken out of context and that their holy book isn’t nearly as bigoted as conservatives might suggest.

Amazon isn’t censoring Nicolosi because his views are politically incorrect. They’re not selling his books because they’re providing a guidebook for torture. It’s the same reason they got rid of books that claimed drinking bleach could “cure” autism.

If the issue was merely that of disagreement, Amazon couldn’t sell anything concerning religious or politics. This isn’t about a bad opinion. (Amazon is still selling books written by conservative writers.) It’s about immoral, illegal advocacy. It’s about getting rid of a book that leads to death.

There’s no slippery slope. There is no First Amendment violation. There is only hyperbole.
source
​

* In the past Brown has been criticized in Charlotte [North Carolina] by the local LGBTQ community for holding a rally in protest of their 2009 Charlotte Pride Festival. The Southern Poverty Law Center has profiled him for his promotion of "junk science" on topics connected to sexual orientation, such as in his regular claims that homosexuality is caused by childhood trauma and his support for conversion therapy. In September 2012, the organization named him in their list of "30 New Activists Heading Up the Radical Right." In March 2014, Brown traveled to Peru to promote anti-gay laws. He has also defended Uganda's criminalization of homosexuality. He has said gays should be treated with respect and dignity.

Brown was criticized for citing the white supremacist website Stormfront in an article "asking whether it was time for another Jesus Movement among Jewish millennials".[10] He apologized, saying he was not aware what the site was.
Source: Wikipedia


Homophobia is just a gay pride parade away.
.

Thank you. There is so much that could be said here. First, Jesus did away with many things in the Old Testament laws. I believe that he would not have felt that homosexuality was a sin. Second, even if it was, all have sinned and fallen short and so are not to judge. Third, the "good Christians" who are so homophobic ignore the more important aspects of the Bible such as the fact that Jesus said that love was above all other things and that Christians are to love all people, not hate people. They don't protest, either, about people committing sins written in the Ten Commandments. Adultery is not commented on or opposed. Liars are not opposed. In fact, our President, who is backed by many evangelical "Christians" has admitted that he is a liar but that does not bother these "Christians" at all. They have no concern for anyone breaking any of the Ten Commandments. That seems strange to me since Jesus spoke of the Commandments. Fourth, in the past, it has been reported that some pastors have learned that there is evidence that people are born homosexual. It is not a sin. They have agreed that conversion therapy was not the answer and that LGBTQ people should be accepted as they are. The homophobia of these "Christians" is not a Christian belief. It is simply discrimination against a group of people who they feel they can control. These people are evil because of their hate. God is love and cannot tolerate hateful people. They are in no way Christians. If there is a Heaven, they aren't going.

 

[sooda]

Thank you. There is so much that could be said here. First, Jesus did away with many things in the Old Testament laws. I believe that he would not have felt that homosexuality was a sin. Second, even if it was, all have sinned and fallen short and so are not to judge. Third, the "good Christians" who are so homophobic ignore the more important aspects of the Bible such as the fact that Jesus said that love was above all other things and that Christians are to love all people, not hate people. They don't protest, either, about people committing sins written in the Ten Commandments. Adultery is not commented on or opposed. Liars are not opposed. In fact, our President, who is backed by many evangelical "Christians" has admitted that he is a liar but that does not bother these "Christians" at all. They have no concern for anyone breaking any of the Ten Commandments. That seems strange to me since Jesus spoke of the Commandments. Fourth, in the past, it has been reported that some pastors have learned that there is evidence that people are born homosexual. It is not a sin. They have agreed that conversion therapy was not the answer and that LGBTQ people should be accepted as they are. The homophobia of these "Christians" is not a Christian belief. It is simply discrimination against a group of people who they feel they can control. These people are evil because of their hate. God is love and cannot tolerate hateful people. They are in no way Christians. If there is a Heaven, they aren't going.

The Christians who are supporting Trump have shifted the rules.. Now they have decided that God uses bad people for Holy purposes.

 

[sealchan]

.

"This week, Amazon removed books from its website by the late Joseph Nicolosi, the so-called “father of conversion therapy.” Nicolosi spent his career convincing people they could change their sexual orientation and that homosexuality was something that needed to (and could) be prevented. He died in 2017.

For months now, activists have been pushing for Amazon to stop letting gay torture advocates use the company to funnel its products. One petition at Change.org had over 80,000 signatures and argued that Nicolosi’s books have led to “mental health issues including depression, self-harm, and suicide.” For Amazon to profit from that was appalling.

And now those books are off the site. They’re still available elsewhere, but Amazon isn’t offering them. Good on them.

Now Dr. Michael Brown* at Charisma is worried that Amazon will come after the Bible next.

… for claiming that sexual orientation is not innate and immutable, and for claiming that change is possible, [Amazon says] Dr. Nicolosi’s books must be banned.

This leads to the logical question: Will Amazon ban the Bible next? There is no hyperbole here.

Why, then, should Amazon ban his books but continue to sell the Bible, which provides the theological underpinnings for Dr. Nicolosi’s scientific work?

After all, gay critics of the Bible refer to the so-called “clobber passages,” referring to verses which have been used to speak against homosexual practice. If these verses, then, have brought such harm to the gay community, why shouldn’t the book containing these verses be banned?

​

As hilarious as it would be for Amazon to ban all versions of the Bible for all the mental anguish that book has caused, Brown, as is so often the case with him, misses the obvious.

There’s a difference between books that promote harm and cruelty and books people claim justify hate and cruelty. Plenty of progressive Christians would argue the biblical “clobber verses” are taken out of context and that their holy book isn’t nearly as bigoted as conservatives might suggest.

Amazon isn’t censoring Nicolosi because his views are politically incorrect. They’re not selling his books because they’re providing a guidebook for torture. It’s the same reason they got rid of books that claimed drinking bleach could “cure” autism.

If the issue was merely that of disagreement, Amazon couldn’t sell anything concerning religious or politics. This isn’t about a bad opinion. (Amazon is still selling books written by conservative writers.) It’s about immoral, illegal advocacy. It’s about getting rid of a book that leads to death.

There’s no slippery slope. There is no First Amendment violation. There is only hyperbole.
source​

* In the past Brown has been criticized in Charlotte [North Carolina] by the local LGBTQ community for holding a rally in protest of their 2009 Charlotte Pride Festival. The Southern Poverty Law Center has profiled him for his promotion of "junk science" on topics connected to sexual orientation, such as in his regular claims that homosexuality is caused by childhood trauma and his support for conversion therapy. In September 2012, the organization named him in their list of "30 New Activists Heading Up the Radical Right." In March 2014, Brown traveled to Peru to promote anti-gay laws. He has also defended Uganda's criminalization of homosexuality. He has said gays should be treated with respect and dignity.

Brown was criticized for citing the white supremacist website Stormfront in an article "asking whether it was time for another Jesus Movement among Jewish millennials".[10] He apologized, saying he was not aware what the site was.
Source: Wikipedia


Homophobia is just a gay pride parade away.
.

It would be tempting to ban literalist interpretations of the Bible but the Bible does far more to promote universally recognized virtues than it does to promote erroneous ones such as anti-homosexuality.

With respect to literalism, I might contemplate a separate section or genre for such works so that such material can be clearly identified...maybe book covers should include a warning label...

 

[SugarOcean]

Amazon didn't ban anything. As a private company, they chose to discontinue stocking a certain item. That is their right. Amazon has no power to "ban" anything. You're still free to read books about torturing gay people all you like.

You're talking to me and I'm not the one that started the thread nor misrepresented the truth of the matter in its title.

Besides demonic supposition against myself, you're one that would that homosexuals an trans afflicted persons who do not wish to be so have no resource for the help they desperately seek. That would make you the advocate of their torture.

I knew a man who said he chose to become a homosexual because of strange encounters he'd had with his mom as a very young boy.
We were friends for years. Then one weekend he went on a pagan gathering to Florida. He was a member of the Pink Triangle coven. This was an eclectic bunch that had gathered to celebrate Beltane. And among their number was a woman he clicked with.
Long story short, they hooked up. And after he cried. Because it felt so good , so right, he said, to be there with her. All the demons of his mother and those memories vanished.
Now he considers himself bisexual. And yet, when asked, as I did, he says he prefers women.

Cynthia Nixon, an actor not seen on TV for quite awhile, years ago stated she'd chosen to become a lesbian. Boy did the fur fly when that hit the news. LGBTQ groups were outraged. How dare she! It isn't a choice!
But it can be, and is, for some people.

Extremists that think homosexuals should just shut up and stay gay, are the one's advocating torture.

Now, if you're a Roo of your word you won't respond to that. However, if you're a Roo that is of that caliber that thinks they have to always have the last personal attack and vile word...

 

[sooda]

You're talking to me and I'm not the one that started the thread nor misrepresented the truth of the matter in its title.

Besides demonic supposition against myself, you're one that would that homosexuals an trans afflicted persons who do not wish to be so have no resource for the help they desperately seek. That would make you the advocate of their torture.

I knew a man who said he chose to become a homosexual because of strange encounters he'd had with his mom as a very young boy.
We were friends for years. Then one weekend he went on a pagan gathering to Florida. He was a member of the Pink Triangle coven. This was an eclectic bunch that had gathered to celebrate Beltane. And among their number was a woman he clicked with.
Long story short, they hooked up. And after he cried. Because it felt so good , so right, he said, to be there with her. All the demons of his mother and those memories vanished.
Now he considers himself bisexual. And yet, when asked, as I did, he says he prefers women.

Cynthia Nixon, an actor not seen on TV for quite awhile, years ago stated she'd chosen to become a lesbian. Boy did the fur fly when that hit the news. LGBTQ groups were outraged. How dare she! It isn't a choice!
But it can be, and is, for some people.

Extremists that think homosexuals should just shut up and stay gay, are the one's advocating torture.

Now, if you're a Roo of your word you won't respond to that. However, if you're a Roo that is of that caliber that thinks they have to always have the last personal attack and vile word...

Wasn't too long ago that Jewish scholars and Rabbis in Israel had a lengthy conference on this matter.. and they decided that God created homosexuals too.

 

[fantome profane]

the Bible, which provides the theological underpinnings for Dr. Nicolosi’s scientific work?

Theological underpinnings for scientific work makes as much sense as tapioca pudding underpinning for a skyscraper.

 

[Salvador]

The Bible mentions death to gays, the Quran does not. The Hadith does, however.

Well, the Quran says a husband should beat his disobedient wife, the Bible does not.

 

[Kenny]

Calling out conversion therapy for yhe destructive bullux it is is not " Christophobia," it is years and years and years of research, data, and studies that have revealed trends of general ineffectiveness and alarming trends of causing deep psychological harm and damage to those undergoing it. Lobotomies still has its defenders, but regardless what a few felt suitable the barbaric and damaging practice was put to an end.

If someone wants to change... it isn't destructive.

 

[fantome profane]

If someone wants to change... it isn't destructive.

What do you base that statement on?