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Amazing Fibonacci Numbers

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
And there's also this interesting song by Tool that uses it. Interesting because you can mathematically state they might have cut a part of the song out when the pattern breaks, but the chorus does start "over thinking, over analyzing." Good song.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
And the formula is completely useless for most purposes:

F_n = (1/sqrt(5)) [ ((1+sqrt(5))/2)^n - ((1-sqrt(5))/2)^n ]
Pfffft. I use that all the time when I'm looking for new ways to comb my hair. (Okay. It takes awhile to get it just right. Having a double crown makes it complicated.)

19be944a497b775778edb6779e35c1e7--fibonacci-number-fibonacci-spiral.jpg

Given that the image above is a single crown, one can well imagine how hard it is to tame the double crown.
 
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HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
There is a math journal called 'The Fibonacci Quarterly', which actually publishes some very good mathematics. The first issues *were* devoted almost exclusively to the Fibonacci sequence, but that is no longer the case.
I'd be disappointed if they weren't devoted to the Fibonacci sequence in issues 1,2,3,5,8,13... :)
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
HAVE you ever noticed that many plants grow in spiral formations? A pineapple, for example, may have 8 spirals of scales going around one way and 5 or 13 going in the opposite direction.
images


If you look at the seeds in a sunflower, you may be able to see 55 and 89 spirals crossing over each other or perhaps even more. You may even find spirals on a cauliflower.

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Once you start noticing spirals, visits to your fruit and vegetable store may take on new interest. Why do plants grow in this way? Does the number of spirals have any significance?

How Do Plants Grow?

Most plants form new organs such as stems, leaves, and flowers from a tiny central growing point called a meristem. Each new structure, called a primordium, develops and grows out from the center in a new direction, forming an angle with the previous growth. (Curiously, the sunflower is unusual in that the florets that become seeds begin to form spirals from the rim of the head rather than the center.) Most plants arrange new growths at a unique angle that produces spirals. What angle is it?

Consider this challenge: Imagine trying to engineer a plant so that new growths are compactly arranged around the growing point with no wasted space. Suppose you chose to make each new primordium grow out at an angle of two fifths of a revolution from the previous growth. You would have the problem of every fifth primordium growing from the same spot and in the same direction. They would form rows with wasted space between the rows. The truth is, any simple fraction of a revolution results in rows rather than optimal packing. Only what has been termed the “golden angle” of approximately 137.5 degrees results in an ideally compact arrangement of growths.

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250px-Leave.png
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What makes this angle so special?

The golden angle is ideal because it cannot be expressed as a simple fraction of a revolution. The fraction 5/8 is close to it, 8/13 is closer, and 13/21 is closer still, but no fraction exactly expresses the golden proportion of a revolution. Thus, when a new growth on the meristem develops at this fixed angle with respect to the preceding growth, no two growths will ever develop in exactly the same direction. Consequently, instead of forming radial arms, the primordia form spirals.

Remarkably, a computer simulation of primordia growing from a central point produces recognizable spirals only if the angle between new growths is correct to a high degree of accuracy. Straying from the golden angle by even one tenth of a degree causes the effect to be lost.

How Many Petals on a Flower?

Interestingly, the number of spirals that result from growth based on the golden angle is usually a number from a series called the Fibonacci sequence. This series was first described by the 13th-century Italian mathematician known as Leonardo Fibonacci. In this progression, each number after 1 is equal to the sum of the previous two numbers—1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, and so on.

The flowers of many plants that exhibit a spiral growth pattern often have a Fibonacci number of petals. According to some observers, there is a tendency for buttercups to have 5 petals, bloodroots 8, fireweeds 13, asters 21, common field daisies 34, and Michaelmas daisies 55 or 89. Fruit and vegetables often have features that correspond to Fibonacci numbers.

Information from Intriguing Patterns in Plants — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

What else features Fibonacci spirals?

images
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And even in the design of the human body........


Can this all possibly be accidental?
Perhaps Fibonacci is the creator!!
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
*falls off chair laughing, spewing coffee everywhere*

What is it about Fibonacci numbers that gets people's juices flowing? When I saw the thread, my instantaneous reactions was, "Oh, god, here we go again." I was not disappointed. I'm just fascinated why people with low math skills are fascinated by Fibonacci numbers. I wonder if it is because they are predictable?
They seem complex and orderly, I guess.

Physical matter "tries" to lower its potential energy as much as possible.

In physics terms, the OP is pretty much like arguing "this water pooled in an interesting way when it flowed downhill! Guess it was God that did it and not gravity."
 

Mohsen

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Richard Dawkins claimed the "design" apparent in the universe and even our own planet and the naturally occurring things within such as the OP mentions, are just "illusions of design".

That's like me calling an horse a donkey, when the whole world sees a horse! It won't work!

Atheists have always been a minority, and most likely always will be a minority. Science was not invented by Atheists. the scientific method was not invented nor was the philosophy of science perfected by atheists.

Science can't explain:

Consciousness
Origins of the Universe
Fine Tuning of the Universe (this includes the Golden Ratio which is also the premise of this thread)
Objective Morality
Innate Disposition to know God exists


None of these can be proven via science.

In fact, science doesn't actually ask "WHY" does it? Nope. It only asks "HOW". Even a 2 year old has the better sense to know truth and thus inquires as to WHY before the child asks HOW, This is because a child is honest in its pursuit of truth - whereas that modern atheist scientist is favouring his own narrative, which is intellectually dishonest. All an honest atheist can really infer scientifically, is the statement that he does not know.

I find the hubris of the atheist in his inability to reason even the logic behind Pascals Wager. Which is why, I can only feel sorry for the moronic pseudo-intellectual pursuit of the atheist who thinks it is only he who can do science. No offence intended, but my annoyance is in the fact that atheists are ardent opposers of any explanation which doesn't "appeal" to their bias. Like I said, objectivity is hardly their pursuit, subjectivity is - and axiomatic idiosyncrasies will forever be their embarrassment!

Peace
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
When do coincidences go beyond what is reasonable and into the realms of the ridiculous? The Creator is the greatest mathematician in existence. This is what I expect to see when there is clearly "design" everywhere we look.....even the galaxies are spirals. How many examples will you just brush off as coincidental? The Creator's 'stamp' is on everything.
Seems your god forgot about designing PI to make it look like anything but a hodgepodge of numbers.

3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286 208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128481 117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233 786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006 606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146 951941511609433057270365759591953092186117381932611793105118548074462379962749 567351885752724891227938183011949129833673362440656643086021394946395224737190 702179860943702770539217176293176752384674818467669405132000568127145263560827 785771342757789609173637178721468440901224953430146549585371050792279689258923 542019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998372978049 951059731732816096318595024459455346908302642522308253344685035261931188171010 003137838752886587533208381420617177669147303598253490428755468731159562863882 353787593751957781857780532171226806613001927876611195909216420198938095257201 065485863278865936153381827968230301952035301852968995773622599413891249721775 283479131515574857242454150695950829533116861727855889075098381754637464939319 255060400927701671139009848824012858361603563707660104710181942955596198946767 837449448255379774726847104047534646208046684259069491293313677028989152104752 162056966024058038150193511253382430035587640247496473263914199272604269922796 782354781636009341721641219924586315030286182974555706749838505494588586926995 690927210797509302955321165344987202755960236480665499119881834797753566369807 426542527862551818417574672890977772793800081647060016145249192173217214772350 141441973568548161361157352552133475741849468438523323907394143334547762416862 518983569485562099219222184272550254256887671790494601653466804988627232791786 085784383827967976681454100953883786360950680064225125205117392984896084128488 626945604241965285022210661186306744278622039194945047123713786960956364371917 287467764657573962413890865832645995813390478027590099465764078951269468398352 595709825822620522489407726719478268482601476990902640136394437455305068203496 252451749399651431429809190659250937221696461515709858387410597885959772975498 930161753928468138268683868942774155991855925245953959431049972524680845987273 644695848653836736222626099124608051243884390451244136549762780797715691435997 700129616089441694868555848406353422072225828488648158456028506016842739452267 467678895252138522549954666727823986456596116354886230577456498035593634568174 324112515076069479451096596094025228879710893145669136867228748940560101503308 617928680920874760917824938589009714909675985261365549781893129784821682998948 722658804857564014270477555132379641451523746234364542858444795265867821051141 354735739523113427166102135969536231442952484937187110145765403590279934403742 007310578539062198387447808478489683321445713868751943506430218453191048481005 370614680674919278191197939952061419663428754440643745123718192179998391015919 561814675142691239748940907186494231961567945208095146550225231603881930142093 762137855956638937787083039069792077346722182562599661501421503068038447734549 202605414665925201497442850732518666002132434088190710486331734649651453905796 268561005508106658796998163574736384052571459102897064140110971206280439039759 515677157700420337869936007230558763176359421873125147120532928191826186125867 321579198414848829164470609575270695722091756711672291098169091528017350671274 858322287183520935396572512108357915136988209144421006751033467110314126711136 990865851639831501970165151168517143765761835155650884909989859982387345528331 635507647918535893226185489632132933089857064204675259070915481416549859461637 180270981994309924488957571282890592323326097299712084433573265489382391193259 746366730583604142813883032038249037589852437441702913276561809377344403070746 9211201913020330380197621101100449293215160842444859637669838952286847 . . . . . . . .

And Euler's number


2.71828 18284 59045 23536 02874 71352 66249 77572 47093 69995 95749 66967 62772 40766 30353 54759 45713 82178 52516 64274 27466 39193 20030 59921 81741 35966 29043 57290 03342 95260 59563 07381 32328 62794 34907 63233 82988 07531 95251 01901 15738 34187 93070 21540 89149 93488 41675 09244 76146 06680 82264 80016 84774 11853 74234 54424 37107 53907 77449 92069 55170 27618 38606 26133 13845 83000 75204 49338 26560 29760 67371 13200 70932 87091 27443 74704 72306 96977 20931 01416 92836 81902 55151 08657 46377 21112 52389 78442 50569 53696 77078 54499 69967 94686 44549 05987 93163 68892 30098 79312 77361 78215 42499 92295 76351 48220 82698 95193 66803 31825 28869 39849 64651 05820 93923 98294 88793 32036 25094 43117 30123 81970 68416 14039 70198 37679 32068 32823 76464 80429 53118 02328 78250 98194 55815 30175 67173 61332 06981 12509 96181 88159 30416 90351 59888 85193 45807 27386 67385 89422 87922 84998 92086 80582 57492 79610 48419 84443 63463 24496 84875 60233 62482 70419 78623 20900 21609 90235 30436 99418 49146 31409 34317 38143 64054 62531 52096 18369 08887 07016 76839 64243 78140 59271 45635 49061 30310 72085 10383 75051 01157 47704 17189 86106 87396 96552 12671 54688 95703 50354 02123 40784 98193 34321 06817 01210 05627 88023 51930 33224 74501 58539 04730 41995 77770 93503 66041 69973 29725 08868 76966 40355 57071 62268 44716 25607 98826 51787 13419 51246 65201 03059 21236 67719 43252 78675 39855 89448 96970 96409 75459 18569 56380 23637 01621 12047 74272 28364 89613 42251 64450 78182 44235 29486 36372 14174 02388 93441 24796 35743 70263 75529 44483 37998 01612 54922 78509 25778 25620 92622 64832 62779 33386 56648 16277 25164 01910 59004 91644 99828 93150 56604 72580 27786 31864 15519 56532 44258 69829 46959 30801 91529 87211 72556 34754 63964 47910 14590 40905 86298 49679 12874 06870 50489 58586 71747 98546 67757 57320 56812 88459 20541 33405 39220 00113 78630 09455 60688 16674 00169 84205 58040 33637 95376 45203 04024 32256 61352 78369 51177 88386 38744 39662 53224 98506 54995 88623 42818 99707 73327 61717 83928 03494 65014 34558 89707 19425 86398 77275 47109 62953 74152 11151 36835 06275 26023 26484 72870 39207 64310 05958 41166 12054 52970 30236 47254 92966 69381 15137 32275 36450 98889 03136 02057 24817 65851 18063 03644 28123 14965 50704 75102 54465 01172 72115 55194 86685 08003 68532 28183 15219 60037 35625 27944 95158 28418 82947 87610 85263 98139 55990 06737 64829 22443 75287 18462 45780 36192 98197 13991 47564 48826 26039 03381 44182 32625 15097 48279 87779 96437 30899 70388 86778 22713 83605 77297 88241 25611 90717 66394 65070 63304 52795 46618 55096 66618 56647 09711 34447 40160 70462 62156 80717 48187 78443 71436 98821 85596 70959 10259 68620 02353 71858 87485 69652 20005 03117 34392 07321 13908 03293 63447 97273 55955 27734 90717 83793 42163 70120 50054 51326 38354 40001 86323 99149 07054 79778 05669 78533 58048 96690 62951 19432 47309 95876 55236 81285 90413 83241 16072 26029 98330 53537 08761 38939 63917 79574 54016 13722 36187 89365 26053 81558 41587 18692 55386 06164 77983 40254 35128 43961 29460 35291 33259 42794 90433 72990 85731 58029 09586 31382 68329 14771 16396 33709 24003 16894 58636 06064 58459 25126 99465 57248 39186 56420 97526 85082 30754 42545 99376 91704 19777 80085 36273 09417 10163 43490 76964 23722 29435 23661 25572 50881 47792 23151 97477 80605 69672 53801 71807 76360 34624 59278 77846 58506 56050 78084 42115 29697 52189 08740 19660 90665 18035 16501 79250 46195 01366 58543 66327 12549 63990 85491 44200 01457 47608 19302 21206 60243 30096 41270 48943 90397 17719 51806 99086 99860 66365 83232 27870 93765 02260 14929 10115 17177 63594 46020 23249 30028 04018 67723 91028 80978 66605 65118 32600 43688 50881 71572 38669 84224 22010 24950 55188 16948 03221 00251 54264 94639 81287 36776 58927 68816 35983 12477 88652 01411 74110 91360 11649 95076 62907 79436 46005 85194 19985 60162 64790 76153 21038 72755 71269 92518 27568 79893 02761 76114 61625 49356 49590 37980 45838 18232 33686 12016 24373 65698 46703 78585 33052 75833 33793 99075 21660 69238 05336 98879 56513 72855 93883 49989 . . . . . . . . . .

And the Golden Ratio


1.61803398874989484820458683436563811772030917980576286213544862270526046281890
244970720720418939113748475408807538689175212663386222353693179318006076672635
443338908659593958290563832266131992829026788067520876689250171169620703222104
321626954862629631361443814975870122034080588795445474924618569536486444924104
432077134494704956584678850987433944221254487706647809158846074998871240076521
705751797883416625624940758906970400028121042762177111777805315317141011704666
599146697987317613560067087480710131795236894275219484353056783002287856997829
778347845878228911097625003026961561700250464338243776486102838312683303724292
675263116533924731671112115881863851331620384005222165791286675294654906811317
159934323597349498509040947621322298101726107059611645629909816290555208524790
352406020172799747175342777592778625619432082750513121815628551222480939471234
145170223735805772786160086883829523045926478780178899219902707769038953219681
986151437803149974110692608867429622675756052317277752035361393621076738937645
560606059216589466759551900400555908950229530942312482355212212415444006470340
565734797663972394949946584578873039623090375033993856210242369025138680414577
995698122445747178034173126453220416397232134044449487302315417676893752103068
737880344170093954409627955898678723209512426893557309704509595684401755519881
921802064052905518934947592600734852282101088194644544222318891319294689622002
301443770269923007803085261180754519288770502109684249362713592518760777884665
836150238913493333122310533923213624319263728910670503399282265263556209029798
642472759772565508615487543574826471814145127000602389016207773224499435308899
909501680328112194320481964387675863314798571911397815397807476150772211750826
945863932045652098969855567814106968372884058746103378105444390943683583581381
131168993855576975484149144534150912954070050194775486163075422641729394680367
319805861833918328599130396072014455950449779212076124785645916160837059498786
006970189409886400764436170933417270919143365013715766011480381430626238051432
117348151005590134561011800790506381421527093085880928757034505078081454588199
063361298279814117453392731208092897279222132980642946878242748740174505540677
875708323731097591511776297844328474790817651809778726841611763250386121129143
683437670235037111633072586988325871033632223810980901211019899176841491751233
134015273384383723450093478604979294599158220125810459823092552872124137043614
910205471855496118087642657651106054588147560443178479858453973128630162544876
114852021706440411166076695059775783257039511087823082710647893902111569. . . . . . .
.
 
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Mohsen

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Seems your god forgot about designing to make it look like anything but a hodgepodge of numbers.

3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286 208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128481 117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233 786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006 606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146 951941511609433057270365759591953092186117381932611793105118548074462379962749 567351885752724891227938183011949129833673362440656643086021394946395224737190 702179860943702770539217176293176752384674818467669405132000568127145263560827 785771342757789609173637178721468440901224953430146549585371050792279689258923 542019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998372978049 951059731732816096318595024459455346908302642522308253344685035261931188171010 003137838752886587533208381420617177669147303598253490428755468731159562863882 353787593751957781857780532171226806613001927876611195909216420198938095257201 065485863278865936153381827968230301952035301852968995773622599413891249721775 283479131515574857242454150695950829533116861727855889075098381754637464939319 255060400927701671139009848824012858361603563707660104710181942955596198946767 837449448255379774726847104047534646208046684259069491293313677028989152104752 162056966024058038150193511253382430035587640247496473263914199272604269922796 782354781636009341721641219924586315030286182974555706749838505494588586926995 690927210797509302955321165344987202755960236480665499119881834797753566369807 426542527862551818417574672890977772793800081647060016145249192173217214772350 141441973568548161361157352552133475741849468438523323907394143334547762416862 518983569485562099219222184272550254256887671790494601653466804988627232791786 085784383827967976681454100953883786360950680064225125205117392984896084128488 626945604241965285022210661186306744278622039194945047123713786960956364371917 287467764657573962413890865832645995813390478027590099465764078951269468398352 595709825822620522489407726719478268482601476990902640136394437455305068203496 252451749399651431429809190659250937221696461515709858387410597885959772975498 930161753928468138268683868942774155991855925245953959431049972524680845987273 644695848653836736222626099124608051243884390451244136549762780797715691435997 700129616089441694868555848406353422072225828488648158456028506016842739452267 467678895252138522549954666727823986456596116354886230577456498035593634568174 324112515076069479451096596094025228879710893145669136867228748940560101503308 617928680920874760917824938589009714909675985261365549781893129784821682998948 722658804857564014270477555132379641451523746234364542858444795265867821051141 354735739523113427166102135969536231442952484937187110145765403590279934403742 007310578539062198387447808478489683321445713868751943506430218453191048481005 370614680674919278191197939952061419663428754440643745123718192179998391015919 561814675142691239748940907186494231961567945208095146550225231603881930142093 762137855956638937787083039069792077346722182562599661501421503068038447734549 202605414665925201497442850732518666002132434088190710486331734649651453905796 268561005508106658796998163574736384052571459102897064140110971206280439039759 515677157700420337869936007230558763176359421873125147120532928191826186125867 321579198414848829164470609575270695722091756711672291098169091528017350671274 858322287183520935396572512108357915136988209144421006751033467110314126711136 990865851639831501970165151168517143765761835155650884909989859982387345528331 635507647918535893226185489632132933089857064204675259070915481416549859461637 180270981994309924488957571282890592323326097299712084433573265489382391193259 746366730583604142813883032038249037589852437441702913276561809377344403070746 9211201913020330380197621101100449293215160842444859637669838952286847 . . . . . . . .

And Euler's number


2.71828 18284 59045 23536 02874 71352 66249 77572 47093 69995 95749 66967 62772 40766 30353 54759 45713 82178 52516 64274 27466 39193 20030 59921 81741 35966 29043 57290 03342 95260 59563 07381 32328 62794 34907 63233 82988 07531 95251 01901 15738 34187 93070 21540 89149 93488 41675 09244 76146 06680 82264 80016 84774 11853 74234 54424 37107 53907 77449 92069 55170 27618 38606 26133 13845 83000 75204 49338 26560 29760 67371 13200 70932 87091 27443 74704 72306 96977 20931 01416 92836 81902 55151 08657 46377 21112 52389 78442 50569 53696 77078 54499 69967 94686 44549 05987 93163 68892 30098 79312 77361 78215 42499 92295 76351 48220 82698 95193 66803 31825 28869 39849 64651 05820 93923 98294 88793 32036 25094 43117 30123 81970 68416 14039 70198 37679 32068 32823 76464 80429 53118 02328 78250 98194 55815 30175 67173 61332 06981 12509 96181 88159 30416 90351 59888 85193 45807 27386 67385 89422 87922 84998 92086 80582 57492 79610 48419 84443 63463 24496 84875 60233 62482 70419 78623 20900 21609 90235 30436 99418 49146 31409 34317 38143 64054 62531 52096 18369 08887 07016 76839 64243 78140 59271 45635 49061 30310 72085 10383 75051 01157 47704 17189 86106 87396 96552 12671 54688 95703 50354 02123 40784 98193 34321 06817 01210 05627 88023 51930 33224 74501 58539 04730 41995 77770 93503 66041 69973 29725 08868 76966 40355 57071 62268 44716 25607 98826 51787 13419 51246 65201 03059 21236 67719 43252 78675 39855 89448 96970 96409 75459 18569 56380 23637 01621 12047 74272 28364 89613 42251 64450 78182 44235 29486 36372 14174 02388 93441 24796 35743 70263 75529 44483 37998 01612 54922 78509 25778 25620 92622 64832 62779 33386 56648 16277 25164 01910 59004 91644 99828 93150 56604 72580 27786 31864 15519 56532 44258 69829 46959 30801 91529 87211 72556 34754 63964 47910 14590 40905 86298 49679 12874 06870 50489 58586 71747 98546 67757 57320 56812 88459 20541 33405 39220 00113 78630 09455 60688 16674 00169 84205 58040 33637 95376 45203 04024 32256 61352 78369 51177 88386 38744 39662 53224 98506 54995 88623 42818 99707 73327 61717 83928 03494 65014 34558 89707 19425 86398 77275 47109 62953 74152 11151 36835 06275 26023 26484 72870 39207 64310 05958 41166 12054 52970 30236 47254 92966 69381 15137 32275 36450 98889 03136 02057 24817 65851 18063 03644 28123 14965 50704 75102 54465 01172 72115 55194 86685 08003 68532 28183 15219 60037 35625 27944 95158 28418 82947 87610 85263 98139 55990 06737 64829 22443 75287 18462 45780 36192 98197 13991 47564 48826 26039 03381 44182 32625 15097 48279 87779 96437 30899 70388 86778 22713 83605 77297 88241 25611 90717 66394 65070 63304 52795 46618 55096 66618 56647 09711 34447 40160 70462 62156 80717 48187 78443 71436 98821 85596 70959 10259 68620 02353 71858 87485 69652 20005 03117 34392 07321 13908 03293 63447 97273 55955 27734 90717 83793 42163 70120 50054 51326 38354 40001 86323 99149 07054 79778 05669 78533 58048 96690 62951 19432 47309 95876 55236 81285 90413 83241 16072 26029 98330 53537 08761 38939 63917 79574 54016 13722 36187 89365 26053 81558 41587 18692 55386 06164 77983 40254 35128 43961 29460 35291 33259 42794 90433 72990 85731 58029 09586 31382 68329 14771 16396 33709 24003 16894 58636 06064 58459 25126 99465 57248 39186 56420 97526 85082 30754 42545 99376 91704 19777 80085 36273 09417 10163 43490 76964 23722 29435 23661 25572 50881 47792 23151 97477 80605 69672 53801 71807 76360 34624 59278 77846 58506 56050 78084 42115 29697 52189 08740 19660 90665 18035 16501 79250 46195 01366 58543 66327 12549 63990 85491 44200 01457 47608 19302 21206 60243 30096 41270 48943 90397 17719 51806 99086 99860 66365 83232 27870 93765 02260 14929 10115 17177 63594 46020 23249 30028 04018 67723 91028 80978 66605 65118 32600 43688 50881 71572 38669 84224 22010 24950 55188 16948 03221 00251 54264 94639 81287 36776 58927 68816 35983 12477 88652 01411 74110 91360 11649 95076 62907 79436 46005 85194 19985 60162 64790 76153 21038 72755 71269 92518 27568 79893 02761 76114 61625 49356 49590 37980 45838 18232 33686 12016 24373 65698 46703 78585 33052 75833 33793 99075 21660 69238 05336 98879 56513 72855 93883 49989 . . . . . . . . . .

And the Golden Ratio


1.61803398874989484820458683436563811772030917980576286213544862270526046281890
244970720720418939113748475408807538689175212663386222353693179318006076672635
443338908659593958290563832266131992829026788067520876689250171169620703222104
321626954862629631361443814975870122034080588795445474924618569536486444924104
432077134494704956584678850987433944221254487706647809158846074998871240076521
705751797883416625624940758906970400028121042762177111777805315317141011704666
599146697987317613560067087480710131795236894275219484353056783002287856997829
778347845878228911097625003026961561700250464338243776486102838312683303724292
675263116533924731671112115881863851331620384005222165791286675294654906811317
159934323597349498509040947621322298101726107059611645629909816290555208524790
352406020172799747175342777592778625619432082750513121815628551222480939471234
145170223735805772786160086883829523045926478780178899219902707769038953219681
986151437803149974110692608867429622675756052317277752035361393621076738937645
560606059216589466759551900400555908950229530942312482355212212415444006470340
565734797663972394949946584578873039623090375033993856210242369025138680414577
995698122445747178034173126453220416397232134044449487302315417676893752103068
737880344170093954409627955898678723209512426893557309704509595684401755519881
921802064052905518934947592600734852282101088194644544222318891319294689622002
301443770269923007803085261180754519288770502109684249362713592518760777884665
836150238913493333122310533923213624319263728910670503399282265263556209029798
642472759772565508615487543574826471814145127000602389016207773224499435308899
909501680328112194320481964387675863314798571911397815397807476150772211750826
945863932045652098969855567814106968372884058746103378105444390943683583581381
131168993855576975484149144534150912954070050194775486163075422641729394680367
319805861833918328599130396072014455950449779212076124785645916160837059498786
006970189409886400764436170933417270919143365013715766011480381430626238051432
117348151005590134561011800790506381421527093085880928757034505078081454588199
063361298279814117453392731208092897279222132980642946878242748740174505540677
875708323731097591511776297844328474790817651809778726841611763250386121129143
683437670235037111633072586988325871033632223810980901211019899176841491751233
134015273384383723450093478604979294599158220125810459823092552872124137043614
910205471855496118087642657651106054588147560443178479858453973128630162544876
114852021706440411166076695059775783257039511087823082710647893902111569. . . . . . .
.
well, you're definitely not seeing the matrix :D
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
HAVE you ever noticed that many plants grow in spiral formations? A pineapple, for example, may have 8 spirals of scales going around one way and 5 or 13 going in the opposite direction.
images


If you look at the seeds in a sunflower, you may be able to see 55 and 89 spirals crossing over each other or perhaps even more. You may even find spirals on a cauliflower.

images
images


Once you start noticing spirals, visits to your fruit and vegetable store may take on new interest. Why do plants grow in this way? Does the number of spirals have any significance?

How Do Plants Grow?

Most plants form new organs such as stems, leaves, and flowers from a tiny central growing point called a meristem. Each new structure, called a primordium, develops and grows out from the center in a new direction, forming an angle with the previous growth. (Curiously, the sunflower is unusual in that the florets that become seeds begin to form spirals from the rim of the head rather than the center.) Most plants arrange new growths at a unique angle that produces spirals. What angle is it?

Consider this challenge: Imagine trying to engineer a plant so that new growths are compactly arranged around the growing point with no wasted space. Suppose you chose to make each new primordium grow out at an angle of two fifths of a revolution from the previous growth. You would have the problem of every fifth primordium growing from the same spot and in the same direction. They would form rows with wasted space between the rows. The truth is, any simple fraction of a revolution results in rows rather than optimal packing. Only what has been termed the “golden angle” of approximately 137.5 degrees results in an ideally compact arrangement of growths.

images
images
images
images
images
images
250px-Leave.png
images


What makes this angle so special?

The golden angle is ideal because it cannot be expressed as a simple fraction of a revolution. The fraction 5/8 is close to it, 8/13 is closer, and 13/21 is closer still, but no fraction exactly expresses the golden proportion of a revolution. Thus, when a new growth on the meristem develops at this fixed angle with respect to the preceding growth, no two growths will ever develop in exactly the same direction. Consequently, instead of forming radial arms, the primordia form spirals.

Remarkably, a computer simulation of primordia growing from a central point produces recognizable spirals only if the angle between new growths is correct to a high degree of accuracy. Straying from the golden angle by even one tenth of a degree causes the effect to be lost.

How Many Petals on a Flower?

Interestingly, the number of spirals that result from growth based on the golden angle is usually a number from a series called the Fibonacci sequence. This series was first described by the 13th-century Italian mathematician known as Leonardo Fibonacci. In this progression, each number after 1 is equal to the sum of the previous two numbers—1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, and so on.

The flowers of many plants that exhibit a spiral growth pattern often have a Fibonacci number of petals. According to some observers, there is a tendency for buttercups to have 5 petals, bloodroots 8, fireweeds 13, asters 21, common field daisies 34, and Michaelmas daisies 55 or 89. Fruit and vegetables often have features that correspond to Fibonacci numbers.

Information from Intriguing Patterns in Plants — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

What else features Fibonacci spirals?

images
images


And even in the design of the human body........


Can this all possibly be accidental?
I would apply fractal mathematics, not intelligent design.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
That's because all you are seeing is randomness without meaning.
Some of us just don't see your meaning as all that meaningful. It's like getting excited over the hexagonal packing of bee hive cells.

depositphotos_21809313-stock-photo-close-up-view-of-the.jpg


"WOW! are those bees ever smart."

"Nah, it was god who taught them to do that, which is still a WOW!
"

Unfortunately---or fortunately, depending on how one looks at it---there's a much more mundane explanation: physics.



.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Richard Dawkins claimed the "design" apparent in the universe and even our own planet and the naturally occurring things within such as the OP mentions, are just "illusions of design".

That's like me calling an horse a donkey, when the whole world sees a horse! It won't work!

I don't doubt your sincerity, but still, that is not a fair comparison.

As I said elsewhere, nature has such a tendency to self-organize. Some people tend to attribute it to a divine intent, but that is a matter of personal inclination, not of objective fact.

Atheists have always been a minority, and most likely always will be a minority. Science was not invented by Atheists. the scientific method was not invented nor was the philosophy of science perfected by atheists.
That may or may not be true - personally, I think you are badly underestimating the wide appeal of atheism and its ultimate lack of meaning and drawbacks - but either way, science does not benefit from theism either.

Above all, scientific knowledge is by nature and necessity very much indifferent to theism and deities.

Science can't explain:

Consciousness


Wrong. Psychology, biology and neurology exist.

Origins of the Universe

Wrong. Cosmology exists.

Fine Tuning of the Universe (this includes the Golden Ratio which is also the premise of this thread)

Wrong. Fine tuning is an immaterial legend with no support in facts.


Objective Morality

Wrong. Utilitarianism exists.

Innate Disposition to know God exists

That is neither universal (quite far from it really), nor particularly remarkable, nor all that difficult to explain. Neurology and psychology have already gone a long way there.

None of these can be proven via science.

Science proves nothing, but evidences and explains much.

In fact, science doesn't actually ask "WHY" does it? Nope. It only asks "HOW".

Indeed. That is why it is of so much worth and use.

Even a 2 year old has the better sense to know truth and thus inquires as to WHY before the child asks HOW, This is because a child is honest in its pursuit of truth - whereas that modern atheist scientist is favouring his own narrative, which is intellectually dishonest. All an honest atheist can really infer scientifically, is the statement that he does not know.

I find the hubris of the atheist in his inability to reason even the logic behind Pascals Wager. Which is why, I can only feel sorry for the moronic pseudo-intellectual pursuit of the atheist who thinks it is only he who can do science. No offence intended, but my annoyance is in the fact that atheists are ardent opposers of any explanation which doesn't "appeal" to their bias. Like I said, objectivity is hardly their pursuit, subjectivity is - and axiomatic idiosyncrasies will forever be their embarrassment!

Peace

You value theism a lot more than I can see any sense to. Your prerrogative, but not much in the way of an argument for convincing others.

As for Pascal's Wager, it is very disrespectful towards theism and can not be taken seriously except as a rude joke.
 

Mohsen

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
I was gonna reply to Luis Dantas' excuses, but that would have gone circular real quick, so instead I decided to reply to your post as it does have a good inferrable premise

Some of us just don't see your meaning as all that meaningful. It's like getting all excited over the hexagonal packing of bee hive cells.

depositphotos_21809313-stock-photo-close-up-view-of-the.jpg


"WOW! are those bees ever smart."

"Nah, it was god who taught them to do that, which is still a WOW!
"

Unfortunately---or fortunately, depending on how one looks at it---there's a much more mundane explanation: physics.



.

Before youtube... there was the Qur'an:

(Qur'an 16:68/69) And your Lord inspired to the bee, "Take for yourself among the mountains, houses, and among the trees and [in] that which they construct. Then eat from all the fruits and follow the ways of your Lord laid down [for you]." There emerges from their bellies a drink, varying in colors, in which there is healing for people. Indeed in that is a sign for a people who give thought.

Transliteration of the Arabic in the Qur'an:

68: Waawha rabbuka ila alnnahli ani ittakhithee mina aljibali buyootan wamina alshshajari wamimmaya aarishoona
69: Thumma kulee min kulli alththamarati fa'uslukee subula rabbiki thululan yakhruju min butooniha sharabun mukhtalifun alwanuhu feehi shifaon lilnnasi inna fee thalika laayatan liqawmin yatafakkaroona


For the word "eat": "Kulli" is for females; "Kul" is for males. The Quran used "Kulli" (females).

For the word "follow a path": "Uslukee" is for females; "Usluk" is for males. The Quran used "Uslukee" (females).

For the word "their bellies": "butooniha" is for females; "butoonihim" is for males. The Quran used "butooniha" (females).

How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that those honey making bees are females?

The worker bees, those who gather pollen and make the honey, are actually all females. The male bees do not make honey. This was only known recently. However 1400 years ago the Qu'ran refers to bees that generate the honey as females (the Arabic grammar is in the female mode)...

The profundity is in knowing this information couldn't have been known by mankind at this point in history, we have to assume that this was revealed by an higher being - the amazing thing is that the book itself claims it is revelation from the Creator of all things, whom we call God in English. Thus, when we see hexagonal patterns in nature and know these also align perfectly with the golden ratio, we must understand that this is a signature of God, just one. Out of many. It is up to us, the intelligent creation of God, to work the rest out! I've over simplified this understanding for the sake of keeping this thread light and not too heavy on some of our members. And also, because I like to keep things relevant and interesting.

Peace
 
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