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Amazing Fibonacci Numbers

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
HAVE you ever noticed that many plants grow in spiral formations? A pineapple, for example, may have 8 spirals of scales going around one way and 5 or 13 going in the opposite direction.
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If you look at the seeds in a sunflower, you may be able to see 55 and 89 spirals crossing over each other or perhaps even more. You may even find spirals on a cauliflower.

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Once you start noticing spirals, visits to your fruit and vegetable store may take on new interest. Why do plants grow in this way? Does the number of spirals have any significance?

How Do Plants Grow?

Most plants form new organs such as stems, leaves, and flowers from a tiny central growing point called a meristem. Each new structure, called a primordium, develops and grows out from the center in a new direction, forming an angle with the previous growth. (Curiously, the sunflower is unusual in that the florets that become seeds begin to form spirals from the rim of the head rather than the center.) Most plants arrange new growths at a unique angle that produces spirals. What angle is it?

Consider this challenge: Imagine trying to engineer a plant so that new growths are compactly arranged around the growing point with no wasted space. Suppose you chose to make each new primordium grow out at an angle of two fifths of a revolution from the previous growth. You would have the problem of every fifth primordium growing from the same spot and in the same direction. They would form rows with wasted space between the rows. The truth is, any simple fraction of a revolution results in rows rather than optimal packing. Only what has been termed the “golden angle” of approximately 137.5 degrees results in an ideally compact arrangement of growths.

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What makes this angle so special?

The golden angle is ideal because it cannot be expressed as a simple fraction of a revolution. The fraction 5/8 is close to it, 8/13 is closer, and 13/21 is closer still, but no fraction exactly expresses the golden proportion of a revolution. Thus, when a new growth on the meristem develops at this fixed angle with respect to the preceding growth, no two growths will ever develop in exactly the same direction. Consequently, instead of forming radial arms, the primordia form spirals.

Remarkably, a computer simulation of primordia growing from a central point produces recognizable spirals only if the angle between new growths is correct to a high degree of accuracy. Straying from the golden angle by even one tenth of a degree causes the effect to be lost.

How Many Petals on a Flower?

Interestingly, the number of spirals that result from growth based on the golden angle is usually a number from a series called the Fibonacci sequence. This series was first described by the 13th-century Italian mathematician known as Leonardo Fibonacci. In this progression, each number after 1 is equal to the sum of the previous two numbers—1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, and so on.

The flowers of many plants that exhibit a spiral growth pattern often have a Fibonacci number of petals. According to some observers, there is a tendency for buttercups to have 5 petals, bloodroots 8, fireweeds 13, asters 21, common field daisies 34, and Michaelmas daisies 55 or 89. Fruit and vegetables often have features that correspond to Fibonacci numbers.

Information from Intriguing Patterns in Plants — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

What else features Fibonacci spirals?

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And even in the design of the human body........


Can this all possibly be accidental?
 
Last edited:

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I am being a bit facetious here, but your hurricane pic reminded me of a pic I saved awhile back.

IMG_20161004_233441.jpg


I can't remember the name of that storm but I think it was about a year ago around this time of the year.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Not accidental. The Fibonacci sequence is quite easy to generate. Start with one object. It reproduces to give two. Now suppose that children skip one cycle before reproducing, but then double each generation after that. So, the next generation will have 3=2+1. The next will have 5=3+2, the next 8=5+3. This is the Fibonacci sequence.

This type of growth pattern in common and explains the sequence's prevalence.

Galactic spirals are NOT necessarily Fibonacci spirals, though. That is pure coincidence.

/E: Also, almost every angle will have the properties you mentioned. The golden ratio is very far from being the only irrational number. It is, however, the *easiest* to produce in this way.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Not accidental. The Fibonacci sequence is quite easy to generate. Start with one object. It reproduces to give two. Now suppose that children skip one cycle before reproducing, but then double each generation after that. So, the next generation will have 3=2+1. The next will have 5=3+2, the next 8=5+3. This is the Fibonacci sequence.

This type of growth pattern in common and explains the sequence's prevalence.

Galactic spirals are NOT necessarily Fibonacci spirals, though. That is pure coincidence.

/E: Also, almost every angle will have the properties you mentioned. The golden ratio is very far from being the only irrational number.

When do coincidences go beyond what is reasonable and into the realms of the ridiculous? The Creator is the greatest mathematician in existence. This is what I expect to see when there is clearly "design" everywhere we look.....even the galaxies are spirals. How many examples will you just brush off as coincidental? The Creator's 'stamp' is on everything.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
When do coincidences go beyond what is reasonable and into the realms of the ridiculous? The Creator is the greatest mathematician in existence. This is what I expect to see when there is clearly "design" everywhere we look.....even the galaxies are spirals. How many examples will you just brush off as coincidental? The Creator's 'stamp' is on everything.
Who's to say that this points to an external creator?
It's simply the nature of existence to create these kinds of patterns out of its own, well, nature.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
When do coincidences go beyond what is reasonable and into the realms of the ridiculous? The Creator is the greatest mathematician in existence. This is what I expect to see when there is clearly "design" everywhere we look.....even the galaxies are spirals. How many examples will you just brush off as coincidental? The Creator's 'stamp' is on everything.

Well, when simple, common explnations work, the 'coincidences' are explained in a purely natural way. As I said, the galactic spirals are NOT related to Fibonacci numbers, but are the result of other phenomena. That makes them a coincidence.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
When do coincidences go beyond what is reasonable and into the realms of the ridiculous? The Creator is the greatest mathematician in existence. This is what I expect to see when there is clearly "design" everywhere we look.....even the galaxies are spirals. How many examples will you just brush off as coincidental? The Creator's 'stamp' is on everything.
The only thing unreasonable here is the watchtower and its claims.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
A couple of interesting properties of the Fibonacci sequence:

First, the sequence itself. Start with 1,1. Each new entry is the sum of the two before:

1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,.....

Now, create a new sequence by adding the Fibonacci sequence:

1,1+1=2,1+1+2=4,1+1+2+3=7,1+1+2+3+5=12,1+1+2+3+5+8=20,...
to get

1,2,4,7,12,20,33,54,88,143,232,376,609,986,....

Each of these is one less than one in the Fibonacci sequence!

Next, take any term in the Fibonacci sequence. Multiply it by itself. Then multiply the two terms on either side. The two numbers will always be 1 away from each other.

Example: take 13. 13*13=169. The ones on either side of 13 are 8 and 21. Multiply them to get 168, which is 1 away from 169.

Again: take 233. Then 233*233=54289. The ones on either side: 144 and 377. Multiply them: 54288, which is 1 away from the 54289.

For your edification and enjoyment!
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Can this all possibly be accidental?
Not accidental; just basic physics.

Look at all the examples you gave: crowded structures, with each element exerting force on its neighbours. If the packing arrangement produces a void, an element will get pushed into it. Of course it's going to result in close packing.

It's like shaking a jar of marbles: give the marbles (or seeds, or whatever) the chance to shift around and they'll generally - and naturally - fall to their lowest achievable level of potential energy. This results in a closely packed structure instead of one where the marbles form big, unstable arches over big voids.

If you think this is amazing, watching a concrete vibrator must be a religious experience for you.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
If you think this is amazing, watching a concrete vibrator must be a religious experience for you.
*falls off chair laughing, spewing coffee everywhere*

What is it about Fibonacci numbers that gets people's juices flowing? When I saw the thread, my instantaneous reactions was, "Oh, god, here we go again." I was not disappointed. I'm just fascinated why people with low math skills are fascinated by Fibonacci numbers. I wonder if it is because they are predictable?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
*falls off chair laughing, spewing coffee everywhere*

What is it about Fibonacci numbers that gets people's juices flowing? When I saw the thread, my instantaneous reactions was, "Oh, god, here we go again." I was not disappointed. I'm just fascinated why people with low math skills are fascinated by Fibonacci numbers. I wonder if it is because they are predictable?


There is a math journal called 'The Fibonacci Quarterly', which actually publishes some very good mathematics. The first issues *were* devoted almost exclusively to the Fibonacci sequence, but that is no longer the case.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
What is it about Fibonacci numbers that gets people's juices flowing? When I saw the thread, my instantaneous reactions was, "Oh, god, here we go again." I was not disappointed. I'm just fascinated why people with low math skills are fascinated by Fibonacci numbers. I wonder if it is because they are predictable?
My guess is because it's so easy you don't even need the formula to explain it.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
There is a math journal called 'The Fibonacci Quarterly', which actually publishes some very good mathematics. The first issues *were* devoted almost exclusively to the Fibonacci sequence, but that is no longer the case.
Understood. I wasn't meaning legitimate sources, I was meaning sources that are more new age woo-woo types of drivel. That the Watchtower has climbed on board is just icing on the cake. :)
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
*falls off chair laughing, spewing coffee everywhere*

What is it about Fibonacci numbers that gets people's juices flowing? When I saw the thread, my instantaneous reactions was, "Oh, god, here we go again." I was not disappointed. I'm just fascinated why people with low math skills are fascinated by Fibonacci numbers. I wonder if it is because they are predictable?

There are also all the variants:

Lucas sequence (same rule as Fibonacci sequence, but start with 1,3):

1,3,4,7,11,18,29,47,76,123,199,....

Tribonacci sequence (start with 1,1,1 and add *three* previous to get the next):

1,1,1,3,5,9,17,31,47,....

Etc, etc, etc,
 
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