Am I allowed to be a proud white person?

[Shadow Wolf]

Had your own inner High Sparrow, eh.
He deserves death in wildfire.

That scene was so beautiful.

 

[Revoltingest]

That scene was so beautiful.

Some day I must watch GOT start to finish again.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Some day I must watch GOT start to finish again.

You must.
Are you as confused as I over people failing to realize who Danny really is as I am?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The Jewish dating site isn't racist IMO.
"Jew" isn't a race.
Of course, my point is that a standard applied to
one race is invalid if inapplicable to another.

If people prefer dating & marrying someone of their
own race or culture, then I say more power to them.
Some flavors of racism just aren't condemnation-worthy.

Agreed without reservation.

 

[Revoltingest]

You must.
Are you as confused as I over people failing to realize who Danny really is as I am?

I wasn't surprised that....

Spoiler:

....she became a vicious tyrant.
But I was surprised that the writers did what I wanted, ie, killed her off.

 

[SA Huguenot]

"Whiteness" isn't something to be proud of. It's made up racist caste nonsense.

So you say I should be ashamed of my skin colour?
Dont you realise how racist you are with this statement?

You sound like a racist defender of colonialism and segregation. Your people oppressed the indigenous peoples and profited off of it. You should be ashamed and seek to redress the wrongdoing.

Wait, Now you are generalising to the utmost.
If you say: I am a defender of collonialism because my ancestors came to this country 320 years ago and bought land from the indigenous people after they were persecuted in Europe for being Huguenot and Protestant. I say:The indigenous people were keen in selling land to these Christians who brought peace to the land, preventing genocide amongst the neighbouring tribes rampaging and murdering the other tribes.
This land was sold as security that these White settlers wil provide protection and wealth which was the case.
Then the whole of Africa (exagerated) crossed the crocodile infested Limpopo river and enjoyed the abundance of food produced by these terrible White racists after they ran away from murder, fammine and slavery (which was practiced by the Muslims and Portuguese)
These people from the neighbouring countries are still running away from the exact circumstances their great ancestors ran away from.
Guess what, to come to ? ... You got it, a place of safety where the White Man lives. Do you not find it interesting that the Black Man in South Africa do not migrate to the North?
Or that the Black man in the USA returns to Africa?
No, Never, they want to live here where these "terrible White rubbish racists" created peace and prosperity!

The black South African people have every right to be mad at the whites for what they did to them.

So, for the first time the Black man in South Africa has his own government since 1993, and they have the chance to show the world what the Black man can acchieve, yet corruption, destruction, murder, oppression, poverty, hunger, unemployment, and "blame the whites" is all they have.
Tell me my friend, do you take the Black racist man in Africa as your example of who you are?
No, you cant.
Well, what about those Black people in the USA who are looting, and killing, and burning in the name of Black Lives Matter?
Can I accept that they are an example of who you are?
Well, if this is your mindset, I will understand why you are so hatred against the White man. Because you realise that you cant achieve more than the "White' man did.
Now you need to kill them all, and burn their univercities, schools, public buildings, even their churches in DC, and dont stop there, then destroy all the monuments and statues of these "Whites who did great things.

Your problem my friend, is you dont know how a democracy works.
You saw a White policeman murder a Black man, and you went on a rampage in a country where you know this policeman will be held accountable for his actions.
But no, you have to turn violent and carry on like wild hyienas.
Pal, In Mosambique you will lose your life if a cop asks for a bribe, and no one will know you are missing. You live in beautifull civilised countries, respect the law there.

Be glad you live in the US or Europe.
Obviously you live in a country where there is peace and food.

You'd feel the same if a bunch of black people moved to the Netherlands, stole land that didn't belong to them and then treated the Dutch like non-humans or third-class citizens. How dare you.

Again, I did not steal any land.
The land was stolen from me because my Greats bought this land.
I am almost 60 and never stole from anyone.
How dare you accuse me of being a thief, and then to suggest that the White People in South Africa can be murdered and looted because of your propaganda fed lies.
Anywhay, I am not ashamed for beng white in Africa.
My nation brought prosperity to this continent, and the Black man dont realised the worth of these hands that fed them.
A real racist person I know made the following statement:
"In Africa the fattest Black people lives in South Africa where the "white racist" feeds them".
I distanced myself from such a claim, but cant wonder if this observation is the truth, or because of the truth should be condemned as racist.
What do you say about such a statement. True or false?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am not sure the terms 'Black Pride' or 'White Pride' make much sense but if one is OK, then so must be the other.

If all you want to see from whites is a history of oppression and nothing good then so be it. If the OP person feels pride then so be it.

The problem is that the contexts are completely different, as with gay pride and "straight pride". One is just a hostile reaction to minorities seeking justice and dignity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So you say I should be ashamed of my skin colour?
Dont you realise how racist you are with this statement?

Wait, Now you are generalising to the utmost.
If you say: I am a defender of collonialism because my ancestors came to this country 320 years ago and bought land from the indigenous people after they were persecuted in Europe for being Huguenot and Protestant. I say:The indigenous people were keen in selling land to these Christians who brought peace to the land, preventing genocide amongst the neighbouring tribes rampaging and murdering the other tribes.
This land was sold as security that these White settlers wil provide protection and wealth which was the case.
Then the whole of Africa (exagerated) crossed the crocodile infested Limpopo river and enjoyed the abundance of food produced by these terrible White racists after they ran away from murder, fammine and slavery (which was practiced by the Muslims and Portuguese)
These people from the neighbouring countries are still running away from the exact circumstances their great ancestors ran away from.
Guess what, to come to ? ... You got it, a place of safety where the White Man lives. Do you not find it interesting that the Black Man in South Africa do not migrate to the North?
Or that the Black man in the USA returns to Africa?
No, Never, they want to live here where these "terrible White rubbish racists" created peace and prosperity!

So, for the first time the Black man in South Africa has his own government since 1993, and they have the chance to show the world what the Black man can acchieve, yet corruption, destruction, murder, oppression, poverty, hunger, unemployment, and "blame the whites" is all they have.
Tell me my friend, do you take the Black racist man in Africa as your example of who you are?
No, you cant.
Well, what about those Black people in the USA who are looting, and killing, and burning in the name of Black Lives Matter?
Can I accept that they are an example of who you are?
Well, if this is your mindset, I will understand why you are so hatred against the White man. Because you realise that you cant achieve more than the "White' man did.
Now you need to kill them all, and burn their univercities, schools, public buildings, even their churches in DC, and dont stop there, then destroy all the monuments and statues of these "Whites who did great things.

Your problem my friend, is you dont know how a democracy works.
You saw a White policeman murder a Black man, and you went on a rampage in a country where you know this policeman will be held accountable for his actions.
But no, you have to turn violent and carry on like wild hyienas.
Pal, In Mosambique you will lose your life if a cop asks for a bribe, and no one will know you are missing. You live in beautifull civilised countries, respect the law there.

Be glad you live in the US or Europe.
Obviously you live in a country where there is peace and food.


Again, I did not steal any land.
The land was stolen from me because my Greats bought this land.
I am almost 60 and never stole from anyone.
How dare you accuse me of being a thief, and then to suggest that the White People in South Africa can be murdered and looted because of your propaganda fed lies.
Anywhay, I am not ashamed for beng white in Africa.
My nation brought prosperity to this continent, and the Black man dont realised the worth of these hands that fed them.
A real racist person I know made the following statement:
"In Africa the fattest Black people lives in South Africa where the "white racist" feeds them".
I distanced myself from such a claim, but cant wonder if this observation is the truth, or because of the truth should be condemned as racist.
What do you say about such a statement. True or false?

Stop flying off at the handle, putting words in my mouth that I never said or attribute deeds to me I never did. Who do you think you're talking to? You certainly sound like an entitled racist with your "white man's burden" garbage.

 

[George-ananda]

The problem is that the contexts are completely different, as with gay pride and "straight pride". One is just a hostile reaction to minorities seeking justice and dignity.

I don't think we should take the OP's pride as a hostile reaction to minorities seeking justice and dignity. He seems legitimately proud of their accomplishments, perseverance, bravery, etc..

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't think we should take the OP's pride as a hostile reaction to minorities seeking justice and dignity. He seems legitimately proud of their accomplishments, perseverance, bravery, etc..

The OP sounds like an angry racist with a problem with black people.

 

[George-ananda]

The OP sounds like an angry racist with a problem with black people.

And you really sound angry with white people having pride in their good accomplishments. I say let him have pride in his group's accomplishments, perseverance, bravery, etc. if he wants. Whites are only allowed self-loathing?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And you really sound angry with white people having pride in their good accomplishments. I say let him have pride in his group's accomplishments, perseverance, bravery, etc. if he wants. Whites are only allowed self-loathing?

His pride is akin to Confederate pride and upholding and promoting the narrative of the War of Northern Aggression.

 

[Tambourine]

And you really sound angry with white people having pride in their good accomplishments. I say let him have pride in his group's accomplishments, perseverance, bravery, etc. if he wants. Whites are only allowed self-loathing?

Do you consider it "self loathing" to only be proud of one's own personal achievements, but not the achievements of people who sort of look like myself and have little in common with me apart from their skin color? Why should I be proud of these people's achievements?

 

[George-ananda]

Do you consider it "self loathing" to only be proud of one's own personal achievements, but not the achievements of people who sort of look like myself and have little in common with me apart from their skin color? Why should I be proud of these people's achievements?

I would take it you don't think 'Black Pride' makes any sense either.

 

[Tambourine]

I would take it you don't think 'Black Pride' makes any sense either.

No, I've had people explain it to me and I get it.

Maybe I would understand the Whites if they were actually able to explain why they're so hung up over other people having pride in themselves, but whenever I ask them they just act offended and clam up about it, as if they were unable or unwilling to explain their own thought process behind it.

 

[George-ananda]

No, I've had people explain it to me and I get it.

Maybe I would understand the Whites if they were actually able to explain why they're so hung up over other people having pride in themselves, but whenever I ask them they just act offended and clam up about it, as if they were unable or unwilling to explain their own thought process behind it.

Well, I felt the OP made his case for his 'Pride'. If he wants to feel it, I let him.

 

[Tambourine]

Well, I felt the OP made his case for his 'Pride'. If he wants to feel it, I let him.

Can you point me to where, specifically, he explained why he is proud of being White?

I can't find it in between his very creative characterization of South African history as Black foreigners stealing his land with British help, without even once mentioning slavery or apartheid.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I never said it was static; cultures evolve naturally, but we have different ways of life that are consistent with our overall values. Generally, for example, Far Eastern cultures tend to have values towards communalism, manners, social ritual, whereas European ones and Anglophone ones tend to value individualism. There's plenty of room for change in these vague concepts.

Right. But if I over-emphasise those generalisations, they move from useful shorthand to restrictive and inaccurate forms of racism.

I'm not sure this will help, but let me run with an example from my own experience that has nothing to do with race. Maybe it will communicate where my head is at on this...

My father, and is father before, treat girls VERY different to boys. I got a firm-handshake and a glass of beer when I was about 12. My sister got plonked on their knees and cuddled. It wasn't that they loved one of us less than the other, but they saw part of their job as teaching me to be a man, and being soft simply wasn't manly. I got plenty of good lessons from them, but I also got that very British traditional stiff-upper lip to the point that half the time I don't even know if I'm excited or not.
(sorta joking, but...well...my Grandfather was a Brit from the Midlands who ended up as a Sgt Major in the Australian Army, so I'm sorta not joking too).

They had very particular ideas about the sort of man my sister should marry, and about the sort of role I should play in my family (ie. breadwinner, basically).

So, that's my traditional values, passed to me by my family. If I take them as they are, then they are stagnant values which will die out over time. Instead, I tweaked them based on my life experience, my education, and the future I face, and my daughters face.

I don't have the same sort of set ideas as them about who my daughters should end up with, how their careers should work around their 2.5 kids, or who's fault it must be if the house is dirty (ie. the womans). But some of the kernels of their traditions live with me. There is a way I expect my daughters to be treated. There is an element of self respect they need to carry, to not accept lesser treatment. There were valuable lessons from the traditional culture I was raised in.

There was also dross.

It's always the case.

So...my father had a poor opinion of Aborginals. He saw them as all drunk welfare cheats. He would have been epically upset if my daughter dated an Aboriginal. Whereas I would toss race out of the equation, and be upset if they dated drunk welfare cheats. If my Dad was right, and all Aboriginals actually were drunk welfare cheats, we'd end up in exactly the same place...only that's not how things really are. His views were racist. And if I carried those forwards without challenge, I'd also be racist.

(Sidenote, I once dated a part-Aboriginal girl. She looked white, he had no idea, and he thought she was great, which I found frustrating. I'd find it quite amusing these days, I guess, but I was young and unsure and earnest instead of more confident, old and cynical).

That they were doing just fine? Lol. These cultures have been around for a very long time and didn't need any foreign influence for any reason. No one seems to accuse them of being stagnant or racist.

Meh, still not sure what you mean by 'doing just fine'. Sorry, not trying to be difficult, it just honestly confuses me.
Basically (and this isn't aimed at you, just a general comment) I think we underestimate the complexity and diversity in the Americas before Europeans arrived. But almost any aspect of European life that was present was also present in the Americas. Including war, slavery, and racism. I agree it's a less common accusation.

I don't think any culture really needs foreign influence. Foreign influence occurs...always...and it has impact...always. These impacts can be positive and negative, and always are, but trying to restrict outside influence, or 'protect' culture seems like a fools errand to me. That's not to suggest the impact is always consistent, or uncontrolled, or unmanageable. But I can't think of any society not eventually impacted by outside forces, with a few very rare exceptions in the deep jungles of Brazil or Papua New Guinea.

I'd rather ride the wave, personally, but I have no issue with people who are traditional. As long as their traditions don't impinge on the rights and well being of others. It's somewhat similar to my thoughts on religion.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Can you point me to where, specifically, he explained why he is proud of being White?

I can't find it in between his very creative characterization of South African history as Black foreigners stealing his land with British help, without even once mentioning slavery or apartheid.

I didn't even get a reply when I pointed out some factual discrepancies with his account around independence, etc.
Rightly or wrongly, that sort of stuff always rings alarm bells for me.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I think I'd put it simply as I prefer a salad bowl approach to a melting pot one. That's what I'm trying to get at here.

I like that analogy. Let's not kill diversity.